I have been noticing this lately as I re-ballast my track in spots.
Alton Junction
Most likely the matte medium. I´ve had that with the glue I used, which became discolored after a few years, turning into a yellowish something.
richhotrain I have been noticing this lately as I re-ballast my track in spots. The original ballast Woodland Scenics, around 10 years old, is discolored. Instead of the original gray/light gray blend, it now has a brownish cast to it. Is the fluorescent light causing this? Is it the matte medium? What is the cause? Rich
This may be interesting to note, but shouldn't be a problem on the layout. Prototype roads may have different colored ballast when it comes from differnet locations. Repairs may look quite different from the "normal" balast on the mainline. I have even planned to have some repaired spots, which will use differenet colors.
I have heard that some flourescent lighting can cause fading.
Have fun,
Richard
Hmm, matte medium, fluorescent lights, different dye lots.
All of the above?
Rich
cowman This may be interesting to note, but shouldn't be a problem on the layout. Prototype roads may have different colored ballast when it comes from differnet locations. Repairs may look quite different from the "normal" balast on the mainline. I have even planned to have some repaired spots, which will use differenet colors.
For what it's worth....I would be inclined to believe it's the matte medium, rather than the lights.
Got a lot of stuff, in my garage which has a bunch of fluorescent lights since the 80's and nothing is discolored....if that mean's anything.
Take Care!
Frank
zstripe For what it's worth....I would be inclined to believe it's the matte medium, rather than the lights.
When my club reballasted some of our older modules for the NTS in 2014, we noticed that the new light gray ballast was slightly lighter than the old ballast (we had a sample from the previously used ballast still in container).
Not sure if when people refer to the tubes whether you're talking the color temp/CRI or a more likely culprit, UV. Some tubes give off considerable UV. You can buy tubes that slip over the glass to filter it. Museums use them even with low UV tubes, because they think really long term.
That said, the UV could be reacting with either the matte medium or other bonding agent or with whatever dye is used. So it could be a combination of the two factors.
I've never had this issue with the WS ballast I have. Until a couple of years ago, I used Chroma 50 equivalent tubes (the Sylvania version). They are often used in store displays and may be low UV emitters because of that. I'll do some checking around, see what I can come up with re UV levels from tubes.
Mike Lehman
Urbana, IL
I don't mean to be rude, but would vacuuming restore the appearance? It's surprising how much dust can accumulate in what we think is a clean environment.
Wayne
Apparently at one time, there was a theory that UV from tubes was causing skin cancer. This 1999 short paper from an industry group argues against that, saying 8 hours under the tubes gives about the same UV as a minute in full sun. Still, that's enough that UV sensitive materials can be affected. in my experience. Doubt any skin cancer link, as it's usually those out on the sun that get it, not working in the office: https://www.nema.org/Policy/Environmental-Stewardship/Lamps/Documents/LSD%207%20UV%20Radiation%C2%A0%20Fluor%20Lamps%20C7.pdf
From 2012, continuing concerns about the UV/cancer link, says the FDA recommends buying UV-protective coated bulbs (??): http://losangeles.cbslocal.com/2012/10/18/study-fluorescent-light-bulbs-emit-high-levels-of-uv-radiation/
FDA fact sheet on UV in CFLs: http://www.fda.gov/Radiation-EmittingProducts/RadiationEmittingProductsandProcedures/HomeBusinessandEntertainment/ucm116400.htm
However, there is good UV:
"...skin exposure to a fairly narrow band of UV radiation, UVB between 290 and 315 nm, can promote the synthesis of vitamin D, which is necessary for proper bone development and maintenance..."
http://www.lrc.rpi.edu/programs/nlpip/lightinganswers/fullspectrum/production.asp
A study of Iranian-market CFLs show things are pretty safe with them a 10cm in almost all cases: http://www.hindawi.com/journals/ijp/2015/504674/
What people who want to sell you filters say: http://www.naturalux.com/NaturaLux_Lighting_Filters_UVinfo.htm
Probably the best balanced view of this comes from National Geographic, oddly enough....
3. CFL bulbs are dangerous because of ultraviolet radiation leakage. Two readers pointed with alarm to a 2012 study by Stony Brook University researchers, which found that most CFL bulbs have defects that allow UV radiation to leak at levels that could damage skin cells if a person is directly exposed at close range. The study’s lead researcher, materials science and engineering professor Miriam Rafailovich, told National Geographic News that she believes the defects occur during manufacturing or shipping. “This is something that could be remedied,” she said. In the meantime, she recommends that users shield the bulbs inside fixtures, stay one to two feet away from them, and avoid staring directly into the CFL bulb. That advice is basically consistent with the U.S. Food and Drug Administration’s safety recommendations. A 2009 Canadian government study found that at distances of more than 11 inches, UV radiation from a CFL isn’t any more than that of a conventional incandescent bulb. From the National Institutes of Health, here’s an analysis of the Stony Brook study and other research on CFLs and UV radiation.
http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=12&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=0CDoQFjABOAo&url=http%3A%2F%2Fenergyblog.nationalgeographic.com%2F2014%2F01%2F08%2Fseparating-myth-from-fact-on-cfls-and-leds-five-concerns-addressed%2F&ei=a8o1VZ2DEIrvoATtxIHIDg&usg=AFQjCNEQ1ScYb8sGll7_BMqo74Z6C7P8xA&bvm=bv.91386359,d.cGU
With all the info that Mike posted......I think I'll not concern myself, if mine does change colors.......I don't use fluorescent's in the layout room, so I guess I'm stuck with what I have, but I don't use matte medium....just use plain ole' WS/Alcohol mix.
All this for ballast??????????
Take care!
zstripe With all the info that Mike posted......I think I'll not concern myself, if mine does change colors.......I don't use fluorescent's in the layout room, so I guess I'm stuck with what I have, but I don't use matte medium....just use plain ole' WS/Alcohol mix. All this for ballast?????????? Take care! Frank
doctorwayne I don't mean to be rude, but would vacuuming restore the appearance? It's surprising how much dust can accumulate in what we think is a clean environment. Wayne
mlehman Not sure if when people refer to the tubes whether you're talking the color temp/CRI or a more likely culprit, UV. Some tubes give off considerable UV.
Not sure if when people refer to the tubes whether you're talking the color temp/CRI or a more likely culprit, UV. Some tubes give off considerable UV.
richhotrain zstripe With all the info that Mike posted......I think I'll not concern myself, if mine does change colors.......I don't use fluorescent's in the layout room, so I guess I'm stuck with what I have, but I don't use matte medium....just use plain ole' WS/Alcohol mix. All this for ballast?????????? Take care! Frank Frank, what do you mean by WS in W/S Alcohol mix? Rich
Frank, what do you mean by WS in W/S Alcohol mix?
I'm sorry.... Woodland scenic's ballast cement and denatured alcohol mix. Dries pretty quick, compared to other ways and is solid. Can be removed very quickly with plain denatured alcohol. I use the denatured alcohol a lot, use it on all the Tamiya acrylic's that I air brush with so I get it by the gal. sizes, which are cheaper.
Frank, has any discoloring occurred on your ballast?
richhotrainI wouldn't mind the difference being attributable to repaired locations, but what bothers me is the dull appearance of this discolored ballast. Rich
Humph...
Ballast on railroads DOES discolor with age. The reddish tint is perfectly natural and appropriate for railway ballast. Railroads are filled with iron dust from the brakes, from the couplers, from rust particles sheading from the cars, and all of this ends up on the roadbed and RUSTS there. The Ballast turns a dull red-brown.
Ergo your ballast is PURRFECT. Worry about it not at all!
Hey, Railroads live outdoors. Colors fade. And modelers are looking for the perfect color. The very idea!
ROAR
The Route of the Broadway Lion The Largest Subway Layout in North Dakota.
Here there be cats. LIONS with CAMERAS
BroadwayLion Ergo your ballast is PURRFECT. Worry about it not at all!
richhotrain Mike, when my cat gets off my lap, I will go downstairs and check the brand of fluorescent bulbs. I have 11 fixtures with 2 tubes in each. They are all the same brand.
Mike, when my cat gets off my lap, I will go downstairs and check the brand of fluorescent bulbs. I have 11 fixtures with 2 tubes in each. They are all the same brand.
I've got 29 double fixtures over my layout and don't notice any colour change in my WS ballast - put down mostly with dilute white glue, although there's also some done with matte medium. Mind you, any colour change would be subtle over, I'd guess, about 20 years.
Here's some real track, with the one on the right fairly recently laid:
Same tracks at a later date:
richhotrain Frank, has any discoloring occurred on your ballast? Rich
NOPE! As a matter of fact......The parts that I had taken up, I reballasted with WS that I just got from Walther's and they are the same color-wise. I still think it's the matte medium.
BTW: The Lion & Wayne, said it all. Lay off some ''Old Fashions'' for awhile......might be giving You too much of a rose colored outlook.
I could be a pain here and insert a reminder - I exclusively use natural stone materials for ballast, and secure them with diluted white glue. No discoloration, no problem.
Rob Spangler
wp8thsub I could be a pain here and insert a reminder - I exclusively use natural stone materials for ballast, and secure them with diluted white glue. No discoloration, no problem.
richhotrainBut, I do thank you for not rubbing it in...
You are welcome.
wp8thsub richhotrain But, I do thank you for not rubbing it in... You are welcome.
richhotrain But, I do thank you for not rubbing it in...
One more data point to add...and potential source of the issue. I've had the dregs of matte medium sit in bottles for several years before getting back to using it again. In a few cases, the matte has had something grow in it or something else that caused some brownish discoloration. I've pitched it and not applied it to my ballast. Makes me wonder if high humidity caused this to happen with Rich's ballast after it was already on the ballast. Rich probably has a pretty good idea of how much humidity he deals with, so it may turn out to be irrelevant.
Interesting point, Mike. When the bulk of my ballast was applied, it was done with fresh matte medium. As far as humidity, the basement is not highly humid, no dehumidifier, but I have had water on the floor on two relatively recent occasions, a failed sump pump switch in 2013 and a burst water heater earlier this year.
Rich,
I would think having the matte medium spread out and dried prior to the high humidity incidents would largely prevent this from getting things damp enough, long enough to discolor the ballast. You never know though. This does make me wonder what is in matte medium that might support growth of stuff -- or inhibit it...
I think your track look pretty realistic (Above). Yes, there is some brownness to the two tracks on the left; but, I think overall the effect is not something I would worry too much about! I like how you have gotten the little splotches of grass growing between the rails and along the rails on the center track especially! I am seeing some excellent modeling here and want to thanks you for sharing your modeling skills with us!
NP 2626 "Northern Pacific, really terrific"
Northern Pacific Railway Historical Association: http://www.nprha.org/