Are their any specific concerns with the placing of turnouts on a grade. I have designed my railroad without turnouts on or near a verticle curve and was wondering if it was necessary to also keep them off of the incline.
Layout design standards:
Code 100 track in all locations except Engine servicing area and 1 of the branchlines
Minimum curve on mainline: 24"
Minimum curve on branchline 21-22"
Spur minimum: 18" for now, may test certain areas with 44-ton and 0-6-0 for tighter radius.
Smallest turnout Branchlines and spurs: PECO code 100 insulfrog, small radius turnout (24" radius curve, confirmed that is actually the radius by asking the manufacturer @ NTS)
Mainline minimum turnout: PECO Medium
Max grade: 3%
I have one turnout on a grade - it is at the bottom of the grade!
While I took great pains in getting the transition to flat - BUT the turnout STILL has occassional problems.
I attribute this to the train pusing the cars together as the engine begins to go though the turnout and the weight of the cars seems to push them into the turnout and the wheels will pick the frog!
This doesn't happen every time but it happens enough to be a pain!
I have filed chamfers on the frog and the points and made sure there are no sharp spots at any of the joints. This seemed to help some but it just depends on the car lenght (long then short & then long cars in the train) but I haven't verified if this grouping of cars is causing the problem.
Going up the grade is no problem!
I have suggested to the Operators of this area to limit their trains to 6 cars to keep the weight to a minimum and still have a decient size train (as this is a shortline coming into the Interchange point with the mainline).
BOB H - Clarion, PA
I have an Atlas number four om the flat, but with the straight tru going down and the divering route going up, both at four percent, starting at the end of the turnout. This is operated as a switchback and causes no problems with three 40' cars and a caboose.
Dave
I have a #7.5 curved Walthers code 83 turnout on a 2.4% grade. No problems at all.
I also have Walthers Shinohara 7-1/2 code 83 turnouts on a 2.4% grade, pairs that make crossovers, and have no derail problems there. I have a 5th 7-/2 on the flat section and that one yields occasional problems, likely because I did not get it flat enough and it flexes. I have it temporarily shimmed and plan to better shim to flatten it and then secure the flatness with more caulk to fix it in place. None of it is yet ballasted.
Paul
Modeling HO with a transition era UP bent
Three of 'em in this photo:
The track at the left is heading downhill away from the viewer. At the nearest turnout, into the industrial siding, the grade increases quite dramatically as soon as it's clear of the main, then the balance of the siding is level. The second turnout, where the two mains converge, is still on the same grade as the first one - somewhere between 2-2.5%. Beyond that, the grade decreases, and by the time it reaches the third turnout, the track has started to climb again. The diverging track, heading towards the viewer, is about 2.5% downhill.No problems with any of them, unless somebody forgets to align the turnouts properly.
Wayne
Though I have not done it, I have read that turnouts on a grade are not a problem as long as they are flat. My feeling is that you don't want to have them too close to a change in grade.
Good luck,
Richard
So long as whatever track diverges follows the grade of the main track, few issues really. The problem comes if there's a spur that levels off for an industry or a diverging track that climbs or drops. Deepending on which way it goes, there's the possiblility of awkward vertical curves. If you leave plenty of room for them, you'll be OK. The problem is that a turnout is often on a grade because someone tries to squeeze in something else, so the problem sometimes snowballs.
Mike Lehman
Urbana, IL
Turnouts on curves are no problem, it is all about good trackwork!
cowman Though I have not done it, I have read that turnouts on a grade are not a problem as long as they are flat. My feeling is that you don't want to have them too close to a change in grade. Good luck, Richard
Yes,keep the switch(aka turnout) on the level and start the grade(my experience) about 4-5 scale feet from the end of the diverging route of the switch and keep a gentle down slope from the switch.
A side note.
If you have above average track laying skills you can have a steeper grade off the end of the diverging route of the switch.I've done that before with zero issues.
Larry
Conductor.
Summerset Ry.
"Stay Alert, Don't get hurt Safety First!"
I have two Shinohara Code 100 #6 and have had no problems at all. It's about being careful with the trackwork and using good products.
There's never time to do it right, but always time to do it over.....
I have an Atlas cose 100 number 6 on a 2.5 percent grade with no problem. I also have another Atlas number 6 at the bottom of a grade with no problem. If your trackwork is good, you should have no problem.
Roger Hensley= ECI Railroad - http://madisonrails.railfan.net/eci/eci_new.html == Railroads of Madison County - http://madisonrails.railfan.net/ =
I have a Peco C55 double crossover on a 2.0 percent grade with no problems. I will say I took much care in laying this section of double main with the crossover. Real railroads have turnouts on inclines so why can't we do the same. I do believe in the slow and perfect method of track laying that I learned many years ago the hard way. Doug
Make sure the approach tracks and the turnout are all in one plane. If you start a grade with a turnout and there is a slight vertical kink, you will have problems, particularly with long-wheelbase steamers. Come to think of it, a vertical kink will cause problems with almost anything, but turnouts and steamers are the most cantankerous.
It takes an iron man to play with a toy iron horse.
Bob, If you are having trouble with wheels picking the point of a frog, I would suggest you carefully check the guage of the wheels, check to see if they are skewed in the truck, and check your guardrail across from the frog.
I used to have a lot of instances using Peco code 100 switches where the point of the frog was often struck by a wheel. This is especially true when shovinig cars through the switch. A shim of .005 or .010 styrene installed against the guard rail always took care of the problem. (unless the wheels had a slightly wide guage.
Be happy in your work.
Charlie
I have one curved turnout on a superelevated minimum radius curve (610mm - 24 inches) on a 2% upgrade. The only derailment that ever occurred there was caused by an inattentive operator (Moi) backing a train trailing-point into closed switch points.
I did install a guard rail along the inside rail to pull wheel flanges away from the point on the outside of the curve. I don't know if it's really necessary - it was installed during initial construction.
The roadbed is a uniform conic section through the turnout, but the inner curve begins a transition to a lesser grade and tangent track about 50mm (2") past the ends of the frog guard rails. Careful tracklaying and attention to appropriate spiral easements have resulted in problem-free operation.
Chuck (Modeling Central Japan in September, 1964 - with hand-laid specialwork)
Well then I must have 1200 cars with out of gauge wheels! ;-)
The real problem seemed to be that is was an older Atlas Wye turnout and the Frog was way too deep and the cars would drop into the frog.
I ended up filling the frog with shim plastic which stopped the wheels from dropping into the gap!
The problem seems to be gone!
But in keeping the number of cars (now ithe Metal Wheels) roll freely thus placing more pressure to the cars still on the grade when entering the turnout!
Keeping the free rolling weight less (only 6 cars) seems to help also!
I know that the Atlas Wye turnout is not the best but the turnout is in the middle of a three track crossing so changing it is not possible without a completer rebuild of the area!
So I will keep on reworking the turnout until it is fixed!
Back to the basics! Turnouts and all other track is all about the track work. I have seen lots of track laid thatt looked good but was not done well and you could tell as soon as you ran an engine. Even mine is not as good as some I have seen as I only worried about level on the long side, there are those that worry about level across the two rails too!!!!!!!!
For now Im doing flat curves, later I may rebuild with super-elevation, but for the moment no. Also to clear up my original post. I have no plans of inserting a turnout at the point of which elevation starts to change (on a vertical curve), however the question was regarding placing said turnout on the actual grade. I will include photos of the area.
sorry about how small that is, dont understand how it turned out different size from this one:
Looks like two turnouts on the grade? I'd be cautious here, definitely minimize the vertical curves.Maybe the camera angle is doing itbut it looks like there some drop--off when taking the diverging route that c=urves to the right.
The first turnout is level, both routes will drop off about 4-5in from the end of the turnout. The straight route has a turnout about midway down the grade, maybe some more photos would be useful.