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Attaching facia board

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Attaching facia board
Posted by wickman on Saturday, January 17, 2015 4:02 PM

Hi guys

Went  to cashway today and bought a couple 4x8 sheets of  1/8 inch hardboard also called masonite.  I  had them rip it to 8" x 96"  lengths seeing  as I'm  a bit lower than 8" from benchwork bottom edge to the  roadbed . Wanted  to know how to attach the fascia board?  I have 1/2   screws and  counter sinker knowing I will  at least need to screw them to the benchwork but  also wondering do  you's use glue such as  No More Nails as well?

Thanks

Lynn

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Posted by BroadwayLion on Saturday, January 17, 2015 4:09 PM

Hi. LION puts his wiring on the fascia, and then mouts a removable fascia to finish the layout. For that you would need some stand-offs, (Lion uses wood) Glue some super magnets to the face of the standoffs, and glue a metal plate to the back of the Masonite. Can put it up or take it down as I wash.

LION  is not the sort of beast than can work under tables, that is why all of the wires are on the fascia. In other places, him just screws it into place. Glue is a nice idea, but it is a one-way solution. On curves you would need to use screws to tame your Masonite into shape. Glue and clamps wopuld work too.

Question is: do you want you fascia to look uber-finished, or "just finished enough" Will you put controls on your fascial. If so then you really do want it to be removable.

If your fascia covers a tunnel, then you will want to be able to remove it when a train lays down in there. LION runs subway train. Him has extra fascia to put in place for a rail-fan photo shoot (from the cab window), otherwise him leave it off so visitors can see the trains.

 

ROAR

The Route of the Broadway Lion The Largest Subway Layout in North Dakota.

Here there be cats.                                LIONS with CAMERAS

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Posted by wickman on Saturday, January 17, 2015 4:21 PM

BroadwayLion

Hi. LION puts his wiring on the fascia, and then mouts a removable fascia to finish the layout. For that you would need some stand-offs, (Lion uses wood) Glue some super magnets to the face of the standoffs, and glue a metal plate to the back of the Masonite. Can put it up or take it down as I wash.

LION  is not the sort of beast than can work under tables, that is why all of the wires are on the fascia. In other places, him just screws it into place. Glue is a nice idea, but it is a one-way solution. On curves you would need to use screws to tame your Masonite into shape. Glue and clamps wopuld work too.

Question is: do you want you fascia to look uber-finished, or "just finished enough" Will you put controls on your fascial. If so then you really do want it to be removable.

If your fascia covers a tunnel, then you will want to be able to remove it when a train lays down in there. LION runs subway train. Him has extra fascia to put in place for a rail-fan photo shoot (from the cab window), otherwise him leave it off so visitors can see the trains.

 

ROAR

 

Won't be covering  any tunnels with it. I will  have  to  cut in  a couple dcc panels  for the hand  controlers but thats about it. I just want to attach so I  can join up the open  perimeter from track roadbed out  to the edge and fill in with whatever, probably foamboard.  And  seeing as my isle benchwork is already 50 inches off floor I plan on keeping the edge semi flat, I;m  5-8 inches and don't need the edges any  higher. Just looking to attach it, putty in  the joining  edges  and finish with  paint.

Thanks

Lynn

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Posted by davidmurray on Saturday, January 17, 2015 4:41 PM

Lynnh:

I used steel cup washers, of the right size for your screw. This prevents driving the screw thru the masonite, it sets them up a bit, but not IMO objectionable so.

Availible in hardware section at any big box lumberyard.

Dave

David Murray from Oshawa, Ontario Canada
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Posted by last mountain & eastern hogger on Saturday, January 17, 2015 4:58 PM

Whistling

I am doing the same as Dave. I just bought 100 of the cup washers for .05 cents each at a local metal supply house. I don't mind the look of them at all.  It wasn't many years ago that all of our automobile door panel and kick panels were attached with them and we didn't find that objectionable.

Just try to get them all in line as best you can, that makes it look more professional as well.

Johnboy out..............................

from Saskatchewan, in the Great White North.. 

We have met the enemy,  and he is us............ (Pogo)

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Posted by skagitrailbird on Saturday, January 17, 2015 6:13 PM

I would stay away from glue for the two reasons previously stated--how to hold curved sections until glue sets and glue's permanancy.

I screwed mine to the benchwork with drywall screws. Then I painted it with a dark green paint. The screw heads are now almost invisible. The panels are easily removed for access to wiring, switch motors, turntable mechanics, etc.

I recessed my control panels 1/2" so that there is less chance of cothing catching on a toggle switch. They are attached with screws, the heads of which are hidden by some friction fit angle moulding not unlike a picture frame. No visible screw heads but fully removable for access if (make that when) something goes wrong.

Good luck.

Roger Johnson
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Posted by rrinker on Saturday, January 17, 2015 6:46 PM

 It depends on what the endge of your layout is like currently, before installing the fascia. My previous layout was build from box-shaped modules, so the outside edge was a long flat 1x4. To allow room for controls, I cut up 2x2 into short segments, about 6" long, for an 8" high masonite fascia, and screwed those to the outside of the 1x4. The masonite was then screwed to the 2x2's using the cup washers to make it look neat and to keep the screws from pulling right through.

 I guess this is where L girder may have an advantage over open grid, because you should have the exposed edges of joists all along the layout, which makes a ready to go (maybe after trimming to length) surface to screw the masonite to.

 Always screws - I wouldn't glue it, you never know when you might need to remove a section for access, to to make alterations to the layout, or add additional wiring, or whatever.

                   --Randy


Modeling the Reading Railroad in the 1950's

 

Visit my web site at www.readingeastpenn.com for construction updates, DCC Info, and more.

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Posted by dante on Saturday, January 17, 2015 10:44 PM

If you don't mind the looks of cup washers, then you shouldn't mind the appearance of round head or pan head screws without washers. Be reasonably careful driving the screws (phillips-head recommended) through minimum-sized holes, and you won't drive them through the Masonite. By all means layout the screws in a regularly spaced pattern, aligned with each other in both directions. If the Masonite surface is unblemished and the color relatively uniform and the joints neat and very narrow or tight, you might be satisfied without joint compound and paint. Mine looks fine without either. (And I can always change my mind later!)

Dante

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Posted by hon30critter on Sunday, January 18, 2015 4:23 AM

Dante:

You suggested that Lynn use phillips head screws.

Lynn is from CanadaYesBeer. Here in Canada we have these things called 'Robertson' screwsYesYesBeerBeer. For those who are unfamiliar, a Robertson screw has a square hole in the head and the screwdriver has a matching square tip (logically). The design means that the screw will stay on the tip all by itself (more or less) and the tip won't slip out of the screw. You have to be pretty abusive to strip the screw, so they can be inserted and removed many times without problems. They are definately an improvement over phillips screws* and infinitely superior to slot screwsThumbs Down. Mind you, if you let the screwdriver tips wear too much they don't work as well, but that is like selecting a dull blade to do cabinet work!

Anyhow, I hope you recognize that I am saying this with my tongue firmly planted in my cheek. *Drywall screws (phillips head eh!) work just about as well if your screwdriver tip is in good shape. The major advantage to the Robertson screws is that they come in a huge variety of sizes, which of course is completely irrelevant for fascia purposesDunceLaugh.

I hope Brakie doesn't take me to task the way he did the last time I dissed slot screws.Smile, Wink & GrinLaughLaughClown

Dave

I'm just a dude with a bad back having a lot of fun with model trains, and finally building a layout!

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Posted by wickman on Sunday, January 18, 2015 8:32 AM

hon30critter

Dante:

You suggested that Lynn use phillips head screws.

Lynn is from CanadaYesBeer. Here in Canada we have these things called 'Robertson' screwsYesYesBeerBeer. For those who are unfamiliar, a Robertson screw has a square hole in the head and the screwdriver has a matching square tip (logically). The design means that the screw will stay on the tip all by itself (more or less) and the tip won't slip out of the screw. You have to be pretty abusive to strip the screw, so they can be inserted and removed many times without problems. They are definately an improvement over phillips screws* and infinitely superior to slot screwsThumbs Down. Mind you, if you let the screwdriver tips wear too much they don't work as well, but that is like selecting a dull blade to do cabinet work!

Anyhow, I hope you recognize that I am saying this with my tongue firmly planted in my cheek. *Drywall screws (phillips head eh!) work just about as well if your screwdriver tip is in good shape. The major advantage to the Robertson screws is that they come in a huge variety of sizes, which of course is completely irrelevant for fascia purposesDunceLaugh.

I hope Brakie doesn't take me to task the way he did the last time I dissed slot screws.Smile, Wink & GrinLaughLaughClown

Dave

 

Yay for Robbies. The only time I  use phillips  screws is for putting up  drywall.

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Posted by wickman on Sunday, January 18, 2015 8:43 AM

Thanks guys for  providing enough   information  for  me to  get  started. I hung my forst 8 foot section  loosely for fit and to test the bends. Seems I need to stick to  using my torque wrench working on my bikes as I already snapped two pieces  finding out the limits. Just need  to run out this fine snowy morning and get a counter sinker  and longer robertson screws,  the screws I have  are 1-1/4 length  and would be too  long with not enough  threads and  the others I  have are 3/4 length and I don't think they would hold  the stress ( so many bends).

First corner to cut back

 

cut out  but still  needed more  plus better edges

Seemed the right thing to do 

 

 

 

To  hold back  the  length in place  into the curves

 

 

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Posted by bogp40 on Sunday, January 18, 2015 10:40 AM

It's a good idea to at least prime (one coat of finish if desired) before installing facia (backdrop as well). This helps prevent any major buckling if any humidity is ever present.

Modeling B&O- Chessie  Bob K.  www.ssmrc.org

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Posted by rrebell on Sunday, January 18, 2015 10:49 AM

I used a carpet stapler for mine, if done right countersinks all in one.

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Posted by wickman on Sunday, January 18, 2015 10:52 AM

rrebell

I used a carpet stapler for mine, if done right countersinks all in one.

Thats a very good idea. I went and  bought a counter sinker and then with a  second thought also bought the screw rings so there  is  no counter sinking  needed or filling in holes.

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Posted by wickman on Sunday, January 18, 2015 10:53 AM

Thanks for the tip Bob, I will be painting  when done.

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Posted by dante on Sunday, January 18, 2015 9:42 PM

Dave,

We have Robertsons here in the US also, but just not as common. I would have no problem with those, either, but I find the PHs perfectly adequate.

Dante

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Posted by wickman on Sunday, January 18, 2015 10:20 PM

Went pretty good  today, I ended up using no more nails for an adhesive and the screws and cup washers. One of the two layout rooms is pretty much done.  Just need to workout how to  trim  the tops down for the terrain.Sure makes a major impact on the layout and will make it much simpler to fill in from the  edge of layout  inward.







 

Thanks again for all  the great input.

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Posted by hon30critter on Monday, January 19, 2015 1:11 AM

Looks really good Lynn!

You sure don't waste any time getting things done.

By the way, that's a very well done earthquake scene in the third picture down!Smile, Wink & GrinLaugh

Dave

I'm just a dude with a bad back having a lot of fun with model trains, and finally building a layout!

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Posted by hon30critter on Monday, January 19, 2015 1:19 AM

Dante:

I hope you took my post in jest, as it was intended. In reality, Robertson screws and bits quite often don't work as nicely as theory would suggest. If the specs are off even a tiny bit then it's easy to strip the screw head. If you get a bad batch of screws the only thing they are good for is fishing weights.

Dave

I'm just a dude with a bad back having a lot of fun with model trains, and finally building a layout!

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Posted by bagal on Monday, January 19, 2015 3:05 AM

I prefer the flusk look rather than the raised screw look. Was pretty straightforward to use glue and air stapler.

 

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Posted by wickman on Monday, January 19, 2015 9:03 AM

hon30critter

Looks really good Lynn!

You sure don't waste any time getting things done.

By the way, that's a very well done earthquake scene in the third picture down!Smile, Wink & GrinLaugh

Dave

 

Thanks Dave, there seems to  be a  steady  earthquake  of around 3 going on.Tongue Tied

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Posted by wickman on Monday, January 19, 2015 9:06 AM

bagal

I prefer the flusk look rather than the raised screw look. Was pretty straightforward to use glue and air stapler.

 

 

I'm a die hard Harley guy so I quickly grew attached to the shiney look.Big Smile

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Posted by BroadwayLion on Monday, January 19, 2015 9:33 AM

Somebody uses virgin wood!

Will not find THAT on the Route of the LION!

 

ROAR

The Route of the Broadway Lion The Largest Subway Layout in North Dakota.

Here there be cats.                                LIONS with CAMERAS

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Posted by wickman on Monday, January 19, 2015 10:15 AM

BroadwayLion

Somebody uses virgin wood!

Will not find THAT on the Route of the LION!

 

ROAR

 

Only because thats all the lumber store had.Big Smile

Last layout  went in the fire pit, or most  of the lumber  anyway.

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Posted by dante on Monday, January 19, 2015 10:08 PM

hon30critter

Dante:

I hope you took my post in jest, as it was intended. In reality, Robertson screws and bits quite often don't work as nicely as theory would suggest. If the specs are off even a tiny bit then it's easy to strip the screw head. If you get a bad batch of screws the only thing they are good for is fishing weights.

Dave

 

Dave,

I certainly did; no offense was taken!

Dante

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Posted by wickman on Tuesday, January 20, 2015 3:19 PM
Guys any ideas what I can use to protect the inside of the fascia for when I start using a water / glue mix for a fixative for the scenery?
Thanks
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Posted by BroadwayLion on Tuesday, January 20, 2015 3:25 PM

wickman
Guys any ideas what I can use to protect the inside of the fascia for when I start using a water / glue mix for a fixative for the scenery?
Thanks

 

You can paint the hardboard before you install it. Shellac is also supposed to work.

LION has not used shellac since the second grade.

ROAR

The Route of the Broadway Lion The Largest Subway Layout in North Dakota.

Here there be cats.                                LIONS with CAMERAS

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Posted by bogp40 on Tuesday, January 20, 2015 5:04 PM

wickman
Guys any ideas what I can use to protect the inside of the fascia for when I start using a water / glue mix for a fixative for the scenery?
Thanks
 

Another reason that I previously mentioned priming the panels (both sides, and possibly 1 finish coat of choice) before installation. Water from plaster and other scenery work is not that bad for tempered masonite, however MDF, paneling or other plywood needs protection.

Modeling B&O- Chessie  Bob K.  www.ssmrc.org

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Posted by wickman on Thursday, January 22, 2015 1:07 PM

bogp40

 

 
wickman
Guys any ideas what I can use to protect the inside of the fascia for when I start using a water / glue mix for a fixative for the scenery?
Thanks
 

 

 

Another reason that I previously mentioned priming the panels (both sides, and possibly 1 finish coat of choice) before installation. Water from plaster and other scenery work is not that bad for tempered masonite, however MDF, paneling or other plywood needs protection.

 

Thanks Bob  , that  makes perfect  scence now.

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Posted by CandOsteam on Thursday, January 22, 2015 9:19 PM

wickman

Hi guys

Went  to cashway today and bought a couple 4x8 sheets of  1/8 inch hardboard also called masonite.  I  had them rip it to 8" x 96"  lengths seeing  as I'm  a bit lower than 8" from benchwork bottom edge to the  roadbed . Wanted  to know how to attach the fascia board?  I have 1/2   screws and  counter sinker knowing I will  at least need to screw them to the benchwork but  also wondering do  you's use glue such as  No More Nails as well?

Thanks

Lynn

 

Lynn,

Agree with everyone, definitely no permanent attachment because you always want to have access.  I have flowing facia on my C&O, but this was a bit of a trick because my open grid framework is very angular.  The first picture shows what I mean and the wood bracket I designed to get the job done.

This is what the other side of this bracket looks like.  BTW, I love Robertson screws and use them on my facia--gives me that industrial but finished look. Smile, Wink & Grin

Finally, I use this kind of bracket for none-curving parts of my facia.

Love working with wood (amateur furniture maker).

Joel

Modeling the C&O New River Subdivision circa 1949 for the fun of it!

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