Am sure this has been addressed in the past. Recently, while detailing a scene, I asked the question, "Is this good enough?" Several of the scenes -"vignettes" - around my layout provide close-up observation. Detailing each scene seems like an endless -- and enjoyable! -- project. But, when to stop; or do we ever stop? Getting a photo entered and accepted in MR's "Trackside Photos" seems like one measure of "good enough". I dunno... Just wondering. Thanks
I think it all depends on what you consider to be "the model". For some folks the purpose of the layout is to display finely detailed models of railroad equipment. For others it is intended to represent a transportation system and it is the operation that is modeled.
For most of us, I think it's an evolutionary thing. My practice is that I don't put the effort into making anything a "10" until everything is a "7".
Trackside Photos IMO is not the standard. Much of what you see there is stuff that is not part of a layout and built specifically for the purpose of producing a good photograph. They are often done on portable dioramas and taken outside to be photographed in front of real backgrounds - hardly a standard that part of a layout can be measured against.
I have the right to remain silent. By posting here I have given up that right and accept that anything I say can and will be used as evidence to critique me.
I think the key is not the amount of detail in any one given piece, but the detail overall. Be uniformly detailed i.e. don't have a really detailed locomotive and cars that lack even the basiv details. Personally I don't go nuts on detail.. I have a day job which eats up alot of time so "off the shelf" is good enough for me.
yer build the thing and yer sets the standard of what´s good enough!
Seriously, there is no standard or rule of thumb - when you like your achievement and you have that proud feeling " I have done it" - then it´s good enough!
While it's great to get a pic published in Trackside Photos, using it as a standard for "good enough" is a lot like using hand grenades to go fishing. Way overkill. There is a TON of great modeling done that will never be in TP. Just check the weekly WPF threads.
Also keep in mind that TP is as much about it being a good pic as it is about great modeling. If your main interest was pics of great modeling, then using TP as a metric makes a little more sense. But it still excludes a lot of great stuff, as well as far, far more "good enough." Again, I'll refer you to WPF for numerous examples.
I think you've got an unclear idea of what good enough usually means. It may not win a contest, maybe even likely wouldn't win a contest (TP, an NMRA meet, the National Narrow Gauge Convention show, etc) but it still works at the layout level.
With the increasing interest in prototype fiedlity in recent decades, some people take this to mean a satisfying layout is one that is 100% accurate. Let me tell you, if that were the case, then there would be very few articles written about much of anything -- layouts, models, contests. Even if you somehow built a model consisting of 100% accurate models, it could still prove pretty unsatisfying if there wasn't a coherent theme, plane, or style to hold it all together.
In fact, it's the overall impression a layout, a scene, or a model creates that conveys the impression of good enough. Up close, things may be obviously short of what could be done if every trick in the book was used. In fact, one of the great secrets of model railroading is that the first 90% or so of any model is either very close to or already is good enough. Getting that extra 10% built in is what will take 3 or 4 times as long for any given element in model railroading.
Sure, go there if that's your obsession. But if you do, you may never have a layout that you find good enough, which is a great encouragement to simply give up on the hobby in frustration. You may not even have a single model if that's you initial goal, because the only way to ever get close to building anything near a perfect model is to learn by building a lot of imperfect models. If they cause you a lot of angst, well there you go, you'll never get to your destination.
Instead, build 'em as they come. You'll learn something every time. The imperfections you might be bothered by tend to fade in the enjoyment of what went right with what you created. It's that positive reinforcement that keeps people coming back to just about all things in life, including model railroading. That sort of good enough works well enough if you let it be.
Because modeling paralysis will otherwise catch you in its net.
Mike Lehman
Urbana, IL
Sir MadogSeriously, there is no standard or rule of thumb - when you like your achievement and you have that proud feeling " I have done it" - then it´s good enough!
That's precisely it. You don't have to use the same standard everywhere on the layout either; decide how far you want to take each scene or structure. Finishing everything the same isn't necessarily desirable. One area or industry may get a lot of attention, but the adjacent one may be perfectly good enough with much less.
mlehmanThe imperfections you might be bothered by tend to fade in the enjoyment of what went right with what you created. It's that positive reinforcement that keeps people coming back to just about all things in life, including model railroading. That sort of good enough works well enough if you let it be.
There's much wisdom in Mike's post, but this stood out. Good advice!
Rob Spangler
Georgia Flash. Detailing each scene seems like an endless -- and enjoyable! -- project. But, when to stop; or do we ever stop?
Cheers, the Bear
"One difference between pessimists and optimists is that while pessimists are more often right, optimists have far more fun."
To circle around your question............ "Good enough" is in the head of the modeler - and each of us have different levels. I guess the key is to continue to strive to do better, learning new methods and perfecting old ones.
ENJOY !
Mobilman44
Living in southeast Texas, formerly modeling the "postwar" Santa Fe and Illinois Central
Agreed with what others have said about "good enough." Perhaps ask someone else to look at your layout and figure out where else to add detail, make something look more realistic, etc. No one said to break the bank on the layout.
Another true measurement is having young children at the layout. If you see smiles, hear "oohs" and "aaahs," then that's good enough.
When playing golf or running a marathon, no matter how good your best score ever was or how good your best time was, you always want to see if you can improve. Of course when you shoot an 18 on the golf course or finish the marathon before you even start, it is hard to improve on that.
I just just keep picking away on a scene as time goes by. I keep seeing little things I can do to improve it. I can't imagine ever saying there is nothing I can do to add to or improve a scene.
It's the enjoyable journey that last as long as you want it to. Kind of like growing a Bonsai tree.
Brent
"All of the world's problems are the result of the difference between how we think and how the world works."
The question of what is "good enough" is a hot issue for me. A few months back, I suffered from a stroke, which left my left side rather useless. Through a strict regimen of physical therapy, I have regained much of the use of my left side, i.e. I can walk properly, I can hold things with my left hand, but my dexterity is still hampered and those jobs, where you need both hands, are extremely cumbersome, of not impossible for me to do. I am still starting on my layout, enlisting help for those jobs whenever I can, which is not always possible. Whatever I will be able to achieve will be good enough for me - it´s much better than doing nothing!
When you are happy with it, then it's good enough.
South Penn
SouthPennSouthPenn wrote the following post 7 minutes ago: When you are happy with it, then it's good enough. South Penn
I agree. But if in six months, or six years you say that it isn't god enough, I'll still agree.
Have fun.
Dave
Both Brent and Ulrich offer substantive insights here.
Ulrich's is perhaps the more straightforward one. Expectations have a lot to do with it. When you're young and in full command of yourself, it's easy to think of leaping tall buildings and creating them, too.
Age and/or infirmity can change that perspective. Maybe you won't take first place anywhere, but what you can accomplish becomes precious, especially in relation to things it may require the aid of others. For some it's as simple as buying RTR tastefully. For many, it becomes a struggle to do the most basic tasks -- and doubly rewarded when you've done or arranged for them to happen despite the difficulties, whether physical or financial.
BATMANI just just keep picking away on a scene as time goes by. I keep seeing little things I can do to improve it. I can't imagine ever saying there is nothing I can do to add to or improve a scene. It's the enjoyable journey that last as long as you want it to. Kind of like growing a Bonsai tree.Laugh
"Good enough" can be static. In fact, I may have given that impression of it as pretty fixed, but that is a mistake as Brent points out. Yes, "good enough" at any moment is rather a snapshot. But it's just one point in time.
You must first be satisfied with it, then you may find fault -- or at least something that can be improved. And it must happen in that order. because as I noted earlier, if you are perpetually dissastified with something, you're unlikely to stick to it long enough to improve.
In other words, "good enough" is part of a process of improvement, too, not a judgment of achievement that results in a good stopping point. Once you're "there" you'll soon start feeling restless, and the process goes round the circle again. That's part of learning anything, because it's what connects the individual acts of doing along a timeline into a rising arc of proficiency, artfulness, and craftmanship, but it applies in particular to model railroading with its wide range of themes and skills that allows you to find the best mix of creating to keep you pushing that "good enough" button and getting your reward.
And as the Bear helpfully points out, if you keep having fun, then you're doing it right by any standard.
Rob,
Thanks for the kind comment.
A person's, "Good enough," is very individual, and purely in the eye of the beholder.
When judging my own work, I have a built-in Photoshop(r) app, so I probably see things with my 'third eye' that would be invisible to visitors with the normal two. ("What steel stud wedding cake? That's Pagoda Hill, with the sumo shelter there, and those cedars were old when Meiji was young.")
When judging the work of others, I am far more critical if I have to pay a fee to get in . If it's just a casual visit, I'm willing to cut as much slack as the builder's attitude seems to deserve. "I know this should be better," gets the whole coil , nose in the air, less so .
As I progress into 'to be visible' territory, the first pass is a rough approximation of landforms and a quick splash of cheap latex paint (and the result looks like a camouflage net over some piece of military equipment .) Later I'll come back and refine the landforms (including bridges, tunnel portals, buildings, foliage and people. )
Chuck (Modeling Central Japan in September, 1964)
I read a story that a modeler asked John Allen what he thought of his detailed locomotive. Instead of giving an opinion, John Allen took a photo of the loco on John's well detailed layout and John asked the modeler the same question.
Given the photo, the modeler added more detail and won an award for the loco.
greg - Philadelphia & Reading / Reading
First post, and an ironic one at that. I've been lurking here for almost 2 years and gleaning a lot of great advice while I built my first layout -- and I thank you all! Loved trains as a kid, but rock-n-roll (drummer) and chicks derailed me in a semi destructive yet enjoyable way for a few years. Fast forward another 20 and I find myself with some extra room and a little extra money so I decided to get back into things. I must say its the most relaxing thing I've done in a long time.
But what is good enough? Whatever floats your boat! Reading MR and other trade mags, I've noticed more than one instance where trackwork/planning/trackside detail is impeccable, but the backdrop painting looks like my dog painted it. Should I fault the guy? No! Backdrops aren't his thing, or whatever. Great thing about this hobby is there are several dozen points of interest that we can choose to focus on, and damn the torpedos (and naysayers) for the rest. Do what you will, enjoy it, and be proud of it. Are you happy with it? Good enough. And 6 months later that answer of "good enough" may very well change. Not a problem, just fix it. Or modify it. Or all out re-do it. No wrong answers here.
Last week I demolished my first layout attempt and am starting over. My wife cant figure out why I'm so calm about demolishing all that work, much less excited about starting over. It's the journey, not the destination.
DrumguyLast week I demolished my first layout attempt and am starting over. My wife cant figure out why I'm so calm about demolishing all that work, much less excited about starting over. It's the journey, not the destination.
Drumguy,
I think you have the process and benefits of this hobby figured out. Glad to have you chime in.
There's a long thread in the Gen Disc Forum about what the hobby costs, an all too frequently beaten to death horse around here which tidied up most of that into one neat -- OK, not so neat -- package. Maybe when people do their ciphering and come up with "too expensive" they forget to factor in the benefits of the hobby.
To me, there's one that is clear...
Mental health time. Priceless!
Whether you see it, very healthily, as a journey or as I see it, a way to avoid much more expensive and probably less effective therapy, I think finding the positives in the hobby helps you find the positives in life itself.
Knowing what's good enough to derive satisfaction from is, as you say, essential, as well as not something to get too hung up on. When you feel the need and inspiration to improve, then you do it. Until then, it's all good.
I like to add a lot of detail to my scenes. I take a 4-walls-and-a-roof kit and spend a month or two on it, painting, mortaring the brick, adding roof vents and fire escapes and putting details inside the building and lights to show it off. Outside there will be people, cars, fire hydrants, parking meters and street lamps strategically placed to illuminate the alleys full of garbage cans.
If I tried to detail every scene in my layout, I'd never be done. And you know, that's exactly the way I'd like it.
It takes an iron man to play with a toy iron horse.
Hi Georgia Flash
Well first off a model railroad is never finished.
There is always something that can be done or added.
So its good enough, is when the layout builder decides its good enough untll,
the builder decides its not and adds that piece he thinks it needs
Which usualy results in more beng added untill its good enough untill!! well you get the picture.
regards John
May I add........ On most of the structures I've built the last 20-25 years I put the build date on the bottom or inside. In a recent scenery session I took notice of the dates as I moved various structures.
Well, those built 15 or so years ago may have been "good enough" then, but by my standards today they needed some help - which for the most part I gave them.
My point is, as we grow as MRs, our "good enough" level should be higher and higher. If not, we are falling behind (for want of a better phrase).
Good enopugh is good enough when you are happy with it. Take some pictures of it, pictures will always show the flaws, and you will know what to work on and can decide if you want to work on it.
Your budget also gets a vote in the matter.
If you are a perfectionist, you have my sympathies.
ROAR
The Route of the Broadway Lion The Largest Subway Layout in North Dakota.
Here there be cats. LIONS with CAMERAS
Honestly, for years while I was in the service, I built many small layouts and sold the when I transferred to another duty station. Each time I learned something. Last year, I designed my own "Free lanced" RR. When I started building it, the benchwork finished, put a smile on my face and I took a picture. I laid out the track plan, ditto ... another smile, another photo. It doesn't matter what it looked like at each stage because it was mine, I liked it, and I'm still happy with it. Scenery changes have been made several times based on where I felt the structures would looked best. There were tips given in MRR that I employed and from comments of friends that have seen it (professional builders of which I'm not) were excited about what I worked into my track layout. Gee, another smile. Base what you are doing in your layout on what YOU invision and how satisfied you are with it.
"Good Enough" has changed for me over the years. When I was in my twenties, thirties, and forties, I wanted everything I built to be "perfect"...detailed to the nth degree. Little was accomplished. I am now in my early 60s and with a noticable change in eyesight (for the worse) and less ability to hold things steady, "Good Enough" equates to getting thing done in a timely manner, whether perfect or not.
I look back now and say, "I wish I hadn't been so picky, and just built the layouts I had palnned".
Mike
I post photos of my completed models in the Photo Gallery periodically and I have a certain philosophy of "good enough". As many of my models are re-worked from swap meet purchases, I find that my repaintings, home-made decaling, improved weighting and additions of Kadees and IM wheels on these generally take the original items to a level of "completeness" that allows them to- in my opinion- stand proudly as fair representations of reality. If I were to choose to pursue virtually identical prototypicality as a modeling goal, I would spend months on just one project and invest more money than I care to. That would diminish the "fun" aspect of what I do with these old BBs and Tycos- and therefore, my derived enjoyment of the hobby. When I show my completed models to my wife and daughter, they always tell me that I did a good job- that, alone, is "good enough" for me!
Cedarwoodron
When YOU are happy.
Anybody else can kiss your pink brake hose.
Disclaimer: This post may contain humor, sarcasm, and/or flatulence.
Michael Mornard
Bringing the North Woods to South Dakota!