Hi,
Just moved back to the Chicago area a year or so ago and anxious to get into the hobby. New to the forum thing. Always loved trains since I was a kid but never had a chance to have my own layout. I have a two car garage where I will dedicate one part of it to my upcoming layout. My questions to the forum is this? Can I model or is it possible to create a layout that can handle Amtrak Superliners, Walthers Amfleet, and Metra Bi-levels in a smaller area. The space I would have to work with is probably somewhere around 12-13' ft long by 10-11 ft wide. I need to have room to still access my car so thats what Im working with. I know the Kato Metra/RTA bi-levels can handle smaller curves because my friend has a smaller layout and they take the 18'' radius curves with no problem, however i know Walthers need 24-28 minumum radius to run.
Don't really care about aesthetics such as car overhang as long as the cars will run. I want something with continuous running so point to point is out per se, though I do want sidings for freight operations. I mostly want urban/suburban/ and or downtown scenery. What do u guys think?
Quan
Hey Quan
Im surprised no one has welcomed you to the forum but let me be the first to welcome you. It has been a couple of months since I been on here but this is a great place to get answers. Many of the posters have years of knowledge. I also like Amtrak and Metra. I had a layout but had to dismantle it due to the flood. My layout was 5x9' and i had some 22'' radius and 18'' inches as well. I modeled the John Armstrong's Granite Gorge and Northern and what advice I can lend is the Walther's cars will not run on 22'' very well. Had many issues with those derailing and the diaphrams and couplers getting caught on each other with the Amtrak cars. Kato on the other hand supplies two types of couplers and they ran fine, especially the Metra Bi-levels. Miss my layout but hope you have fun!
Regg
Welcome!
You didn't mention scale, but your comments about curve radius required by various equipment tells me you're thinking HO scale. Your comments also seem to emphasize passenger operations over freight. Here are my first two thoughts:
1. Along your longest wall, you would put the south approach to Union Station, with the coach yards as your primary modeled section. The Chicago River would be at the opposite end of the room, in relation to Union Station. The track could go around the room and re-emerge from Union station for continuous running. The wall opposite the coach yard could feature one or two commuter stations. The coach yard would be extremely crowded in that space in HO scale, and it might be too crowded to look right. While I model in HO, I'm tempted to suggest that you'd have a better chance of making the coach yard area look right in your available space if you do it in N scale.
2. Since the actual Chicago downtown area would take so much space, you might consider this: A twice-around loop, with one of the loops being below the other. The hidden section could contain a staging area where made-up trains wait to go on stage. The upper, exposed loop would represent two or three of your favorite commuter/suburban stations. This could be done effectively in either N or HO, but probably not in O scale within the space you propose. This plan could also allow for the operation of some freight traffic.
I'm sure others will have some good ideas. Best of luck in your new venture.
Tom
Although it is a bit larger than your space, you might find some useful ideas in my 8'X20' HO plan published in Kalmbach’s Model Railroad Planning 2014. Rather than focus on the large Union Station operation, it centered on the former Chicago and NorthWestern lines from Northwestern Station (now the “UP-W” line from the Olgivie Transportation Center). So it does not have the Amtrak traffic, but this could be added with a little “modeler’s license”.
As others have suggested, it is a twice-around design to allow for more running length in less space. The design also includes some freight operating potential.
Because your space is smaller, you couldn’t use the plan as drawn – the grades would be unworkable. But there might be an idea or two there that you could use.
Fred Soop described his (much larger) HO layout featuring Chicago Union Station in Layout Design Journal #46 (Spring 2012), published by the Layout Design SIG. Again, too large to use as-is, but might be useful for some ideas.
Best of luck with your layout.
Layout Design GalleryLayout Design Special Interest Group
Wow a garage layout in Chicago? With Chicago's nasty winters, and high humidity summers, how do plan on heating and cooling the garage?
Michael
CEO- Mile-HI-RailroadPrototype: D&RGW Moffat Line 1989
Hey
The Union Station Concept sounds very nice and while I like that idea alot and it makes me daydream of the possibilities probably would take up to much space you think??? Olgivie Transportation sounds much more feasible. Also it doesnt have to model the exact plan of downtown Chicago. It can be any continuous running loop but I'm not sure if I just want a double track oval. Would get boring pretty quick and would need to add alot of switching and crossovers to make it interesting for freight operations. What if I had like a 2-4 track staging yard representing Olgivie and the Amtrak could use those same tracks like the Amtrak does when crossing over the UP-West tracks to continue on its route. At the stagine yard I could use the Walther's train sheds as my platforms since they resemble Olgivie. Yes I'm definitely modeling HO as I have alot of HO equipment already and would not be feasible to start over plus my hands are too big for that delicate N scale stuff
Motley
My garage is insulated and drywalled from when I bought it. I also have a few electric heaters though my floor is bare concrete. Do you foree a problem? I know I can't be the only one in Chicago who has a layout in their garage. I don't have a basement only a upstairs in my home and the wife will not let me use the one spare bedroom to play with "train" as she sees it. I'm lucky I get the garage.
Your idea sounds plausible, but I'd plan it all out on a CAD program first. You are right about the minimum radii required by Walthers and that is certainly something to consider. I've created a Chicago passenger layout set in the late 50's based around LaSalle Street Station. Of course, there was a lot of minimizing to get something practical. Think about how many tracks, trains, and operators you would have. No point in building a station with 16 tracks if you're going to run it solo (Unless you just want to park and showcase your collection of vanish). I compromised on 8 tracks with a few requiring an 18 inch radius to get to them. The others are all Walthers friendly - now tried and tested! Feel free to check out the link to my page below for more information. The layout plan has been altered to reflect a couple of changes I had to make when reality met the plans, but shows what you can do in a reasonably small space regarding Chicago and passenger trains. I'd love to chat more about your plans - especially since you're in the Chicago area and I'm modeling it from Florida!
Visit my layout!
LaSalle Street Station
MetraKing06 Motley My garage is insulated and drywalled from when I bought it. I also have a few electric heaters though my floor is bare concrete. Do you foree a problem? I know I can't be the only one in Chicago who has a layout in their garage. I don't have a basement only a upstairs in my home and the wife will not let me use the one spare bedroom to play with "train" as she sees it. I'm lucky I get the garage.
A De-humidifier would probably be the only other thing I can reccommend. You want to keep the layout space below 50% humidity.
Yes I was thinking of buying a dehumidifier....would that help in the winter as well? I wonder which do I have to worry about more? The heat or the cold?
Anywho, I was thinking of having a 3 or 4 track terminal representing Olgivie Transportation so would be significantly scaled down. Also thinking of having a double decker layout where the terminal is on one level and then rises or lowers to the main layout. It would be a double track mainline.
I had a layout in the garage years ago when living in northwestern Indiana. It worked okay but there were always problems here and there. I can't really say if the issue was my inexperience or the layout's location. My biggest issue was definitely cause by the garage which was dust. Everything got coated quickly in a deep enough layer that I joked it was natural weathering. However, I still find dust when doing maintenance on older equipment. I tried covering the layout in sheeting when not in use, vacuuming it all regularly (weekly... Say goodbye to scenery...), and trying to move and isolate "dusty" activities far from the layout if not outside the garage. We parked the car in the garage during the winters, but left it out in the warmer weather so much of the year that wasn't the problem either. Whatever, the dust never stopped. Just something to keep in mind as you prepare the space. Maybe some dust filtration and sealing the concrete floor might help.
Im trying to design and/or play around with the layout concept on one of the free design software sites but they seem diffuclt and confusing to use. Anyone have any luck on a easy to master design software that I don't have to pay for? Something that a 10 yr old kid could maybe figure out....LOL
I think the one I use is called xTrakcad or something similar. There is a tutorial on there on how to use it and the help section is fairly helpful. I didn't use either immediately and still was able to build a few track plans. I never figured out elevations though, but I can live with that.
Ive got got a couple dozen variations on my layout that I created prior to the final one. I tried every combination and every possible layout that I could in the space. Ultimately, I found the one that minimized the bad things while maximized the good. It is still a compromise as you'll find is needed for passenger equipment demands. Creating all these maps helped me discover some interesting space saving tricks while learning the program better. I think it all worked out for the better. So far, anyways.
Well after much back and forth and looking through a few magazine articles of past MRR. I think based on the available space I have I will use this commuter station by Custom Model Railroader as the focal point of my layout AND as the terminal. So it will be double tracked mainline and even though my space isn't that big I should be able to have a small terminal/yard. Maybe 2 or 3 tracks beyond the station where commuter cars could be parked and then have some type of continuous running. What are your thoughts? Suggestions? Maybe haev a few industries served as well with some well placed sidings here and there. So maybe not Chicago in the end but suburban Chicagoland.
I seem to recall that Metra is some kind of push pull operation so any kind of continuous running would involve an auto reversing track. I'm not familiar with it but Bachman sells auto reversing track and I believe there are others out there. In your case I would think you would want a hidden staging area where one train disappears going downtown and another appears on a different track.heading to the suburbs.
I think something like Evanston or Arlington Heights would be a good place to set up this type of layout.
Joe Staten Island West