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New 9' x 9' 8" L - shape layout

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Posted by DSchmitt on Monday, January 18, 2016 3:32 PM

I tried to sell my two cents worth, but no one would give me a plug nickel for it.

I don't have a leg to stand on.

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Posted by DSchmitt on Monday, January 18, 2016 3:02 PM

BMMECNYC
DSchmitt, I noticed that your original track plan posts were in N scale?  The OP is modeling in HO scale.  Are these most recent drawings in HO? 

They are HO scale.  The earlier post has a HO scale verson (top) a and N scale verson (bottom). I posted the N scale to show how much more would fit in the same space.

I tried to sell my two cents worth, but no one would give me a plug nickel for it.

I don't have a leg to stand on.

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Posted by Anonymous on Monday, January 18, 2016 11:47 AM

DSchmitt

DSchmitt,

I noticed that your original track plan posts were in N scale?  The OP is modeling in HO scale.  Are these most recent drawings in HO? 

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Posted by CSXman14 on Monday, January 18, 2016 10:38 AM

DSchmitt, I like the double track mainline version. The only problem is I need room to put an afx car track and a 3-4 track switching yard (one of those tracks is going to be a run around track), and at least two stations with branch tracks. Now I know that's a lot of stuff fit on the layout, but what if I made the First loop elivated and the second loop would disappear by going underneath the firest loop tracks, making more room? It would also make it seem like the train has left for a while. Also I have three 2' x 4' fold up tables and one 3' x 5' regular table. Would the entire layout fit on them?

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Posted by DSchmitt on Sunday, January 17, 2016 10:59 PM

Single track twice around with branch line  HO

  donut3_zpsleosezks by Donald Schmitt, on Flickr

 

Double track twice around

 donut4a_zpszblcvw70 by Donald Schmitt, on Flickr

I tried to sell my two cents worth, but no one would give me a plug nickel for it.

I don't have a leg to stand on.

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Posted by CSXman14 on Sunday, January 17, 2016 2:01 PM

I like your idea with the shelves. I think I will do that, but instead I will do more of a modular version. I would do build standard 2' x 4' sections and make a O or a square shape with a space on the inside for me and reachability won't be a problem. My Mom is going to help me move the desk to make a bit more room. I will cut the boards to the segment specifications. I will put the segments on either foldable tables or saw horses. Expenses wise, I might have to get some more lumber, some saw horses or tables, and possibly some more foam. I glued down the foam on the two boards already. I'll have to rip it up without destroying it so I can reuse it. DSchmitt, could you possibly post a picture of your idea. Also, I could use some advice on this project. 

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Posted by DSchmitt on Sunday, January 17, 2016 12:32 PM

The configuration Cuyama posted in this thread would fit nicely in your space.  If compleatly accessable from the left side the access opening in that loop would not be necessary.

Annothe possability is a donut configuration.  Sheleves around the outside of the space, accessed and operated from a pit in the center.  This would require a duck-under or gate (neither of which I like), but if built close to standing eye level the duck-under could be a roll- under sitting in a chair.   The shelf on the open side could be wider (more room for yard or industry) than the other three since there would be access from both sides (although this would make access more difficult). To increase the mainline run, the trackplan could be a twice around oval  (works best with single track mainline).

I tried to sell my two cents worth, but no one would give me a plug nickel for it.

I don't have a leg to stand on.

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Posted by CSXman14 on Saturday, January 16, 2016 8:28 PM

I measured how the layout would fit with room to get around the whole entire layout. I would have about 9 inches of walk space around the layout. That's not even enough room to stand comfortably. I see the need to be able to get around the entire layout to like paint and lay track and for maintainance. So, I like the L-shape, but I don't think it's going to work. Tell me if there's any layout designs that you guys can recomend. 

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Posted by cuyama on Saturday, January 16, 2016 1:05 PM

I think that the concerns about reach and access remain in your current plan.

As far as industries, steel plants are huge, as you probably know. Smaller electric "mini-mills" based on scrap metal are of a more model-able scope.

In the space you have, you could possibly incorporate a reasonably long pair of tracks for intermodal, but it would probably require a re-design from scratch. And it might trade-off against the mini-mill

It can be hard to prioritize, but if you decide what is most important to you and then re-design the layout around that, you'll probably have a more satisfying experience in the long run.

Good luck with your layout.

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Posted by CSXman14 on Friday, January 15, 2016 10:14 AM

Anyone...

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Posted by CSXman14 on Wednesday, January 13, 2016 10:54 AM

The trolley and afx cars going from the city to the suburb and back. I'm planning on having a backdrop between the suburb and the country to ad a little bit of distance. I will have a lot of industries in the yard and on the main line. In Lancaster there's a house building company that has a wood yard with a lot of house sections around the yard. Would I need a branch off the main line say if the train had to pick up house pieces? Also, how much room do you need to have a steel industry? I sized up how many tracks I can get on my yard, and I can have a three  line stub yard with one run around track and a branch off the yard for an engine house. Would a steel industry ( or at least a steel pick up) fit in this yard? I could also be ok with a coal industry. Would that work better? And I'm pretty sure it's to small for an intermodal terminal (which I see a lot of in PA). If it's not too small let me know because I do like intermodals, like a lot.

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Posted by NVSRR on Wednesday, January 13, 2016 6:40 AM

That amish farm country is like a time machine when you ride strasburg rr.  Always a nice trip.      Any industries planned?   Think of taking the city trolley amd.makingnit an interurban and have some industries on it to have an interchange sort of thing at the yard?

A pessimist sees a dark tunnel

An optimist sees the light at the end of the tunnel

A realist sees a frieght train

An engineer sees three idiots standing on the tracks stairing blankly in space

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Posted by CSXman14 on Tuesday, January 12, 2016 10:24 AM

I like the idea of just a stub yard. I would probably make one run around track, and I would either make or use one of the tracks as a caboose track. I laid out the track on the yard, and I can only fit one run-around, a three track yard, and a track for a train building. I would have some industries around the yard and on the main line. I laid out the track on the main line and I can use 18" curves. I'm planning on using 4% riser starters to get my trains up to the bridge and back down again. My layout is going to have of course trains, a trolley, and afx cars. The trolley and the afx cars will only be in the city. The city is mostly going to be made up of the places I like sort combined into one. The country is going to be based off of Strasbourg, PA.

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Posted by NVSRR on Monday, January 11, 2016 7:43 PM

That yard and sidings just seam to  not work very well do they DSchmitt.  Maybe better with a stub end yard and a branch line/industrial park  and a few sidings on the main.  maybe a single main.    Those yard tracks just seam to be to short to be any use.   Longest yard track being about 2.5 to 3 feet long by the looks of it.

What is your thoughts CSXman?  Now that it is in a to scale cad drawing.  Keep in mind we are trying to help so that it all works for you and doesn't become a disappointment.

Shane

A pessimist sees a dark tunnel

An optimist sees the light at the end of the tunnel

A realist sees a frieght train

An engineer sees three idiots standing on the tracks stairing blankly in space

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Posted by DSchmitt on Monday, January 11, 2016 1:55 PM

NVSRR

Those 12 and 15  radius. Curves means short small locos.  And  short cars

 

Revised -  18" minimum Radius:  HO

 

  CSXman14_1_zpsr4ru3ofg by Donald Schmitt, on Flickr

 

 CSXman14_N_zpsb4jy6rqk by Donald Schmitt, on Flickr

 

 

I tried to sell my two cents worth, but no one would give me a plug nickel for it.

I don't have a leg to stand on.

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Posted by NVSRR on Monday, January 11, 2016 9:53 AM

Is it possible to do access panels?   I saw the room pics.   That is tight.    Putting it on saw horses might help with being able too place access hatches.  That way you could reach all of it.   Access hatches are an old school wayof dealing with that.  Many articles on them.

A pessimist sees a dark tunnel

An optimist sees the light at the end of the tunnel

A realist sees a frieght train

An engineer sees three idiots standing on the tracks stairing blankly in space

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Posted by NVSRR on Monday, January 11, 2016 6:09 AM

Those 12 and 15  radius. Curves means short small locos.  And  short cars

A pessimist sees a dark tunnel

An optimist sees the light at the end of the tunnel

A realist sees a frieght train

An engineer sees three idiots standing on the tracks stairing blankly in space

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Posted by DSchmitt on Sunday, January 10, 2016 3:06 PM

Take a look at Cuyama's Layout Design Gallery, link in his post above, and also look at layouts on line that fit your space.  Also our hosts have some good books on layout planning as well as track plan books and if you are a MR subscriber check out the Track Plan Database on this site.

--------

If you want to keep the yard and sidings level, grades in the neighborhood of 4% , would be required to provide 3" vertical clearance at the crossing.   HO

 

 CSXman14_zpst9ehk5ul by Donald Schmitt, on Flickr

I tried to sell my two cents worth, but no one would give me a plug nickel for it.

I don't have a leg to stand on.

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Posted by Doughless on Sunday, January 10, 2016 1:02 PM

Its not a matter of not liking your plan, its just that the turnouts you've drawn won't fit, so the trackplan you posted will probably not even fit that space. Reach issues are something we are pointing out, but you can certainly build it that way if you like.  

Usually, in order to get specific advice, posting a drawing of the entire room helps.  That way, the forum can see the obstacles in the room....entry and exit points, etc.  We don't know how the tables will fit in the room.

 

- Douglas

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Posted by CSXman14 on Sunday, January 10, 2016 11:43 AM

So it seems that a lot of people don't like my layout design, or at least they don't like that it's up against the wall. So then, what I would like to know is, what should I change? Should I rearange the tables in a different shape? Should I make it into a modular layout instead? What do you guys recommend?

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Posted by Doughless on Sunday, January 10, 2016 11:04 AM

It can be fun to design layouts, but if you build something that won't work very well the hobby can become a source of frustration. 

Enlist help if you have too, but try to arrange the stuff in room so that you have space to can walk around the layout.  Try different arrangements if you have too.

 

- Douglas

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Posted by "JaBear" on Sunday, January 10, 2016 3:41 AM
Having seen your track plan, I’ve been struggling on how to word my reply as the last thing I want to do is discourage your enthusiasm, but there is no easy way.
That plan is not going to work as it is, so much of it will be out of reach and you’ll end up annoyed, and perhaps even disgruntled with the whole hobby when after all your effort, you pull it down. (How do I know, been there and done that with a club layout that just “growed”),
It may seem odd but you don’t have to have a layout to be a model railroader, there are plenty of things to do, depending on what era you plan to model there are freight car kits to build; buildings to build, learn to paint and weather, you might even decide to try your hand at scratch building, and when you’re on a budget, such activities, while NOT necessarily initially cheap do tend provide more bang for your buck while learning and practising new skills.

Cheers, the Bear.Smile

"One difference between pessimists and optimists is that while pessimists are more often right, optimists have far more fun."

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Posted by cuyama on Saturday, January 9, 2016 11:56 AM

If you can't walk around the outside of the layout, then you won't be able to reach what you have drawn so far.

It's very possible to draw to-scale carefully with paper and pencil. That's what everyone did back in the day.

Best of luck with your layout.

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Posted by CSXman14 on Saturday, January 9, 2016 12:59 AM

The layout is up against the wall. It's in my basement and around the layout are shelves, a desk, etc. If I moved it out from the wall for a walk way around the layout, there wouldn't be a lot of room to walk to get to the layout (if that makes any sense). I uploaded a photo of the boards with the foam on the boards. It hasn't been passed yet, but when it is, it should give you guys an idea of what I'm working with. Two of the boards are on fold up tables, while the other is on a kitchen table that was my great grandfather's. Oh, and the curves are 18" radius curves. The inclines I was thinking of using was a 3%, but I was going to spread the inclines out in 1" segments to get the track up to at least 3". I would make a better plan out on a track planning software, but I don't have a computer of my own, just an iPod and an iPad mini (Apple geek). I'm pretty sure they don't make a track planning software for iOS. 

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Posted by cuyama on Friday, January 8, 2016 9:45 PM

Here's the link to the photo of the track plan

http://cs.trains.com/mrr/m/mrr-layouts/2290626.aspx

[The forum software Kalmbach uses is fussy about direct links from their photo gallery, apparently]

Unfortunately, there are a number of concerns. I don't think this is drawn truly to scale, especially the turnouts. So I think that a lot less will fit than you hope. And it’s pretty ambitious overall.

Additionally, if this is to be against one or more walls, you probably won't be able to reach all of it for construction and maintenance – unless you plan to climb on the benchwork, which creates other issues. Most people prefer to build layouts with less than 30” reach to any point. (If you will have aisle all around, that would help).

As far as grades, most folks find that 2.5% or less works well with a variety of equipment, which takes a significant length of track to achieve. I’m not sure if you can get enough elevation in the sketch you’ve drawn.

If you are building into a corner along two walls, folks often find that it’s more successful wen the layout curves into the corner so that it’s easier to reach more of it. Like this HO layout in an 8’X8’ room.

My suggestion would be to take a step back, think about access, and then try redrawing very carefully to scale.

Best of luck with your layout.

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Posted by NVSRR on Friday, January 8, 2016 8:50 PM

He did get a picture of the track plan posted

A pessimist sees a dark tunnel

An optimist sees the light at the end of the tunnel

A realist sees a frieght train

An engineer sees three idiots standing on the tracks stairing blankly in space

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Posted by kasskaboose on Wednesday, January 6, 2016 9:34 AM
To help keep costs and insanity down, focus, focus, focus. Consider what you want out of the layout, where and when to have the layout depict. Once you narrow things down greatly, the projects become much more manageable and minimize the 'gotta have' itch.
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Posted by RR_Mel on Wednesday, January 6, 2016 9:33 AM

I built my first layout (HO) when I was 14 and it really hooked me on model railroading!  It was a shelf layout, I graduated to my first 4’ x 8’ layout about 8 years later after I moved out on my own.  About another 10 years and I rebuilt my 4’ x  8’ into a copy of John Allen’s first G&D layout.
 
Then in 1989 I started my final 14’ x 10’ L shape layout (also HO) so mine isn’t much larger than what you’re proposing.  You can do a lot of model railroading in that space.  My only regret is not having enough long sidings to park full trains.
 
My layout is about 140 square feet and I have a double track mainline with over 100’ of track in a double loop with a 3½% grade into my mountains, a truss bridge, a trestle and a partially hidden helix back to town level.  I have a two stall diesel maintenance shop, a large five stall roundhouse with a 135’ turntable to accommodate my large articulateds, a small yard and a fairly large passenger station.
 
I run dual mode, majority of my fleet is DC but the DCC sound hooked me.  Over my 60+ year model railroading career I now have over 80 locomotives from the 50s era but only a dozen decoders.
 
 
 
 
Good luck with your layout!
 
 
Mel
 
Modeling the early to mid 1950s SP in HO scale since 1951
 
My Model Railroad   
 
Bakersfield, California
 
I'm beginning to realize that aging is not for wimps.
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Posted by "JaBear" on Wednesday, January 6, 2016 3:24 AM

CSXman14
I have my plan drawn out on graph paper and I have a photo of it, but since this type box thing is so ancient, I can't put it in.

My first impression is that you’re trying to achieve far too much in your space, I could be quite wrong so I’d suggest that you read Steven Ottes’ How to post a photo to the forums because I think I’m not the only one that thinks that a picture is worth a 1000 words, and my tired old brain can cope with actually seeing.
 
There are code 100 to 83 rail joiners available.

Cheers, the Bear.Smile

"One difference between pessimists and optimists is that while pessimists are more often right, optimists have far more fun."

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