If you have a LHS talk to the owner and if he is "hungry" enough you can come to a price agreement on a bulk order. Don't be afraid to walk away if his prices doesn't suit you or if its cheaper on line.
If a shop makes $10.00 on the box and you order 5 or 6 boxes that's still money in his cash register.
A word of warning.
Now I had one shop to try to charge me by the piece for a box of Micro Engineering track that contain 5 pieces for $32.50(Walther's catalog price).He had it added up to around $42.00 by the piece. I tried to explain that $32.50 was for all 5 pieces and said no,that was his price. I smiled and walked out and placed my track order at MBK.
The box of ME track plus three peco switches at full MSRP wasn't a small sum but,he killed the deal by trying to charge me by the piece for the box of ME track.
Larry
Conductor.
Summerset Ry.
"Stay Alert, Don't get hurt Safety First!"
From the various replies, I am drawing the conclusion that I am better off contacting a LHS that discounts rather than a large on large retailer like MN Klein.
Rich
Alton Junction
Water Level Route richhotrain Truth be told, I want to buy and install the Pecos because of the springs. I want to dump all of my Tortoises and Caboose Industries manual ground throws in favor of finger thrown point rails. Rich Is why I switched from Atlas to Peco. I only miss the Atlas pricing when I forget about the additional cost of some sort of mechanism to hold the points. Now, if I wanted to go with machines on all my turnouts, that may be different.
richhotrain Truth be told, I want to buy and install the Pecos because of the springs. I want to dump all of my Tortoises and Caboose Industries manual ground throws in favor of finger thrown point rails. Rich
Truth be told, I want to buy and install the Pecos because of the springs.
I want to dump all of my Tortoises and Caboose Industries manual ground throws in favor of finger thrown point rails.
Is why I switched from Atlas to Peco. I only miss the Atlas pricing when I forget about the additional cost of some sort of mechanism to hold the points. Now, if I wanted to go with machines on all my turnouts, that may be different.
But, there are downsides to powering the turnouts. For one thing, it is no fun crawling under the layout and laying on your back to install a Tortoise. For another thing, you need to install the DPDTs and LEDs on control panels or on the fascia. That means more wiring, more space considerations, etc.
It just is so much simpler and cleaner to flip those point rails with your finger. I first saw this done in a video from a club conducting operations. The notion of flipping points with your finger really caught my attention.
As for manual ground throws, I dislike the look of them and the nuisance of installing them and flipping them.
For me, spring loaded Pecos are the way to go.
P.S. Another positive for Peco over Atlas Custom Line is the footprint of the Peco, 3 inches shorter than the Atlas turnout.
Mike
hon30critter Rich: ATLANTIC CENTRAL PECO is not the most DCC friendly design, That is true for older Peco designs, but the newer ones don't require nearly as much work to make them DCC friendly. The trick is to learn how to identify the newer designs. Peco has used the same nomenclature to label several different designs over time so the only real way to determine what you've got is to look at the bottom of the turnout. The latest designs will have the rails already gapped at the appropriate places with a wire bridging the gap. All you have to do to isolate the frog is clip out the wires crossing the rail gap. They will also have a lead attached to the frog. Older designs will not have any pre-cut gaps in the rails, nor will they have the frog lead. The springs are very easy to remove if you are going to use switch machines. Sheldon - each to his own. I'm not criticizing your choice of Atlas turnouts. Dave
Rich:
ATLANTIC CENTRAL PECO is not the most DCC friendly design,
That is true for older Peco designs, but the newer ones don't require nearly as much work to make them DCC friendly. The trick is to learn how to identify the newer designs. Peco has used the same nomenclature to label several different designs over time so the only real way to determine what you've got is to look at the bottom of the turnout. The latest designs will have the rails already gapped at the appropriate places with a wire bridging the gap. All you have to do to isolate the frog is clip out the wires crossing the rail gap. They will also have a lead attached to the frog. Older designs will not have any pre-cut gaps in the rails, nor will they have the frog lead.
The springs are very easy to remove if you are going to use switch machines.
Sheldon - each to his own. I'm not criticizing your choice of Atlas turnouts.
Dave
I know and understand, but that money you should not have to do all that work.
Sheldon
"One difference between pessimists and optimists is that while pessimists are more often right, optimists have far more fun."
I can promise you, that if you have a local hobby shop not run by a moron, you can knock some coin off the order.
They aren't stupid, they know what they can and cannot do and I'll bet they will give you a deal, espcially if you did it in one shot.
I already talked to my local shop about when I do the around the wall setup in the kids room and he said he would hook me up if I did it in one shot.
I don't lie to him and he isn't stupid, he knows I shop shows, internet sales, ebay, etc and he also knows who almost always has first crack at the sale. If I don't work with him and he doesn't work with me, he won't be there when I need it......
Actually by the way it sounds, I'm lucky to have a good no BS hobby shop to go to anymore. It's not huge and super stocked, but has all the basics plus extras and gets almost anything ordered within 2 days.
Also I get a kick out of him calling manufacturers and telling them to pound sand when they send garbage product and they want him or customer to pay shipping to them when it was garbage out of the box! lol
Disclaimer: This post may contain humor, sarcasm, and/or flatulence.
Michael Mornard
Bringing the North Woods to South Dakota!
Use Central Valley turnout kits. WAY cheaper, easy to build, and since they sell direct I bet they'd give you a discount.
ATLANTIC CENTRALPECO is not the most DCC friendly design,
I'm just a dude with a bad back having a lot of fun with model trains, and finally building a layout!
So I looked it up. The MSRP on 100 pcs of code 83 ATLAS flex is $695. In the "old days" the local dealer would have paid $417 to get that box of track from a local distributor.
MB Klein is selling that box of track for $400, less than what use to be wholesale.
Once again, I will repeat, the middle man has been cut out, margins lowered, you already have an unbelievable "discount"........
And I bet if I do the inflation calculator thing, adjusted for inflation, that flex track is the same price it was in 1979 when I was working in the hobby shop.....
richhotrain ATLANTIC CENTRAL As for turnouts, I would not buy PECO, but that's just me........ Why not, Sheldon? Rich
ATLANTIC CENTRAL As for turnouts, I would not buy PECO, but that's just me........
As for turnouts, I would not buy PECO, but that's just me........
Why not, Sheldon?
Mainly because I don't like the little built in spring in the throw bar.
But also because I am just as happy with ATLAS at a much lower cost.
PECO is not the most DCC friendly design, and those same factors seem to apply in DC as well.
I prefer the isolated frog that can be powered, which I do.
Rich,
Back in the day when we had dozens of LHS in the Detroit area, I remember several which provided club discounts.
It sounds like this is a nice sized order. So, if you find a LHS online which offers club discounts, then start one up .
As you know, clubs come and go.............
Jim
I was in the checkout line at Home Depot when the guy ahead had just completed his order. The amount was $23,000 or something. He seemed impressed and asked if he could get a discount on such a large order and the manager kinda chuckled and responded, "No. We get orders like this every day."
LINK to SNSR Blog
OK, here I am.
First dealers like MB Klein are already buying direct from the manufacturer at the lowest possible price.
You may think your new layout represents a lot of turnouts and flex track, but the last time I was in the actual store at MB Klein, they had ATLAS flex track "stored" out in the sales area - Atlas flex track comes in boxes of 100 pieces that are aprox. 6" x 6" x 36" long. There were two "pallet like" stacks 3' x 3' x 5' tall........or about 12,000 pieces of flex track - 600 scale miles.....
I think they are already getting the lowest price from Atlas, and likely selling at the lowest profitable margin. At that level, a business gains nothing by giving away the profit to you because you want a lot at one time - they are still going to sell that whole stack in a reasonable turnaround time with or without your order......
Margins in this business have already been cut more than 10% compared to decades past - there is a bottom line price, places like Kliens and Trainworld are already there......
I usually buy it a box or two at a time and keep some on hand.....
These are all great responses, and I appreciate them all. I am hoping to hear from anyone who may have bought in bulk and was able to negotiate a further discount than the advertised price. Anyone?
I am awaiting Sheldon's response, as he has had real retail experience. An out of state retailer or online store will save sales tax, which in MD is 6%. I know in the firearms world, Cabella's or Bass Pro Shops (soon to be one in the same) can sell firearms cheaper than the local gun store can buy them from the distributor.
I have no idea if that is the case in MR.
Henry
COB Potomac & Northern
Shenandoah Valley
To me an order of 100 turnouts also means 200 pieces plus of flex track and a lot of cork road bed. This is more than a lot or LHS sell in a quarter yearé or perhaps a year. Getting a dollar a piece profit on this many items should be of interest to a LHS, especially if you have known them a while. You may have to pay in advance.
Ask, the worst answer is no. If you do not ask, what is the answer.
That's why I suggested contacting Crusader Rail. While they are an Internet dealer, it seems to be a family run operation. The owner answers the phone.
CG
Here is where a genuine LHS with an owner behind the counter has it over internet or 800 based sales. Few of those outfits would ever think of giving the person who answers the phone, or who reads the emails (assuming it is not a robot) the authority to negotiate separate deals. They might not even know who to ask since their supervisor likely also lacks the authority. Even at a LHS a person who is just a clerk would not have that authority - for good reason. But at most LHSs the owner is or was the "clerk" (and janitor and book keeper etc etc). If the deal sounds attractive to them they have the authority to say yes, or at least the authority to counter-offer.
Dave Nelson
CentralGulf Let's say the retailer did do that for a customer, who then informs his buddies that he got product X for considerably less than the buddies had to pay. That can breed resentment and cause the retailer to lose more that he gained by giving you a special deal.
Let's say the retailer did do that for a customer, who then informs his buddies that he got product X for considerably less than the buddies had to pay. That can breed resentment and cause the retailer to lose more that he gained by giving you a special deal.
Doughless Or, you can just take money out of the golf budget.....
Or, you can just take money out of the golf budget.....
As mentioned, you can always ask, but consider the following info:
The standard hobby discount to a LHS is 30-40% of MSRP. Large dealers or jobbers can get even bigger discounts for volume(like Trainworld or ModelTrainStuff). Usually you can get 25-30% off through Internet or Mail Order dealers).
I have spent the last 3-5 years building a 'stock pile' of track for a new layout(300 sticks of flex/65 turnouts/62 Tortoise on hand). Lots of money, but spread over time, and taking advantage train show & eBay sales...
Modeling BNSF and Milwaukee Road in SW Wisconsin
Most retailers who will give discounts for quantity purchases say so in their advertising or on line pricing guides.
Some manufacturers will sell direct for for some types of quantity special orders. Bowser and Accurail come to mind in the case of custom road names.
You might also check with Crusader Rail Services. They have good prices and fair shipping rates, but don't currently list Peco products. For that kind of order they may be willing to make a special purchase.
http://crusaderrail.com/
If you're planning on dropping $2,600 on one order fo track i would think that a retailer would work with you on getting a better deal. Perhaps a LHS would do a special order and pass on the savings to help beat MBKlein.
- Douglas
Thanks for the replies so far, guys. All are appreciated.
Let me give you an example of what I define as "bulk".
I am contemplating a large layout that would require just short of 100 turnouts. While the retail price of a Peco Code 83 Insulfrog is $36.99, it can be purchased from MB Klein for $25.99, a considerable discount from the MSRP. However, the total for 100 turnouts would be $2,600. On that basis, wouldn't a retailer be interested in granting a further discount?
It never hurts to ask, but having been in a different retail business, you are looking for the customer that is going to spend drop a chunk of change. Buying a bag of ballast, a bottle of paint or a boxcar doesn't really pay for the lights.