Fiddle Yards vs Staging Yards

[Train Modeler]

I've been doing some typical Christmas time model railroad reading recently.   I've discovered that my layout is woefully inadequate for operations due to not having enough off line staging.   In my reading it seems that yards are counted as storage and so can't help you with moving cars, unless you guarantee to never leave cars on that track.  I can see some merit in that because it's hard to break down and make up trains using yard track that is already occupied-lol.   There's really nothing new here except that it seems in today's operations sessions we don't have fiddle yards.   We can only use the giant helping hand for our offline staging yards.   I have added some staging but also use it online as a destination--port.

I really don't see that much difference in the practical operational impact of a fiddle yard vs staging yard.   I understand that offline staging yards allow for all "the hands on" movements to go unseen and so help create a more complete prototypical feel.  

So, my question is--how many still use some type of fiddle yard?  Where the giant helping hand can move cars onto and off of an online yard. 

Thanks,Richard

[MisterBeasley]

This is my staging yard, still under construction:

The far left track will be extended another 6 feet, and will be a branch line.  The other 4 stop where they are.

In this case, "fiddling" is a bit awkward because of the overhanging roofline and tight track spacing.  I plan to put a liftoff scenic cover over all but that branch line, but it will be removeable.

I'm still working out this operations stuff myself.  This is a single-ended yard, so trains will return facing the wrong direction and will need to be turned somehow.  The branch line track looks to be a good spot for manual handling, after which the train could be briefly taken out and then backed into the staging tracks again.  Or, I could just tie up the main and back them in.

[wmshay06]

Richard..

I actually use both - a hidden staging yard for the trains and GHA (Giant Hand Action) to a fiddle yard/storage area for cars.  Before the start of each op session new cars are routed into each train via an interchange track using GHA, old cars taken off (that GHA again), and the train run back to staging.  Once all are 'reloaded' the session can start.

Charles

[wp8thsub]

The fiddle yard concept is employed on my layout - in staging.  Most of the time I see fiddle yards they are part of the off-line staging as opposed to on-line modeled locations.

Trains that enter my staging are re-staged during the session.  Unit trains like auto parts, TOFC, and coal stay together, and may only have the power and cabooses changed end-for end.  General freights are broken down - the "waybill" is flipped to the next side and the cars are flat-switched by destination so new trains can be built from them.

Train Modeler

In my reading it seems that yards are counted as storage and so can't help you with moving cars, unless you guarantee to never leave cars on that track.

I don't see it that way, but we could be reading from different sources.  A yard is much like an in-box and out-box.  Cars arrive, get sorted according to where they go next, then move on.  They don't come in to stay.

[mlehman]

wp8thsub

I don't see it that way, but we could be reading from different sources. A yard is much like an in-box and out-box. Cars arrive, get sorted according to where they go next, then move on. They don't come in to stay.

Rob,

I suspect he's reading where yards are often treated as storage, even though that tends to tie things up.

Richard,

Fiddle and staging yards can refer to differrent things. Fiddle is all about handling cars onto the layout in some location designated as for that, whether visible or staged.

Staging yards can also be either visible or hidden. The tendency when using them is to handle entire trains or cuts of cars. However, they're also an opportunity to handle cars on and off the layout, same basic thing as fiddle yards. That's how my staging works.

Something to consider in designing a staging yard where you want to fiddle is making sure you have and outside track or two where that can be easily up front, rather like Mr. B does. He has the sloping ceiling overhead that doesn't help with reaching the far side tracks, but essentially the same principle is involved once you get beyond the first few tracks.

Those far side tracks work well, however, for things like passenger trains, unit trains and others that typically require little handling to reset.

Track spacing is another difference. With fiddling, you need to be able to reach in and pick up easily. Thus you need tracks whose centers are far enough apart so you can reach in and grab 'em.

With staging only tracks, you can really pack them in close. Once built, a train from the front tracks can then be moved to back tracks or elsewhere with tighter spacing. Staging tracks can also serve as receiving tracks. Then you move the trains to easy reach tracks to be broken down and reset. This can also affect you planning and design and needs to be taken into consideration

[riogrande5761]

Mine, under construction, is meant to be staging and not much fiddling since it's not fiddle friendly, although I might do what Rob does, and switch ends of the train - change the caboose for the power:

 

[carl425]

Train Modeler

So, my question is--how many still use some type of fiddle yard? Where the giant helping hand can move cars onto and off of an online yard.

 

Hi Richard,

 

I do not believe in fiddling.  For me it's not about fidelity to the prototype.  I just don't believe most railroad models survive repeated handling.  There is a reasonable likelihood of some unintended consequence every time you touch a model.  The more tightly packed they are (like in yards), the more likely.  Fingers bend, break or dislodge detail parts - many of which end up being lost forever.  The adjacent cars are often derailed which results in more handling or even worse the derailment goes unnoticed until the next operating session.

 

I am a huge believer in staging, but once a model is placed on the track, my goal (however lofty) is to never touch it again.

 

[mlehman]

carl425

I do not believe in fiddling.  For me it's not about fidelity to the prototype.  I just don't believe most railroad models survive repeated handling.  SNIP

I am a huge believer in staging, but once a model is placed on the track, my goal (however lofty) is to never touch it again.

That's an admirable goal. If you can either restrict yourself to buying no more rolling stock than fits on the layout or you can keep building storage tracks for everything, you'll be able to meet it.

More practically, most of us have more rolling stock than will fit. While I understand your concerns, running repairs due to mishandling happens even when the 0-5-0 is not involved on the prototype. We're just able to pick up and fix our mistakes when that's often not possible expeditiously on the 1:1.

Another way to address this issues to is make good provisions for the fiddle yard. Have easy access to storage near the layout, room to work along the tracks involved (finger space I already noted, but there are other ways to enhance the work environment), plenty of good light to help you size things up to get wheels on the track, etc. Yeah, things get broke in real life, so minimizing that, then repairing what must be is another set of solutions that more find affordable and easier to do than holding back on rolling stock or building more storage yards.

[tomikawaTT]

I don't see this as a, "Versus," situation.  Properly, all, "Fiddling," should be done in staging, away from the visible part of the railroads.

OTOH, not all staged trains require fiddling, so it isn't necessary to provide 'Hand of God' access to every track.  Some pre-planning can arrange to get all the fiddling done in a specific, limited area, even when total staging capacity (in complete trains) rivals that of the Argentine Yard.

So, what do I have, and what do I do?

Passenger staging is all but impossible to access.  The only fiddling involves adding or cutting out a self-propelled diner from a DMU express train - handled with judiciously placed track gaps and uncoupling magnets, visible through a judiciously placed slit in the fascia.

EMU staging involves assembly/disassembly of five cars into trains of two, three or four cars.  Once again, facilitated by judiciously placed track gaps and uncoupling magnets, and a couple of extra crossovers.  The area is visible (window in fascia) and the topside scenery is removable.

Through freights (nine trains, twenty carlength equivalents, plus locomotives) are impossible to fiddle.  Changes are limited to changing the waybills in car cards.

Local freights (eight trains, twelve carlength equivalents, plus locomotives) in staging cannot be fiddled.  However, there is a cassette dock, accessible to both combustion and catenary locals, that allows a complete local train to be backed into a cassette when fiddling is required.  Several of those cassettes are specifically designed to allow carloads of loose 'coal' to be dumped, while trains in others can have open top loads 'adjusted' or cars pulled for maintenance or simply to change consists.  The cassettes are my answer to, "Too much rolling stock for the capacity of the layout."  Not all cassetted cuts of cars are accompanied by a locomotive.  I store cassettes, loaded and empty, on shelf brackets on the adjacent wall.  There is one short cassette used to transport rolling stock between the layout and the worktop in my 'office/shop' in the climate controlled part of the house.

Two things which I have done that are totally reversed to most people's experience:

1. I'm building/operating to a master plan that recently celebrated its fiftieth birthday.
2. Since I knew what I would need, I designed the 'netherworld' of staging, thoroughfares and cassette handling FIRST.

Chuck (Modeling Central Japan in September, 1964 - and the rest of Japan in hidden staging)

[tedtedderson]

mlehman

 

 even when the 0-5-0 is not involved .  

 

[jmbjmb]

No photo to show, but my current staging "yard" operates as a fiddle yard.  However it's only one track about four cars long.  My plan for the eventual yard is it will be an interchange junction which will act as visible staging.  Cars will be fiddled off and on between ops to provide inbounds or outbounds.  But as far as the switch crew arriving, those cars they left yesterday are gone and these new ones were dropped over last night by the "other" railroad. 

 

jim

[doctorwayne]

mlehman

 

 

carl425

I do not believe in fiddling.  For me it's not about fidelity to the prototype.  I just don't believe most railroad models survive repeated handling.  SNIP

I am a huge believer in staging, but once a model is placed on the track, my goal (however lofty) is to never touch it again.That's an admirable goal. If you can either restrict yourself to buying no more rolling stock than fits on the layout or you can keep building storage tracks for everything, you'll be able to meet it.

More practically, most of us have more rolling stock than will fit. While I understand your concerns, running repairs due to mishandling happens even when the 0-5-0 is not involved on the prototype. We're just able to pick up and fix our mistakes when that's often not possible expeditiously on the 1:1.

Another way to address this issues to is make good provisions for the fiddle yard. Have easy access to storage near the layout, room to work along the tracks involved (finger space I already noted, but there are other ways to enhance the work environment), plenty of good light to help you size things up to get wheels on the track, etc. Yeah, things get broke in real life, so minimizing that, then repairing what must be is another set of solutions that more find affordable and easier to do than holding back on rolling stock or building more storage yards.

Well, I call mine staging tracks, but they're meant to be fiddled.  Trains are built or broken down manually, and most cars will cycle on and off the railroad, as the yards are stacked over the car storage shelves.  Even "unit trains" (a thrice weekly coal train - this is the '30s) from the lowest staging tracks to the highest must be manually removed and emptied of their live loads at the power plant and the empties replaced for return to lowest staging.  There they're removed (sent for re-loading) and newly loaded ones placed.
The trains which enter a staging yard usually get their cars removed - exceptions are in-bound cars for delivery to local industries.

The photo below shows most of the staging areas.  The upper level represents the north end of the line and connections to other roads.  Access to the layout is at the far end, across the aisle on a lift-out.
Below that is south end staging and also a connection to "elsewhere".  Access to the layout is to the right, through a semi-concealed opening in the backdrop.

Immediately below that are two non-fiddled staging tracks.  They receive cars from the staging yard directly above, via switcher movements.  These two tracks represent industries - 2 industries or 10 industries or even 200 if I wish - the tracks are simply traffic generators, accepting inbound loads and empties and originating the same, all via switcher between here and south staging.

The two tracks on the lowest level represent an interchange railroad.  This is the source of the loaded coal trains and the destination for the empties, plus a lot of general freight and a couple of short passenger trains.  Access to the layout is at the far end, over a lift-out.

As you can see, car storage is directly below the staging yards.  Locomotives, however, will stay on the layout unless they require service or repairs.  All staging tracks are single-ended, so once the newly arrived cars have been returned to storage, the locomotives can escape to be turned:  on a turntable across the aisle for north staging, and for south staging, a short jaunt back onto the layout for turning on a wye.
 
There'll be another interchange, slightly more fully-modelled, on another part of the upper level.  Its staging/fiddle area will be in another room, and there'll be both freight and passenger traffic.

While most of my rolling stock has added details, they were built to be handled (carefully, of course) and, since I am the only operator, that shouldn't pose a problem.  If anything is damaged, it can be repaired.

 

Wayne

[mlehman]

Interesting set-up you have there, Wayne. I dug around and found a few pics of my staging area. This pic is of the "East" end, where I have a small workbench next to my programming track. You can see where I'm sorting through things here.

There are 5 tracks here, then two more on the other side of the wall under mountains on the layout, which you can see the entrance to in the next pic.

Here is one of the two big drawer units that sit under the far end of the staging tracks abobe.

 

[Capt. Grimek]

I don't know if this will be much help to the O.P., but I have four tracks in staging. 3 are double ended so that locos (steam mostly) can cut off to the r.h. on the other side of the room and return to the "new" front of a standing train by backing on to it via an adjacent engine only track.

I have one fiddle track on the aisle so that new trains can be built easily and quickly on a more "improvisational" basis.  So-a combination of both.

My staging is visible under the main benchwork. So operators can pretend they don't see it or can bend over a bit to keep an eye on things.

Jim

[mlehman]

Capt. Grimek

My staging is visible under the main benchwork. So operators can pretend they don't see it or can bend over a bit to keep an eye on things.

Americans tend to have lots more space for hobbies like model railroading. In Europe, but especially so in the UK, fiddle yards and such are often divided from the rest of the layout only by a view block like a large industry on a flat or something similar. Most simply do not have the luxury of a separate staging area remote from the rest of the layout, so the imagination.

A few more comments on my staging area in the pics above. It's all standard gauge here in these pics. Narrowgauge staging is priimarily from Chama, which is a two track return loop under Durango; each track is able to hold 2 or 3 trains. Most are double-ended, so a lot easier to navigate. My staging is controlled by NCE Switch 8 turnout controllers and Macros configured to allow easy access to various tracks.

[fmilhaupt]

The fiddle yard is key to the flexibility of the operating sessions on the Operations Road Show layout.

It is seldom this empty or neat.

During sessions, we have one or two guys back here, behind the backdrop between the east (Peru, Indiana) and west (Lafayette, Indiana) ends of the layout.

While having the fiddle yard between the ends of the layout makes it possible to just swap power and send a train that has just come in back out for another lap, we rarely do that, since seeing the same block of cars come out and run east-to-west again during a session spoils the effect of being along a part of a busy mainline.

Since we have no locomotive terminals modeled on the visible portion of the layout, this is the only place on the railroad where we make up or break down locomotive consists, so operating crews are spared that bit of "model railroad thinking". Having one or two guys back here during a session also provides someone who can go out and troubleshoot any of the things that can go wrong during an operating session, without having to distract the dispatcher or operator.

Our fiddle yard guys also go out and stage inbound cars on interchange tracks, and retrieve cars that have been set out at interchanges during the sessions.

The biggest advantage we have seen to having an active fiddle yard is the ability to add more trains if more crews show up for a session than the schedule requires. It also makes it easy to consolidate trains to compensate for ones that may be abolished if not enough crews turn out.

[mobilman44]

Hi,

IMO, I think the solution depends on the room available, and of course the number of cars/locos you want to readily run.

In my case, the layout fills an 11x15 room (operator in the center), and my yard is good for a max of 35 cars or so.  

However, I built in a lower level staging area (accessed via 2 percent grade) that goes from one track to six stub ends.  Those 6 can hold 60 plus cars. 

So its easy to shuffle trains from the lower staging onto the main level, and effectively doubles the amount of rolling stock I can play with.

[Bob Schuknecht]

I do a lot of fiddling on my layout. Every train that goes to staging(including engines) gets rotated off the layout. Also, every car sent to an interchange gets rotated.

[Train Modeler]

Most of what I've been reading is about building the layout to mathematical performance standards.  And these "newer" standards really encourage you to replace the traditional yard with a hidden staging yard to increase the number of cars you can move.  And that I think is because the underlying assumption is that the traditional online yard is clogged and therefore really acts like storage.   Also, these types of layout seems to be more of a point to point design. 

Of course if you keep your yards about 25 to say 50% full then you can use them to varying degrees to makeup and break down trains,etc.  A lot of the cars on our layout have online origin and destination so don't require removal and replacement.  But in my case one of my online yards I also use as a type of interchange area to the ROW where the helping hand removes and replaces cars for the next op or maybe even during an op(staging or I call it fiddling).  

Maybe we are different because we have a lot of origin and destination sites on the layout whereas most are either origin OR destination to the ROW???  Maybe this is another assumption of the mathematical models??  

I can see with the longer trains that a dedicated staging area helps.  Most of my trains run modern longer cars, so a 20 unit train is about 20 feet long.  Most of our trains are between 10 and 20 cars since the passing sidings are only about 12 feet long.   

One thing I've noticed is that having added some staging is that I need more hands to operate the layout-lol. 

Richard

[wp8thsub]

Train Modeler

Most of what I've been reading is about building the layout to mathematical performance standards.  And these "newer" standards really encourage you to replace the traditional yard with a hidden staging yard to increase the number of cars you can move.  And that I think is because the underlying assumption is that the traditional online yard is clogged and therefore really acts like storage.

I'm not sure I'd put much stock in that reading material then.  Operation is among my major hobby interests, and I just don't see most reputable designers or ops enthusiasts promoting the above.  Many of us enjoy modeling yard operations.  If an author suggests eliminating a modeled yard in favor of staging to avoid the yard filling up with stored cars, that sounds like terrible advice from somebody who doesn't know what he's talking about.

The major reason for staging is to allow trains to move beyond the modeled layout to connections to the rest of the rail network.  Staging doesn't necessarily allow for more cars to be used, nor does it always require more operators, but it does allow for a more realistic flow of traffic.  If your ops emphasize on-layout moves, staging connections may be less important.

If a modeled yard is becoming clogged and/or used as storage, the operating scheme isn't making appropriate use of it, the yard isn't designed well, or perhaps both.  My layout uses active staging, but also has one major yard and another smaller one for classification, block swaps and other typical yard functions (e.g. originating and terminating certain trains, locomotive service), plus a still smaller industry yard.  None of these truly fill up during a session as blocks are regularly being picked up and moved to their destinations.  Nearly all of my traffic either originates or terminates in staging, however, and there are very few on-layout moves in between.

[Train Modeler]

Here is one of the key equations.

Number of Cars moved in typical operating cycle = 40%(stagingX2+passing track+connecting track).  Connecting track is a sum of lengths of track not used for mainline, storage, passing, yard, service--it mainly consists of track around turnouts where you can't park a train and other track like leads to industry yards, etc.    Note that there is no yard mentioned because it's classified as storage.  If you guarantee to leave a particular track empty in your yard then you can include that in the connecting track category.  

Richard

[cuyama]

Train Modeler

Most of what I've been reading is about building the layout to mathematical performance standards. And these "newer" standards really encourage you to replace the traditional yard with a hidden staging yard to increase the number of cars you can move.

Just a few clarifications.
1) Those aren’t “newer” calculations. They are slightly modified versions of Dr. Roy Dohn’s calculations from a Model Railroader article in June 1968.
2) They aren’t “standards”. Most of the builders of excellent operating layouts didn’t use them in designing their layouts and an analysis of those layouts would not match the “standard” ratios
3) The results aren’t useful as a design tool. I can easily design two layouts, each of which would match the recommended “standards” in terms of classification of each type of track, but one would be a great operating layout and the other would be a mess. Designing an interesting operating layout requires much more care in traffic flows, train interaction, etc., than is provided by a simple classification and calculation of track types.
4) These calculations don’t account for different types of real-life and model operating scenarios. A terminal-style switching operation would have very different ratios than would a prairie mainline operation. Does that mean they are “wrong”? Of course not -- only that efficient operations on the prototype and interesting operations on the model require vastly different physical plants depending on the kind of railroading involved. Era and locale matter, too.

Train Modeler

And these "newer" standards really encourage you to replace the traditional yard with a hidden staging yard to increase the number of cars you can move.

That would not be my reading of the ratios -- and not my personal experience in designing, and operating on, many layouts. Some layout concepts really need a visible operating yard, others don't. Almost any design can be improved with some kind of staging, but that doesn't rule out a visible yard.

If you feel it works for you, great. But I've seen the ratios applied with good intentions -- and poor results. The calculations seem attractive to those with a scientific or engineering mindset, but designing successful layouts and op sessions requires more creativity, IMHO.

[Train Modeler]

cuyama

Train Modeler And these "newer" standards really encourage you to replace the traditional yard with a hidden staging yard to increase the number of cars you can move. That would not be my reading of the ratios -- and not my personal experience in designing, and operating on, many layouts. Some layout concepts really need a visible operating yard, others don't. Almost any design can be improved with some kind of staging, but that doesn't rule out a visible yard. If you feel it works for you, great. But I've seen the ratios applied with good intentions -- and poor results. The calculations seem attractive to those with a scientific or engineering mindset, but designing successful layouts and op sessions requires more creativity, IMHO.

 

Cuyama,

I'm not at all saying these formulas are the way to go.  As a matter of fact, I don't really agree with them in many ways.  It's interesting however to discuss different approach's pros and cons to layout design.  I also agree with a lot of what you said.

Richard

[brisweed]

I have a small layout which I originally conceived as an oval divided by a backdrop. One side would be scenicked and the other side would be staging. What happened eventually is that during operating sessions, I found myself spending about half the time switching on the staging side. As it turns out, it's very easy for me to "immagineer" distant destinations. Since any yard track can be utilized as a departure/ arrival track, why not just designate a couple tracks in your setup as "staging" tracks where southbound trains are fiddled off the layout, and northbound trains are fiddled on? Lots of small layouts have an interchange track where cars can be fiddled off and on to represent cuts of cars left by an "off scene" railroad. I use my unscenicked yard in the same way, but here's the thing- why does it have to be unscenicked? Needless to say, scenery is now creeping around the backdrop, and showing up in "staging." By the way, this two sided layout concept enables two operators to work a very small layout. You work a train, i.e. switch your industries and block your train for distant destinations. then you "pass it" around the backdrop to your buddy who continues the train's work in another scene. Meanwhile your buddy passes you a different train, so you are both working trains on opposite sides of the backdrop. In my opinion this offers more "play value" per layout space than having just one operating scene, with sort of blank staging on the other side.

[brisweed]

More thoughts on fiddling vs. staging: I originally built the scenicked side of my layout with remote controlled turnouts, while in "staging" I used simple ground throws. My thinking was that my giant hand entering the n scale scene would be disruptive. But since my prototype (Alaska Railroad) doesn't have any remotely controlled switches, I found that it  actually felt more realistic to stop the train and switch ground throws by hand, after all that's what the real train crews do. Also, a lot of my industries feature open top loads. The only realistic way to unload those n scale coal loads, pipe loads, lumber, tofc, etc. is at their respective industry. All my open top loads are magnetic, so I can reach in and unload the cars without lifting them off the track. But there I go again, with my giant hands in the scene! Come to think of it, I'm sure some model railroaders would be appalled to watch me operate. When it comes to details like trucks, cranes, forklifts, cars, and people, I'm using my whole layout as a more or less constant fiddle yard at the begining, middle, and end of the operating session.

[NP2626]

Train Modeler

I've been doing some typical Christmas time model railroad reading recently.   I've discovered that my layout is woefully inadequate for operations due to not having enough off line staging.   In my reading it seems that yards are counted as storage and so can't help you with moving cars, unless you guarantee to never leave cars on that track.  I can see some merit in that because it's hard to break down and make up trains using yard track that is already occupied-lol.   There's really nothing new here except that it seems in today's operations sessions we don't have fiddle yards.   We can only use the giant helping hand for our offline staging yards.   I have added some staging but also use it online as a destination--port.

I really don't see that much difference in the practical operational impact of a fiddle yard vs staging yard.   I understand that offline staging yards allow for all "the hands on" movements to go unseen and so help create a more complete prototypical feel.  

So, my question is--how many still use some type of fiddle yard?  Where the giant helping hand can move cars onto and off of an online yard. 

Thanks,Richard

I do.  As far as Fiddle Yard VS Staging Yards are concerned (and I can see my getting into trouble for this) my opinion is, they are one and the same.  Even though my lower go-to, come-from yard is somewhat hidden, I still do a lot of fiddling (Handling) there.  That people seem to think there are; or, need to be clear definitions for things, is only important if you think it needs to be.

[John Busby]

Hi all

Fiddle yard UK English :- American Translation Staging yard.

They are one and the same thing a place where trains are sorted made up and broken up before entering or after leaving the modeld part of the railway.

They can be sceniced or un sceniced, visable or hidden single or double ended, small or large, track or cassets but what ever method is used

The only difference between them is national origin and spelling.

The fiddle yard is UK the staging yard is USA and as I said they both do exactly the same thing.

So if you choose one you automaticaly have the other

regards John

 

[Tony Wright]

Train Modeler:

A prototype rail yard is a living and breathing thing.  Few have room for long time "storage".  (Does not necessarily include work trains that are perhaps "stored" until needed...or bad order cars or "mothballed motive power" in larger yards." 

As often as not, yards "hold" cars for a short period of time, perhaps 24-48 hours in most cases, but sometimes until there is a spot in a train that will be working set outs and pick ups along the track where the destination for a specific car is located.  Otherwise, thru cars get put on the next train with room for the tonnage...based on priority and scheduled delivery date.

Staging/fiddle yards are "model world requirements to simulate the rest of the world located off the modeled portion of the layhout."

If you want all your cars on the layout at the same time...well, there is not much I can do except suggest you reduce the number of cars and everytime you buy a new car, you sell and old one.

A "staging or fiddle track" can be your main line between operating sessions.  Trains come from some place and are going some where. Cars pause long enugh to be loaded or unloaded before they continue their seemingly endless trips across the country.  They rarely live in a yard waiting to get taken to a shipper.

 

[mlehman]

John Busby

The fiddle yard is UK the staging yard is USA and as I said they both do exactly the same thing. So if you choose one you automaticaly have the otherBig Smile

John,

I'm with you and NP2626 on not getting too hung up on terminology. But the two concepts overlap more like a Venn diagram rather than represent the exact same thing. If you want a fiddle yard, but build it like some staging yards are built with no space for fingers between tracks, you'll have a hard time reaching in and picking up/placing down cars -- unless you leave the tracks on either side empty. That's not very efficient, though.

So it does pay to figure out what you're trying to do with the yard. It can easily be both, but only if you plan for it. It won't happen automatically.

[riogrande5761]

John Busby

Hi all

Fiddle yard UK English :- American Translation Staging yard.

They are one and the same thing a place where trains are sorted made up and broken up before entering or after leaving the modeld part of the railway.

They can be sceniced or un sceniced, visable or hidden single or double ended, small or large, track or cassets but what ever method is used

The only difference between them is national origin and spelling.

The fiddle yard is UK the staging yard is USA and as I said they both do exactly the same thing.

So if you choose one you automaticaly have the other

regards John

I just returned from the UK and visited a prolific modeler with several operational layouts in his basement and on another night a club with a bunch of layouts above a auto shop.  I was able to see examples of fiddle yards on many of those.  I'd say the difference between fiddle yards and staging yards is size and capacity.  The fiddle yards are usually much smaller and shorter in length due to the restrictions in space across the pond.

So yes, technically they are the same and serve essentially the same purpose, but the the size and capacity is generally much less on a fiddle yard.