Hi All
After dealing with my wife's health issues I am able to get back to trains again. I have most of this layed out and ready to star gluing and nailing things down. The only thing i havent got quite figured out is the yard and locomotive area. I just want to make sure that I am going in the right direction. Before I glue it down.
Thanks tons again for all the wonderfull help.
Duane
Our large HO scale layout does not have a single nail in it anywhere -- drywall screws are the modern way to go.
If you change your mind about any aspect of the layout and want to change it, drywall screws are much easier to remove than nails.
How are you planning to get in/out of the middle?
P
I would not have the turntable lead cutting across the yard. You have to keep all the crossovers clear to get to the turntable and back. This will interfere with yard switching.
Your mainline runs right through the middle of the yard.
I suggest you change the yard tracks on the right half to a passenger station with a passing track.
I also suggest you extend the tail track on the upper left under the bridge and connect to your mainline so it can be a switching lead.
Add a turnout to the ladder on the upper left to access the turntable.
I highly recommend you get a copy of John Armstrong's book Track Planning for Realistic Operation . This is the best book to read before track planning.
Good luck
Paul
Hi Duane
Get rid of the line cutting across the yard to loco it wil be a @$#%^&^%$*&^$#@!!!! and badly interfere with yard operations.
Realign and conect the lower left siding into the yard throat so it forms a sort of loop rotate loco and conect it into the newly created loop like arangement.
If you can rearange the whole left hand lower corner there apears to be a lot of wasted space that would be better used to create a rail served industrial area that could provide a lot of extra operational interest.
Looks to me like you can have another passenger stop at the top of the layout at least I asume thats what the building at middle bottom is.
I know it's a bit more than you asked for
but its my thought's on your plan.
regards John
Thank you all for the quick ideas! I will give all the changes a go I work better with pictures but I do understand. I get the idea about a station at the yard but can't seem to get it. As I make changes I will re post.
Again Thanks for all the cool ideas I need them
Duane,
First, is this the layout plan?
Here are some ideas:
Yes, I know the drawings are rudimentary, at best, but that's the best I could do using Paint. I agree with an earlier post to make the area to the right of the yard into a passenger area--depot, house track, coach yard, etc. I did not try to draw anything there.
The green line in the upper right hand corder re-routes the main line to connect wth the sixth track from the left. You could even move it one more track to the right giving you a bit less space for the passenger stuff but more switching/classification yard.
The long blue line at the top lengthens the yard's North (?) drill track. The long blue line at the bottom extends the South (?) yard drill track. Its connection to the main is moved left.
As for the bulb in the middle it seems to me it has little purpose or ointerest. I suggest making it more rectangular with a few stub tracks that could either lead to industries (ie an industrial park) or be made into another yard. In corporating a wye into that provides some operational interest by turning trains.
Good luck! Let us know what you come up with.
Take out the blob, you do not have enough walkway, need at least 30".
rrebell Take out the blob, you do not have enough walkway, need at least 30".
I agree. It doesn't add anything and looks almost like an afterthought. With a little finagling you can incorporate the siding into the straightened space.
Joe
I am at a loss. Does anyone make house calls? . I have been trying things and it seems for every step I take forword I take 4 back. I just want to get it right the first time. And yes I was planing on a duck under at the lower left of the layout. But I am open to some redesign.
You guys are fantastic thsnks for the great input.
After you bang your head a few times, even during construction, you'll soon realize that a duck-under is a bad idea.
With the size room you have, a point-to-point U-shaped layout may be a better idea.
You have created an impossible reach across the roundhouse to the track in the lower right corner. You don't want any track more than 30" from the edge of the benchwork. 24" would be a better standard.
You could also build a lift gate instead of using a duckunder and still have your donut shape without having a head knocker.
I have the right to remain silent. By posting here I have given up that right and accept that anything I say can and will be used as evidence to critique me.
I like the idea of a fold down. I will also get rid of the blob in the middle(that's funny). But I would like to figure a way to to keep the turntable and roundhouse. But if I have to give it up I will.
For some reason the diagram marked with my suggestions won't paste into a posting. I pasted it into a PM to you that hopefully works.
With regard to the long reach in the round house area, how about turning the round house 90 degrees cloclwise and shifting it left to the center of the lower side. The TT lead could be extended to still connect in the same place or it could connect to the lower drill track.
damigg I am at a loss. Does anyone make house calls? . I have been trying things and it seems for every step I take forword I take 4 back. I just want to get it right the first time. And yes I was planing on a duck under at the lower left of the layout. But I am open to some redesign. You guys are fantastic thsnks for the great input. Duane
Thanks for for your reply rrbell! I am trying to setup to try and run about everything from past to present. I do realize the Big Boys and 85' box cars are out for me. So if it is cool I hope to at least run it. But I may get a big boy just because .
So I am trying to set up at 22'r or more and I know it is a lot to ask for in a 11x12 area.
I also just ordered Track Planing for Realistic Operation: By John Armstrong because I need all the help I can get.
As others have mentioned, I see three things that must be fixed in order for the layout to function reasonably well.
The diagonal track through the yard must be eliminated. The turntable lead can be the other track that almost meets the yard track. There is room for a left hand turnout there.
The left side of the yard is floating at the north end, that track should be connected to the main line up on the far north side of the layout.
The blob serves no purpose. You have plenty of distance for building grade along the west side, it takes up space, and the track is too close to the edge of the bench work.
As far as helpful hints:
Although the reach to the SE corner is poor, you really don't have any switching or crossings going on there. You would really only need to access the rare derailment that occurred there. Consider sliding the roundhouse and turntable out to the center of the open space, like a mini blob, and make the south side benchwork shallower to provide beter access to the SE corner. Really, the turntable and roundhouse looks like the dominate feature of the layout, so having it prominant on its own mini blob sort of makes sense.
Ask yourself about the need for the passing siding an spurs on the north side. If those spurs are for industries, you really have no space for buildings. After you remove the blob, you can reconfigure the track to move that passing siding and spurs to the west side.
I think those changes would substantially fix the problems with the plan.
- Douglas
Doughlas
You just saved my confidence in myself. You and the others have some great fixes and you saved my turntable and roundhouse. I will try and redo my design and post it soon and get hopfully some finishing pointers.
Thanks You SirDuane
Couple of thoughts on duckunders:
My layout is approximately an 8'-4" x 11'-6" doughnut. I decided that there is no point at which the track plan is simple enough to make a reliable lift-out or gate or a raise-up or lower-down bridge. So I built it at 49" high and access the center pit by a duck-under. I cushion the benchwork frame edges with foam pipe insulation; also, 2 low-level "handrails" covered with the same pipe insulation flanking the walk-through. The latter make a big difference because one can lean on them and not be so anxious to lift one's head too soon. I am 80 years old and have no regrets. If the day comes when I cannot stoop that much, I have a low secretarial chair I can use to scoot through in a seated position.
Avoid the duckunder if you can, but if other factors make it a necessity, go for it!
Dante
Duane, what kind of trains are you going to be running? Length, era, type? Helps to know that for track design etc. Sounds like you have some capable help and glad to see another Rio Grande fan lurking about.
I was naughty and designed an around the wall plan without a duck under, against all the good advice people have but I just couldn't manage it with my track play which was too complex, two tracks at grade going through the only spot where a lift out could be put but at least there is a soft carpet for me to crawl on my hands and knees to get under and a large operator space in the middle!
Cheers and keep us apprised of your progress.
Rio Grande. The Action Road - Focus 1977-1983
Here is another go at a design. I havent got the elevations figured yet. But that shouldnt be a problem. I am just hoping to get to the next stage of my layout.
1. What is the purpose of the track drawn in blue on the western side? It looks quite complicated and may not leave enough room for any industries or scenic things. I suggest removing one of the two crossing tracks and shortening the remaining one. This will open up a bit more room and slightly simplify operations.
2. As drawn, and if Murphy’s Law is in force at your house, you are going to have never ending troubles with your caboose track turnout. If I have calculated correctly the minimum reach to it is about three feet. If you are over 6’10” in height that may not be an issue but for most of us that is too far. I would:
a. Shift the yard as far to the north as possible. It may only be a few inches for evern three or so would help, together with
b. Modifying the TT and round house bubble. Consider putting the round house on a diet—make it three or four stalls wide, rather than six. Also, consider elimination of maybe half of the garden tracks—four or five should be sufficient. Then turn the combination round house and TT about 90 degrees counter clockwise and snug it to the southeast so that the round houose winds up almost in the corner with only the “main” tracks behind it. This may require moving the turnout in the southeast corner connecting the red and yellow tracks. Avoid turnouts behind buildings if at all possible (Murphy’s Law again).
3. You mentioned you have not yet worked out elevations. One idea would be to have what looks to be a town on the North side be level but at a higher elevation than the yard. The problem is figuring out where its track can rejoin the main tracks without having an excessive grade. I fiddled with it a bit but did not come up with an answer. The plue tracks on the west side presumable have to be level for switching opportunities but, as drawn, they connect pretty directly with the town tracks. It might be simplest to have grade crossings in the northeast corner rather than over/under.
A few comments...First read and re-read John Armstrong's book, and others if you can. Also, if you have not, look at the MR layout plan data base - there may be some interesting ideas to 'borrow.'
As you might see from the design, a double ended yard doesn't work well in this modest space. It simply takes up too much room for the yard ladders and the resulting tracks are small. One such track might be ok, but the rest would be better if stub ended letting them be longer so you could handle longer trains.
Turntables and supporting roundhouses take up a lot of space. One thought would be to eliminate the roundhouse, some of the radial tracks and have a rectangular engine house. It could be 2 or three stalls, and even house larger locos. This would open up the center section of the space more so its easier to move around and reduces the reach distance to the tracks along the wall.
The duck-under is a concern. The width (bottom to top on the drawing) should be around a foot or maybe less. As it currently is shown this is a crawl under, and you'll wind-up banging into all sorts of things when you try to stand - and none of it in a good way.
The industrial tracks on the left (blue) are way too complex and will be a real bear to install. The real RR's tried to avoid switch backs if at all possible because of the diffculties and expense. One or two larger industries with simpler track arrangements would provide as much switching fun, provide 'spots' for different car types and give you an excuse to build interesting industrial complexes.
Rick
I was hoping the roundhouse blob would be made smaller. As you can see they take up a lot of space, so do double ended yards, almost not enough space for classification tracks. As another has mentioned, the huge blob now obscures the caboose turnout.
Don't know why you didn't connect the red line with the yellow line up at the top, then make the blue line the lead for the cross-over yellow bridge line.
The snaggle of blue lines really doesn't help.
i think you would be better off with a twice-around oval by 1) eliminating the red track from the north side of the yard to the set of blue tracks on the west, 2) creating a mainline (straighter) connection from the yellow siding in the north to the red track south in the southwest corner and 3) eliminating any cross overs between the mainline tracks in the west.
additional industrial spurs can be added along side the mainline
the siding in the north may be better off on the south side on the yellow track, more equal distance from the yard in both directions.
complete a mainline siding in the yard allowing trains to pass one another.
it looks like you may have more room for engines around the turntable than rolling stock in the yard
greg - Philadelphia & Reading / Reading
A mistake made by many people --- track, track, track everywhere, and no room for buildings, houses, etc. Where are the people who work for the industries going to live? Any schools, parks, shopping centers, parking lots --
I'd eliminate nearly all the blue track on the left side and put a residential/shopping center area there. Perhaps a small passenger depot would also be appropriate.
Well I am still trying to redesign my lay out. I have now scraped the idea of a Turn table and went with a yard based on a Paul Dolkos (Woodsriver Yard MR Dec. 95) design that I had seen in a supliment that came with a Model Railroader Magazine a while back. I really like this yard so I gave it a shot. I have also now reworked the entrance to include a lift out or a fold down. I have also as sugested was to get rid of crossocers and make room for structures and scenery. Now I just need to figure elevations and bridges and buildings and othe cool stuff. Because I don't want a flat track.
Much better. I think you will want a crossover from the yellow to blue track on top side of the layout. Also, the two far left yard tracks could just come off the third track from the left instead of starting way at the top. And you might want to make a runaround somewhere for the yard.
If it was my layout, I would eliminate most of the yellow track and just have it come off the blue track near the top. The yellow industry track could start as the yard lead and then swing around the curve and down the left side. I would put a runaround on the lead or in the yard.
Doughless Much better. I think you will want a crossover from the yellow to blue track on top side of the layout. Also, the two far left yard tracks could just come off the third track from the left instead of starting way at the top. And you might want to make a runaround somewhere for the yard. If it was my layout, I would eliminate most of the yellow track and just have it come off the blue track near the top. The yellow industry track could start as the yard lead and then swing around the curve and down the left side. I would put a runaround on the lead or in the yard.
Thank you so much for your input. And yes I am starting to get what I want in my layout. Your ideas sound absolutely perfect but if you could draw some lines on my image to give me a better visual idea of what you want me to do. I work better with pictures LOL
Thank You