First Design of new layout plan

[DSchmitt]

OP has started a new thread to discuss this design.

http://cs.trains.com/mrr/f/11/t/254173.aspx

 

 

 

 

 

[wickman]

Simple and quite doable. Bet there's going to be terrific scenery.

[SpartanCook]

So guys i wanted to start anew in my attempt to design my layout. Below is the space i am working with.

This area is 149 square feet and i want to build a dog bone style layout so that i dont have to duck under or a movable bridge. I am going to freelance model a scene from the alaska railroad. Most likely looking like turnagain arm headed to seward. I am going to attempt to make the walkway appear to be part of the inlet. Going for scenes like this. 

I am going to run both freight and the large passanger trains on this route. I need a yard, but a pretty small one maybe 4' by 2'. A few small industries. (Oil or mining). A small fishing town. And mountains. Here are the only to configurations i can come up with for benchwork that will allow 26" curves at the end of the dogbone.

I dont like this one since the large area by my tool box i wont be able to reach and walk all the way around.

This one seems like a better use of the space since i will be able to walk around each of the larger areas for the most part. I want one of these large ends of the dogbone to cricle around one of the mountains to wind the mainline from the coast up into the mountains. This is where i will incorporate a few tunnels, a spur for mining, and multiple bridges. 

What do you guys think? I want to make the most of all the space i have

[cuyama]

As noted in Track Planing for Realistic Operation, the longer straight run of benchwork would be a better location for a yard in most situations. Place it along the edge of the benchwork (set back 3-4" or so) and then it won't matter that you can only reach it from one side.

[HObbyguy]

I hope others jump in because I am hardly a track plan expert.  The guys here recommended Track Planning for Realistic Operation when I was designing and I found it helpful especially for yard design.

But that said, the yard tracks to be straight so that you can couple and uncouple cars, so the turnaround is not a good place.  I would try to put a yard somewhere at the front of the run against the long wall.  It looks like you have enough room to have a double-ended yard which would be great.

I would build the turnaround with only one or two tracks, run it around or through a mountain, and use it as an opportunity for a dramatic walk-around scene.

[SpartanCook]

So i have been working on the design in portions. This end of the dogbone will be the yard since i can walk around it on all sides. The outer loop is 26" radius then 22 then 18 inches. This will be the freight and engine yard. The passanger train will have its own siding later in town.  I dont have any books or anyhting on layouts, what do you guys think could this be functional?

[HObbyguy]

Wow you really did move things around.  The general footprint looks great, a dogbone with a bunch of straight running room between the ends.  You probably don't need 30" on the straight runs but reach won't be a big problem if you keep it that way.  Looks like around a 16x12 area?  Enough space to keep you busy for many years.

I would still finalize the plan and decide how you are going to manage elevations and turnouts before building all that benchwork.  Better yet start at one end and build the layout in phases, learning as you go.  That's what I am doing.

Here it is.  To post, first first right click on your picture on Imgur, then select view image.  That will bring up the web page for the image by itself.  Copy the address at the top of your browser.  Then back on this site in the editor you should see the little icon for insert/edit image.  Paste the address you copied into the source and set the width at around 600.  Should work.

[SpartanCook]

[SpartanCook]

http://imgur.com/q33eOIh

 

Ok guys i have another new one, but this is just bench work. I moved some things in the basement. I now have an along the wall benchwork Idea. What do you guys think about the possibilites for this bench work? Any drawback or things you would change before i start putting "Track" on it with the anyrail program. I will be building my final benchwork on 2/19 and 2/20 so any opinions would be nice.

 

If anyone can show tell me how to post the picture right in the message as well please let me know. I normally am good at that but i cant get it to work.

[cuyama]

As noted in other threads, sometimes placing a yard outside the oval(s) opens up possibilities. I actually thought that the earlier walk-in footprint had better potential than the big donut (with some modifications), but to each his or her own. A lot depends on what you are trying to achieve.

The actual Alaska RR has some interesting operations that could potentially be incorporated in this much space with some study (if you are interested).

As recommended in other threads, John Armstrong’s Track Planning for Realistic Operation provides useful background on creating track plans that offer long-term interest.

Good luck with your layout.

Byron

[HObbyguy]

Coming along, and we all learn from our mistakes.  Some very quick thoughts..

If you stick with it you will want a lot more yard and staging area to "park trains" so that should be included in the plan.  Also think about how you will operate the railroad and what the trains will do other than go round and round.  I don't know much about Alaska- do they mine coal there?  Also consider my previous post.  You would not be able to detach cars on the corner mine siding without crawling under the layout if operating from the middle.

 

[BigDaddy]

Here is your plan,  Your yard is very short.  I am having the same trouble designing in the much smaller space I have, I can have a long yard, a long yard lead or space to run trains, pick one.

[SpartanCook]

http://imgur.com/e8LeoSi

 

Here is the link to my new track plan i am working on. (Sorry i cant figure out how to just get it to show up yet so i put it on imgur).

I know i didnt listen to alot of your advice on this, but hey maybe i will learn the hardway. I put a lot of time into this and all the curves are 26" radius plus with the exception of the inner most loop that connects to the yard. (Just realized I didnt connect the outer loop and the inner loop yet, opps) This has some 18 and 22 rails that i currently have and want to use up in the design.

The outside loop will all be raised to 4.5 inches with a 3% grade on the inner loop. Let me know what you guys think. I realize this may be a lot of track to model alaska but I dont really care, its going to get alaska style scenary and turn into a small industrial valley

[HObbyguy]

I remember the pictures that you posted earlier, and given your particular situation I actually think a donut with wide sides does make some sense.  Unusual, but everyone has to make best use of the space that they have.  You will have to pay particular attention to the side against the wall though to make sure you can reach everything, especially underneath if you have tunnels on that end.

But saying it again- design before building, and use computer software.  Even with a donut design it will be tight, and software will keep you from commiting to a track plan that doesn't work.

With access on three sides you could conceivably operate from inside or outside the donut depending on where your track is laid.  If operating from the inside then you would want your turnouts located toward the inside and the outer track simple and reliable.  And if operating from the outside then your turnouts located on the outside edges and the inner track simple and reliable.  You don't want to have to crawl back and forth under the layout in order to operate the railroad.

[SpartanCook]

Thanka for all the suggestions guys, I do have access around the whole layout, however I don't have enough room to put it along the walls, the only place where it is the back wall. I can post a picture later of the space but I have a furnace and toolboxes and two shelving units built into the walls so I can't push them right up onto to the walls

[Anonymous]

I am going to re-iterate.  4ft wide is a huge problem if you cannot walk 360 degrees around the outside of the layout.  And even if you can it is still a huge pain (I have an O scale layout in my mothers basement that is made from 4x8 sheets of plywood).  It has not been worked on in 9.5 years and will never be finished.  The only reason it still exists is I have not had time to demolish it.  Crawing back and forth even for a young person (I started this layout shortly after my 18th birthday) gets tedius and you eventually get tired of standing up too soon and banging your head on the benchwork. 

Arround the walls is a much better use of space.  If you have enough, build a peninsula in the middle.  Use either a short duck/nod under, lift out, or lift/swing gate for access. 

Notice I did not discourage your donut plan, but you should really consider pushing it out to the walls and making your benchwork 18"-32" wide.  Trains do infact de-rail and when they do you will have a terrible time reaching it over 4ft wide benchwork.

Check out the model railroad planning 2016.  There is a great mountain railroad in there than may help you with ideas (it is N scale though). 

[SpartanCook]

Well I was looking at my space today and I think the true donut will work the best, it's a 16x16 area in the corner of my basement but there is utilities in the way. So it's more of a 9x 13 area. I think I will keep my 4x8s and join them with 2, 3 foot long section by 30" wide joiners. This will give me a 3x3' well in the middle, is this well big enough you think?

And with the outside being a complete circle on the joiners how many rails would fit comfortable on the 30" wide section? I am thinking about now putting one loop that goes all the way around on the base level, one loop up at 4.5 inches and one that goes up to 9 inches then back down, still trying to figure out a great design but i think its going in the right direction

[SpartanCook]

Ah I gotcha Choops, I am not worried about reach because I will be able to get around to every edge of the area except for one. I am going to model Alaska so a larger area for scenery will add to the look of the layout in my opinion, not too worried about money either. Going to have a long term hobby so I will finish it in parts

[Choops]

Too long to reach.  Save money on scenery material.  More room to stand in.  If you have a scene in mind that needs 4 feet then go for it.

steve

[SpartanCook]

Why would having the sides be 4 feet wide matter at all? It would grant more room to add scenery, the center joining sections will be as long as there is room for, the sides would all be the same length no matter what you would just create a larger circle in the middle that way choops

[Choops]

4 feet is too wide.  narrow the ends down to 30" max. make the center joining sections longer. 

And design a good layout plan before you build your benchwork!!!!

Steve

[SpartanCook]

Thanks for all the replies guys, I think I am going to consider making a true donut layout, in the near future, I think after using the planning software it showed how much easier the layout would function with complete loops and not dogbone style. I can pretty easily add another side and complete the loop in my bench work. I didn't want to have to duck under it before but I am still only 25 I can crawl under it.

With a complete loop connecting the two 4x8 sheets is there any need to expand anywhere else? I would then have two 4x8 connected by 3 foot long by 2 foot( or bigger sections) I was planning to make the sheets 5x8 here soon but if that doesn't matter I may be able to make the middle joiners longer

[riogrande5761]

SpartanCook

I am fairly comfortable building the bench work, I don't have a ton of tools to make it easier just a small circular saw

You'd be surprised how little is required to build benchwork.  I built this benchwork with only two power tools, a cordless drill and a sabre saw.  If you don't have a cordless drill, thats IMO a must have.  The sabre saw good because you can cut ordinary lumber and you can cut curves out of plywood as well.  If I get a chance to build a larger layout in the future, I'll look for a decent mitre saw.

 

[bearman]

You might have some issues in the ravine area.  Those tracks may be too close together.

[HObbyguy]

Glad to see you gave AnyRail a shot.  Suggest that you purchase the program or learn XtrackCad since it is free.  Using software will keep you from designing a trackplan that is not really possible.

As you are finding out, minimum 26" curves with grades on a "dogbone" style layout makes track design challenging.  I worked on my design several months before even posting a plan.  The biggest issue is that there is not much room for straight runs so adding turnouts for sidings is a challenge.  I am using Walthers curved turnouts in some areas which helps a bunch.  And some 24" curves, but then I am not planning on running modern passenger cars.  Grades add to the fun because you don't want to put a turnout on a grade.  And anything over 2% is pretty steep.

A doughnut style layout as suggested would solve a lot of these problems.  The downside is that you have to crawl under the layout to get to the middle.  The other option is to separate the two halves and lengthen the connector between them by at least several feet so that you have room for straight runs between the dogbone ends.  This would give you more options.

Keep on playing with software and post updates as you work along.  Eventually you will get there.

Just to show you what is possible here is where I am in my 13x14 area with a similar dogbone concept with lots of mountainous terrain.  I've been at it for three years now and phase 1 and 2 are built, landforms, bridges and tunnels are in place and all track is operational on the first two phases.  Next step is to build phase 3 and close the loops.  And again my minimum radius is 24" so a little tighter than what you are looking for.

[Choops]

https://scontent.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xal1/v/t1.0-9/12524080_10207127451378981_5356303354908430782_n.jpg?oh=7f934776fad70489f50fd7a9ec1e001b&oe=57348A01

Here is a plan with a double track main line.  30" min radius.  Add sidings or a yard as you like.

Buile the (2) 2' X 8' sections with legs then bridge the 8.5' X 2' sections between them. cover with plywood or foam and have fun. 

Steve

[SpartanCook]

I am fairly comfortable building the bench work, I don't have a ton of tools to make it easier just a small circular saw

[Choops]

Yes a doughnut.  You can do soo much more with it.  How comfortable are you with cutting wood and building benchwork?

Steve

 

[SpartanCook]

No I haven't really considered that yet, but I am open to all options, so would that be more of a donut shaped layout?