NOW WHAT?????

[aprofitt0002]

You are right, my friend...there is no substitute for having done something yourself and in the long run that is going to be my labor of love. Blessings, Doc

[aprofitt0002]

Steve, I listened to your advice with the same degree of interest that I gave to the advice that everyone gave me and I appreciate it and I want you to do something for me, promise me that when you do create your first layout you will post it to this site so all of us can take a look at it. I believe you will do it and I have no doubt that it will be far superior to mine!  Doc

[mobilman44]

Hi!

FIrst of all, I'm a strong advocate of "newbies" studying the various Kalmbach books out there before they lay a track or even put a kit together. 

That said, you can read all the books there are, and retain all the information within, but until you do the "layout process" hands on, you really don't know the ins and outs of what is really involved.

 

[NWP SWP]

Just want to point something out, just because I have not built a layout does not render the advice I gave useless, all of it came from the many books about layout building I have read.

[riogrande5761]

aprofitt0002

Just wanted to see if my new avatar came through...this is a test.... Doc

Looks like the avatar worked.  My British wife says photo's are a good thing to put in the windows of the house to scare away burglars! 

[aprofitt0002]

Just wanted to see if my new avatar came through...this is a test.... Doc

[aprofitt0002]

Partly because dad was in stationed in England before he was shot down over France and taken POW by the Germans for 2 1/2 years and we discussed it when I was a boy, and partly because my wife is from Ireland and my ancestry is in Scotland, and partly because she and I watch the PBS show Father Brown which is set in that area of the Cotswolds and it is just plumb beeeutiful, and the Enlgish scale is OO instead of HO. I guess that's about it for reasons. Doc

[UNCLEBUTCH]

Mistakes ???? surely you jest.

There are but a few of us born knowing every thing; But I think those other guys lie

As to my mistakes, well they were someone else's fault

 I was wondering  why OO ??

[aprofitt0002]

Butch, I replied but for some reason, I don't think it went through. I just wanted to say I appreciated you sharing your "misfortunes" over the years. Butch, I look at this as a good thing. I don't regret the way I started with the benchwork even though it's not the proper way. If I hadn't started that way, I wouldn't have been able to meet you and so many others through this thread. At the end of the day, I'll get somewhere but I'll enjoy every step along the way and things will be a lot better since I'll have shared this journey with you and others. Sure I'll make mistakes. I expect to, but I don't look at mistakes as set backs but opportunities to enjoy the hobby even more. And you are right, we learn by making mistakes. The main thing is to make the main thing the main thing and the main thing is to enjoy the trip...my interaction on this site just makes that trip more enjoyable. Doc

[aprofitt0002]

Butch, you have hit the nail square on the head. I look at all of this...the issue of working out benchwork, choosing an area and a scale to model, choosing a layout, and being able to communicate with people like you and the others as being all good. I don't regret starting the way I did. For one thing, it has opened the door for me to get to know a lot of you fellows who I hope to have a continuing relationship with over the years. Butch, it's just all good ole pal...all good...just have to take things that way and see the good even in mistakes. Most things turn out well if you just give them a chance, but I felt good when I read of your own "misfortunes"... sort of let me know everything's OK.  Doc

[aprofitt0002]

I'll take a look at that site Mike. I was partly familiar with the area having seen some things on Rick Steves' England...my wife and I watch some PBS programs set in England and one of them is Father Brown. We both really like the area and the archetecture is beautiful plus, the topography reminds me of central Kentucky. The economy of the area was at one time one of the best wool producing areas in England...we used to raise sheep, goats, cattle, horses, etc before we sold the farm and moved to town (after I fell off the roof of the house and the children said "No more of that!") a couple of years ago. As I said before, dad who was in the Army Air Corps in WWII was stationed in southern England. Dad died in 1998...I still miss him and this sort of gives me a chance to look up and say, dad, this is sort of for you. By the way, I've got friends who live in Wisconsin, in Barneveld...run a Case dealership there. We were close when I was into restoring tractors...good people.  Doc

[UNCLEBUTCH]

Hey Doc, Just want to share my 3cents worth. When I started I did as you;built bench work and layed track.That was before internet. Didn't know about track plans.

The first two layouts didn't las long. Not because of the no plan track plan but of used cheap junk equipment.

Third try; used a published plan, only to find out it wouldn't fit in the space ti said it should.'' Most plans arn't proven, weren't ever built, so must be modified to fit''

Any way I threw that plan aside and layed track. A life change took its toll onthat layout.

Forth try,built bench,layed track, tore some up relayed it moved it ect. Till I had what I liked, and then moved it some more. I found I enjoyed working out the issues in real time.  My trains stayed on the track.I could run laps,switch out the industerys or both at the same time. And I liked the way it looked.

So what did I miss by not useing a plan?

A furnance replacment took out that layout and I'm now rebuilding. My bench is built, and without a plan, I'm laying track.

[mbinsewi]

OOPs!  I thought you were familiar with the area.  I had a good time a couple of mornigs ago, learning about the Cotswolds, through searching and Google satalite images.

It reminds me of the SE. WI. area where I live, except the fields here are square, or rectangle in shape, because of the land surveying and plotting methods used here.

Here's the site where I found the map:

https://visitbytrain.info/cotswolds/index.htm

Mike.

[aprofitt0002]

Riogrande ole settler, you received good advice whoever said it. My books have been shipped from Amazon and when I get them I'm going to do some more study. I did a little background study on The Cotswolds last night. I figure a person has to know something about the region you are modelling as well as the sort of equipment, railroad, archetecture, industries, etc that were around in the era of your layout so I've started boning up on my knowledge of Southwest England...never having been there. I'll stay in touch my friend.  Doc

[aprofitt0002]

Rich, In my previous hobby of tractor restoration I was a member of several forum communities and I've found that, for the most part, good sense and fair play are the rule and not the exception. I've always found that when given the option, grace is most always preferable to justice. I know one thing. I've appreciated all the help I've been given here. I had no idea one shouldn't begin with maximizing one's space for a layout, all I knew was railroad modelling seemed to be just the ticket (pun intended) for me at this stage of my life and I just dived right into it with absolutely no prior knowledge. As I noted above, I now understand more than I did at the beginning and Darlene and I created some more space in the basement and all I have to do now, once I find a layout that suits me and fits the required criteria I can just adjust the benchwork to fit the layout. In my mind, that just adds to the enjoyment of working toward a finished (or never finished) product that is the very best I can create. I do know one final thing, I want to continue to receive help from all of you. I usually take criticism pretty well...after all, I was a pastor for 30 years, not a job for the faint of heart so things will work out fine and I appreciate your spirit my brother.   Doc

[aprofitt0002]

Hey, Rich...I guess the good thing is I'm not "all cocked"...is there an "all cocked?" If there's a half cocked seems like there ought to be an "all cocked" but that's just me I reckon... Doc

[riogrande5761]

richhotrain

The one caveat, though, is that anyone who offers layout building advice ought to acknowledge whether or not he speaks from first hand experience. That caveat ought to apply to everyone on the forum. 

Rich

Rich,

I totally agree.  Contrary to what a few may think, experience is very important and does matter.  Thats a decision making factor for companies hiring employee's too; book knowledge has limits. 

In the layout arena, there is no substitute for hands on experience - most people who have built a layout or two or more, "know" that.

I've been on this forum for quite a few years and there was a long period where I went through a separation and divorce, between jobs, and didn't have space for a layout - or work area to do wood cutting or crafts so even building a small module would have been difficult. 

Then one day I participated in layout discussion and one guy (obviously sensistive to the fact that hands on experience mattered) said "why are you giving advise?  You don't even have a layout".  He stuck a ski boot in his mouth that day because I did have a 10x18' layout I was well into building - my third room sized layout.  But even prior to that I had built two other layouts (one 16x19' in a garage and a 14x25 in a basement) so I commented on what I had experience with - and kept my mouth shut on things I didn't have experience with.

There is an old saying attributed to Abraham Lincoln or Mark Twain: "Better to remain silent and be thought a fool than to speak and to remove all doubt."

[richhotrain]

NWP SWP

I may be inexperienced but I'm not unknowledgable (that's probably not a word) I have spend the past 2 years reading learning gathering information on model railroading, I have spent the past 3 months deeply engrossed in books about layout construction, I was just passing along the knowledge I have. After all this IS a community. 

I don't see a problem with someone who has never built a layout adding his reply to someone else who has never built a layout. The one caveat, though, is that anyone who offers layout building advice ought to acknowledge whether or not he speaks from first hand experience. That caveat ought to apply to everyone on the forum.

Rich

[richhotrain]

NWP SWP

In my inexperienced opinion going off all half cocked is a serious mistake that the OP has already made by building benchwork first 

Half cocked? 

That's a bit harsh, don't ya think?

True, it typically makes more sense to design a track plan with the available space in mind, but I can see situations where the available space dictates the size and shape of the layout. 

I think that it might be half cocked to build the framework for a specific layout without first considering the dimensions, angles, and radii required for successful completion. But, in Doc's case, he knew the amount of available space and so he built a framework to accommodate some sort of layout and then came to the forum for advice, having no idea exactly what to build.

There might be a more deliberate way to approach the layout building issue, but "going off all half cocked"?

Rich

[aprofitt0002]

Doc

[riogrande5761]

aprofitt - happy wife happy life!

Nice she is helping you clean out the basement so more space for the layout. more space = good!  Trains need lots of space to stretch their legs.  Bigger curves too!

[tedtedderson]

aprofitt0002

My wife and I have been cleaning out the basement and I've come up with quite a bit more room...   Doc

I believe this is what dreams are made of. 

 

T e d 

[riogrande5761]

bearman

Rio...huh?

Thats Rio Grande!  

[aprofitt0002]

Now boys...I appreciate any and all help and none of it is forgotten or wasted. My wife and I have been cleaning out the basement and I've come up with quite a bit more room so revising the benchwork will be no issue whatsoever and I know I'll end up doing that, just waiting to get some of those books to check out a plan but it'll get done and I'll learn everything in time and one day, long hence, you'll look back on this and say "I knew him when he was green and ignorant" and I'll have to give all of you the credit for my success! I'll keep in touch and send some pics when there's something worth sending.  Doc

[riogrande5761]

By way of example, here is one early draft scale drawing of my planned layout.  On square is a 6x6 inches or two squares is a foot.  I have only roughed in the major elements at this point - basic track arranement with no sidings or details filled in.  The pencil is lightly drawn to make it easy to erase and edit and it's just a smart phone photo which I tweaked a bit:

Bottom is 27 1/2 feet along the long wall.  Minimum radius is 32 but a lot of the curves are in the 36 to 42 inch range.  Areas with angled lines are walkways with pinch points down to 24" at narrowest.  Top area is walkway from stairs from left to right along outside of layout.  An alternative plan will be to have the layout use the entire 15' space (top to bottom) and use a lift out at the upper left where the stairs enter the basement.

Yard at bottom is now yet fleshed out.  Planning on staging below the yard at bottom.  Click on image to see a bigger one.

Here is my layout progress topic at Atlas Rescue Forum - displays better there:

http://atlasrescueforum.proboards.com/thread/3737/jims-layout-progress?page=3&scrollTo=107647

[cuyama]

NWP SWP

In my inexperienced opinion going off all half cocked is a serious mistake

Concur. That's why, in my humble (but experienced) opinion, it might be better for folks who have never designed any layout to-scale using any tool to refrain from posting their opinions as imperatives.

With some changes to the benchwork, the Original Poster can have a continuous run with no bridge needed. He can also have a yard, turntable, and roundhouse. It’s all a matter of trade-offs in layout design. Not absolutes.

Byron

[NWP SWP]

In my inexperienced opinion going off all half cocked is a serious mistake that the OP has already made by building benchwork first, doc try to come up with a simple once around plan, have 2 sidings one by each station, have a small 4 track yard (can be stub or through),  two or three "industries" (like a dairy farm, distillery, and a freight house) that's it, if it's worth doing, DO IT RIGHT.

Far as a swing gate you want to wire the gate in a way that it completes a circuit so if you accidentally leave it open trains can't go crashing to the floor! You could also make it like a draw bridge the two halves hinge up and block the path of a train.

MOST IMPORTANTLY! 

JOIN A CLUB!

You will gain knowledge and experience that can only be acquired hands on, you will not regret it!

[tedtedderson]

It looks like OO is included.  I used the program and it helped a lot.  You can print your design 1:1 which in my opinion was good "just to see" vs trying to use as a template for track laying, but exciting nonetheless.  A lot faster than using a ruler, compass, slide-rule, abacus, protractor, etc. 

Very useful is that once you have your design on screen the program can tell you the minimum radius of what you designed. 

One thing it won't tell however is if your design will be fun.  

Sure speeds up the process though, imho.  As said earlier, your results may vary. 

https://www.scarm.info/index.php#features

T e d 

[NWP SWP]

I may be inexperienced but I'm not unknowledgable (that's probably not a word) I have spend the past 2 years reading learning gathering information on model railroading, I have spent the past 3 months deeply engrossed in books about layout construction, I was just passing along the knowledge I have. After all this IS a community.