Yard and some industrial leads install - 1/8" underlayment sheet cork with yellow wood glue. Scrap plywood sheets to spread weight evenly. Weights (coffee cans filled with concrete) on top. Overnight dry.
Roadbed install - Midwest cork with yellow wood glue on plywood. Long pieces of scrap 2x4s on straights, many short 2x4s on curves, butted end-to-end to spread weight evenly. Weights on top. Overnight dry.
Roadbed and sheet cork finish - 180 grit belt sander to flatten. Special attention to switch fills. Taper grade changes to lower roadbeds and no roadbeds. Vacuum.
http://www.lkorailroad.com/cork-roadbed-part-iii/
Track install - Dynaflex 230 caulk brown. Scrap lumber to spread weight evenly. Lots of weights on top. Overnight dry.
Worth all the trouble? You bet. How is this for smooth trackwork?
Alan
Freelancing the LK&O Railroad
I use adhesive caulk with foam roadbed. My club layout uses liquid nails with cork roadbed held in place with track nails.
Bear "It's all about having fun."
Try Foam Tack adhesive (Woodland Scenics) it sets up in a shorter time than white glue and is easy to spread,
doctorwayne I'm surprised at the number of track nail users who hammer the nails into place. I've found it easier and faster to simply push them in with pliers. On cork, only half the length of the nail goes into the plywood subroadbed, but even for track laid directly on plywood, the pliers work better for me. Wayne
I'm surprised at the number of track nail users who hammer the nails into place. I've found it easier and faster to simply push them in with pliers. On cork, only half the length of the nail goes into the plywood subroadbed, but even for track laid directly on plywood, the pliers work better for me.
Wayne
With Homasote, I don't hammer the nails or spikes, I can push them in-place with a nail-set I have - that works really well. Sometimes a tap with a small hammer I have will help get them at just the right distance.
With the OSB I use, well, you may have seen some people object to using track nails because they bend a lot. Thats just how hard the stuff is a lot of the time. I also bend a few here and there but that doesn't put me off because I still prefer the control I have over how the track geometry is and I like that the track is secured the instant the nail is driven - no curing or wait time, the centerline is still totally visible so I have the accuracy I prefer. Anyway, no, pliers wouldn't work on the stuff I've bought - too hard. That should make sense I would hope.
Anyway, I know from plenty of experience what works for me and what doesn't. I realize there are folks who like their way and thats fine - the topic was started for the user to consider common methods used and choose for himself.
I do want to point out that just because a lot of people use caulk and pins doesn't mean it's necessarily the "best" way, or what is the latest or most modern thing is necessarily best. I feel that way about spline - it's been all the rage for the past 20 years or so, and sure, it looks exotic and cool but it also looks like a heck of a lot of extra work that really may not be necessary to get good geometry.
Also some have commented on using nails and cork saying it's "old fashioned" as if it's a bad thing. It's not. It's worth considering and trying and up to the hobbyist to decide if they like adhesives with pins or track nails and spikes.
BTW, one reason I still like model train cork is that it is split in the middle and I can lay it right on the center line I draw.
For cork - staple gun - as long as you use the right staples (not too long) it is easy to pop the staples out if you need to move it or dismantle (before ballasting).
I've found the OSB is pretty hard stuff and the staple gun I use I often have to try several times and even then the staple is not really in consistantly that well, often all bent out of shape. It does seem to depend on what type of wood or material you use. I have tried my staple gun but it doesn't like the OSB very well. I don't feel like going out and buying another to see if it works better since track nails have always worked just fine.
For track - nails in predrilled holes - in my opinion, they aren't very visible after weathering track and ballast.
The time I would spend pre-drilling holes isn't worth it to me, I just drive the nail and yes sometimes they bend but inevitably the next on goes in fine.
As far as leaving them in place - I haven't decided if I'm going to - I have painted the track with the nails in and you can definitely still see them so I'll probably pull them out after the ballest is secured with dilulte glue or matte medium.
Rio Grande. The Action Road - Focus 1977-1983
Depends on the area. Also depends on if it is handlaid or flex track.
Flex track is on foam base, with cork or WS foam roadbed, both roadbed and track are held in place with straight pins, like those used when sewing or quilting.
Handlaid segments are on foam base, but with a balsa sub-roadbed, then cork, then ties and rails. On these segments, the cork is glued to the balsa, using liquid nails, then the ties are glued down with wood glue, with rails spiked to the ties. The balsa sub raoadbed is however held in place with the same straight pins, pressed through the cork and balsa into the foam base.
Ricky W.
HO scale Proto-freelancer.
My Railroad rules:
1: It's my railroad, my rules.
2: It's for having fun and enjoyment.
3: Any objections, consult above rules.
riogrande5761Are you enjoying yourself there?
I have the right to remain silent. By posting here I have given up that right and accept that anything I say can and will be used as evidence to critique me.
Water Level Route doctorwayne I'm surprised at the number of track nail users who hammer the nails into place. I've found it easier and faster to simply push them in with pliers. On cork, only half the length of the nail goes into the plywood subroadbed, but even for track laid directly on plywood, the pliers work better for me. Wayne Differences in stregth of plywood? When I used OSB, I too simply pushed nails in with pliers. When I switched to plywood? Not a chance. The nails wouldn't go in, but bent every single time.
Differences in stregth of plywood? When I used OSB, I too simply pushed nails in with pliers. When I switched to plywood? Not a chance. The nails wouldn't go in, but bent every single time.
May also be a difference in the thickness of the outer ply along with the type of glue between plies. Also, if the outer ply is thin you might hit a knot in the next ply.
Paul
riogrande5761 rrinker In the old days - the track nails. Now, caulk. Faster and easier. If I can put an Atlas track nail in instantly to fasten cork down, how can caulk be faster than instant, which has to cure/dry? The old days are still here and nothing wrong with them. Caulk has been around a long time so why wasn't it used in the old days, whatever "old" means? I lay track on a center-line which I draw - and if I put the nail dead on the line, it seems more accurate than having to eyeball where the track is to go, especially if caulk is obscuring it - unless you use translucent caulk. I have never seen the advantage of adhesives to lay track and cork - you have to wait. I am impatient and I'd rather not wait. If I don't like something or need to pull up, I can pull the nails out with needle nose plyers and relay. Again, no waiting. If anyone objects to the nail head on the ties, no problem. After I have applied the ballast and secured it with a dilute glue or matt medium, I can pull them out. Some may complain, hey, I bend a few nails. *shrugs* not a big deal to me - I toss it and move on. Still faster - plain and simple. I can't see the advantage of adhesive; I mean, after it has cured, you site down the rail and see, oh, it dried crooked, funs over. With nails, often all I need to do is push the rail a little one way or the other and it will hold in that position. Again, ballast plus adhesive will hold it permanantly after I am completely satisfied.
rrinker In the old days - the track nails. Now, caulk. Faster and easier.
In the old days - the track nails. Now, caulk. Faster and easier.
If I can put an Atlas track nail in instantly to fasten cork down, how can caulk be faster than instant, which has to cure/dry?
The old days are still here and nothing wrong with them. Caulk has been around a long time so why wasn't it used in the old days, whatever "old" means?
I lay track on a center-line which I draw - and if I put the nail dead on the line, it seems more accurate than having to eyeball where the track is to go, especially if caulk is obscuring it - unless you use translucent caulk.
I have never seen the advantage of adhesives to lay track and cork - you have to wait. I am impatient and I'd rather not wait. If I don't like something or need to pull up, I can pull the nails out with needle nose plyers and relay. Again, no waiting.
If anyone objects to the nail head on the ties, no problem. After I have applied the ballast and secured it with a dilute glue or matt medium, I can pull them out.
Some may complain, hey, I bend a few nails. *shrugs* not a big deal to me - I toss it and move on. Still faster - plain and simple.
I can't see the advantage of adhesive; I mean, after it has cured, you site down the rail and see, oh, it dried crooked, funs over. With nails, often all I need to do is push the rail a little one way or the other and it will hold in that position. Again, ballast plus adhesive will hold it permanantly after I am completely satisfied.
Mike
I glue the cork roadbed down with wood glue.
I use track nails for the track. I predrill the hole slightly smaller than the nail. I then can gently tap the track nail with a hobby hammer and nail set. This allows me to set the nail snug without distorting the track. I also don't bend any nails, but that's secondary. Since the ties are very dark, the black nail head is virtually invisible - to the point that I have trouble finding them all if I have to remove the track.
I am old and stuck in My ways...LOL. Started with brass code 100 and fiber ties hand laid with hundreds of spikes on cork roadbed and Tru-Scale plain milled roadbed for the curves. You could buy at the time milled roadbed for just about any size radius curve and the end result was a true curve. Used tiny finishing nails for that. Wish I could have afforded the ready made Tru-Scale track already ballasted...was the cats meow, for the time. I still use track spikes ME 3/8 in the pre-drilled holes in Atlas flex track, on Homasote and the ballast/cement does the rest.
Take Care!
Frank
Pretty much - I often run a train over new track to test it - but the pins are also still in holding it. I don;t use those big T head pins, the ones I use easily clear except those held up against the inside of the railhead where the flange runs. With the thin layer I spread out with a putty knife, it is somewhat tacky like contact cement, probably because in that thin a layer the surface at least starts to set almost instantly. The track tacks down but you cna still nudge it with a straight edge for straight sections or run one of those various curve gauges through to line up a curve - I have some of the Ribbonrail ones.
--Randy
Modeling the Reading Railroad in the 1950's
Visit my web site at www.readingeastpenn.com for construction updates, DCC Info, and more.
carl425 riogrande5761 I am impatient and I'd rather not wait. If I don't like something or need to pull up, I can pull the nails out with needle nose plyers and relay. Again, no waiting. Maybe if you were more patient you wouldn't need to pull it up?
riogrande5761 I am impatient and I'd rather not wait. If I don't like something or need to pull up, I can pull the nails out with needle nose plyers and relay. Again, no waiting.
Maybe if you were more patient you wouldn't need to pull it up?
Are you enjoying yourself there?
No it takes long enough to build a layout. Why wait for adhesives to cure when you dont have to.
Randy. So you can slap your track down and run trains on it right away while the caulk is drying and it wont shift or move? That stuff must be like contact cement. Anyway, I still like the way Atlas track nails and ME spikes work. I'm getting old and sruck in my ways.
CraigNAnd another idea that I saw someone else use was sliding the rail joiner over the top of the rail to join sections of track and after the caulk dries , remove the rail joiner and use again in a different spot. I want to try that sometime so I don't have any unsightly rail joiners.
Latex caulk and a putty knife for me for both laying track and cork.
Years ago I used a staple gun to lay the cork , but on my current layout i found the latex caulk to be far easier and quicker. I would lay a lot of cork in no time time at all. I did wait for the next day before I sanded the cork with a palm sander. ( that also went fast )
Track laying was only slowed by my soldering of feeders to the bottom of the rail before I laid each section of track. I do not solder rail joiners. and I don't rely on rail joiners to conduct electricity.
And another idea that I saw someone else use was sliding the rail joiner over the top of the rail to join sections of track and after the caulk dries , remove the rail joiner and use again in a different spot. I want to try that sometime so I don't have any unsightly rail joiners.
Craig
Roadbed - contact cement.
Track - latex liquid nails. I lightly sand the bottom of the ties for better adhesion.
At rail joints I use a few Micro Mark track nails (the horror!) for peace of mind.
riogrande5761 Yes, with foam, it is going to limit you to adhesives because nails won't hold that securely to foam. If you plywood or OSB or Homasote, nails work quite well.
Yes, with foam, it is going to limit you to adhesives because nails won't hold that securely to foam. If you plywood or OSB or Homasote, nails work quite well.
Possibly my layout is built on Homosote.
Joe Staten Island West
riogrande5761The old days are still here and nothing wrong with them. Caulk has been around a long time so why wasn't it used in the old days, whatever "old" means?
I'm pretty sure the answer to this is that old school caulk was a pretty different product than the siliconized caulk that people typically use nowadays. The old stuff was often oil based and never really set up. It dried out instead, but only over a period of years. The siliconized caulk that's now used sets up quickly, mostly by reacting with air IIRC, but I am not a caulk chemist.
It's true that track nails give instant gratification -- or, if you're like me, pain in the fingers and maybe some bent track.
Mike Lehman
Urbana, IL
well i march to the beat of a different drummer , for road bed cork i use 1&1/4 inch radiator cork it has contact glue on both sides , on curves just slit it to bend . for yards use sheet cork sprayed with rattel can glue on both sides .
There's no wait - you just keep right on chugging along. By the time you've put down a significant amount of roadbed, the first sections are now set enough to pull the pins and do the track on top of it. And by that time, you've exhausted your spare tiem for the evening so having to wait until the next day to continue is no bother.
ON my old old layout, the 8x12 donut hole one, I ran one of the loops in about an hour, although I was using WS foam roadbed in the rolls for that so basically it was about 3 boxes laid in continuous succession. I didn't notch in for the diverging route of turnouts until the next session - just cut out a notch in the roadbed and pulled it off. Then it was a little more tedious as I fit in all the turnouts before finishing the second loop. Once the turnouts were in place, I filled in the empty space using the long rolls again. As I had the track lines marked, I didn;t even precut anything, I just ran a bead of caulk from oen turnout to the next, started at oen and and stuck the roadbed in place, and when I got to the enxt turnout, laid it down to cut where neded and then pressed it into place. There is no doubt in my mind at all tha tthis is faster than nailing. Even with regular cork. Plus no bouncing materials all over the benchwork while hammering on it. Ditto with the track, maybe even more because you need to be more careful hammering a nail in to track, you really need a nail set to get it below the rail top but not hammer it in hard enough to bend or break the tie. Pulling them out isn't always sucessful, either. I can just slide a putty knife under my track and bring it up undamaged. I suppose I shoudl slavge the track off my old layout even if it's all Atlas flex and I am using Peco on the new layout. At least I should salvage and sell all the turnouts, Atlas Code 83 #4s complete with a wire already soldered on for the frog power.
riogrande5761I am impatient and I'd rather not wait. If I don't like something or need to pull up, I can pull the nails out with needle nose plyers and relay. Again, no waiting.
My table tops are foam, so every thing, track,building, roads ect. is held in place with caulk
joe323 Water Level Route Atlas track nails for both cork and track. ditto
Water Level Route Atlas track nails for both cork and track.
Atlas track nails for both cork and track.
ditto
DITTO DITTO
I use foam road bed and adhesive caulk for adhering both the roadbed and the track. A bead along the center line then an old credit card to spread it out, and then lay some scrap 1 X 4's and bricks on the 1 X 4's for weight and leave eerything alone for a day. The roadbed and the track are laid separately.