cmrproducts To give the Layout Owners in our Local area a way to experience the FUN of running on larger layouts and to see what it takes to handle a layout – a number of us got together and began Hosting OPs Sessions on various local layouts! This way they could see first had what it took to keep these layouts up and running! Soon there were more Owners (from as 50 to 75 miles away) asking if the group wanted come to their layout for an OPs Session – thus began the I-80 Group.
Bob, I am always interested in reading what you have to say, but I found this reply to be particularly interesting.
The notion of single wolf operators inviting your group to conduct an Ops session on their layout. Fascinating!
Rich
Alton Junction
richhotrainThe notion of single wolf operators inviting your group to conduct an Ops session on their layout. Fascinating! Rich
Rich,That does not surprise me..If the layout is large enough even the lone wolf will find a pack to operate with so,he can enjoy a full return on his investment.
Larry
Conductor.
Summerset Ry.
"Stay Alert, Don't get hurt Safety First!"
BRAKIE richhotrain The notion of single wolf operators inviting your group to conduct an Ops session on their layout. Fascinating! Rich Rich,That does not surprise me..If the layout is large enough even the lone wolf will find a pack to operate with so,he can enjoy a full return on his investment.
richhotrain The notion of single wolf operators inviting your group to conduct an Ops session on their layout. Fascinating! Rich
But my comment was directed at the generosity of Bob's group to visit local layouts and show lone wolf operators how to improve their layouts and conduct effective Ops sessions.
I need them to come visit mine. And, I even live close to I-80.
richhotrainBut my comment was directed at the generosity of Bob's group to visit local layouts and show lone wolf operators how to improve their layouts and conduct effective Ops sessions.
Most round robins I know of does that..Of course the return investment is gaining another layout to operate on.
I knew one group had 19 members and 19 different layouts to operate on..Last I heard there was 7 left.Most of the members either moved away,passed on or in poor health.
richhotrain Bob, I am always interested in reading what you have to say, but I found this reply to be particularly interesting. The notion of single wolf operators inviting your group to conduct an Ops session on their layout. Fascinating! Rich
Rich!
I have had a lot of visitors to my layout over the years and while the huge Layout seems to impress everyone I am usually asking the Visitor if they have a layout of their own!
One (which is now one of our regulars) stated he had a small bedroom N Scale Layout and stated that he had not done much Operations with it.
I ask if we could come up and see it and we did - soon the Operations were going on!
While we could only cram 3 guys in the room at one time - we took turns and everyone had a great time!
He has added on to the layout and we can now keep 5 guys busy and this is in a 10 x 10 Bedroom!
Another visitor also ask us about having an OPs Session but his was in the Philadelphia area. So 6 of us made a overnight trip (as we had a larger layout to run on on Saturday)!
Sunday we ran on the smaller layout and the owner kept stating that it wasn't as big as mine but I kept telling him that size isn't everything!
The layout had double helixs and 3 level base - What impressed me was the way the Helixs could be run into and out of them to gain access to all 3 levels!
It was only an 18 x 18 but it kept 8 of us busy for 4 hours - only 3 could be running at one time but as each train finished its run another Operator took the next train out!
What is interesting is the small layouts seem to be more creative in the way the Owner sets up the OPs (Switching) and this, to me, is much more interesting than just taking a long train and run around the layout!
This is why I have so much Switching on my current layout !
It is the mental challenge of moving the cars into the proper Industries that is more fun than just running around the Mainline!
I could go up stairs and let the train run the Mainline and it would be all the same to me - What Fun is that?
BTW - Rich - where do you live?
BOB H - Clarion, PA
cmrproducts BTW - Rich - where do you live?
cmrproducts I have had a lot of visitors to my layout over the years and while the huge Layout seems to impress everyone I am usually asking the Visitor if they have a layout of their own! One (which is now one of our regulars) stated he had a small bedroom N Scale Layout and stated that he had not done much Operations with it. I ask if we could come up and see it and we did - soon the Operations were going on! While we could only cram 3 guys in the room at one time - we took turns and everyone had a great time! He has added on to the layout and we can now keep 5 guys busy and this is in a 10 x 10 Bedroom! Another visitor also ask us about having an OPs Session but his was in the Philadelphia area. So 6 of us made a overnight trip (as we had a larger layout to run on on Saturday)! Sunday we ran on the smaller layout and the owner kept stating that it wasn't as big as mine but I kept telling him that size isn't everything! The layout had double helixs and 3 level base - What impressed me was the way the Helixs could be run into and out of them to gain access to all 3 levels! It was only an 18 x 18 but it kept 8 of us busy for 4 hours - only 3 could be running at one time but as each train finished its run another Operator took the next train out! What is interesting is the small layouts seem to be more creative in the way the Owner sets up the OPs (Switching) and this, to me, is much more interesting than just taking a long train and run around the layout!
Bob, when you and your crew head over to a local layout for the first time, what is your experience with the track work?
Is it designed efficiently to handle Ops in all cases?
Is it bullet proof? In terms of no derailments, unintended uncouplings, etc.
Believe it or not - we are in the planning stages for a trip to Grand Rapids MI !
I will keep you in mind!
richhotrain Bob, when you and your crew head over to a local layout for the first time, what is your experience with the track work? Is it designed efficiently to handle Ops in all cases? Is it bullet proof? In terms of no derailments, unintended uncouplings, etc. Rich
Usually we have one or two of our I-80 Group members check out the layout by getting ask to one of their regular OPs Sessions (if they are holding regular sessions) or to just see the layout if the Owner is contemplating hosting a session!
While most of the layouts we visit, the layout is generally are very good but Operations can vary wildly!
SO I really can't say that they are designed for efficient OPs. We just run the layout and will make suggestions as most of the Owners are open to suggestions when it come to OPs.
Even our local member layouts are in a continual build or rebuild as they try to make changes to smooth out the Operations eliminate derailments, etc!
One thing about doing OPs is, the Layout Owner (if really interested in Hosting a Great OPs Session) will be always changing the layout to make the OPs Session run better!
We have run on layouts that could only run 3 Operators at one time to those that can take 12 or more. I have had 30 on my layout a couple of times but soon found the 20 was the magic number!
tomcatHow do the guys with massive rooms or basements in their houses figure out and design a layout that they are happy with.(or at least to start with anyway) Has anyone had so much space for their dream layout, that they have so much trouble designing a layout to go in that space?
Has anyone had so much space for their dream layout, that they have so much trouble designing a layout to go in that space?
Then I also started working at the muesum layout and realized that even if I could get something like this built, it would be a full time job to maintain it and I would never find enough people to run it on a regular basis.
So I think it is too much space for a single person. My plan is now to build a separate building about 1/2 this size designed specifically for the layout.
Reading this whole thread has been a lot of fun. It's ranged through small vs. large, operations vs. scenery, lone-wolf vs. group operations, etc. It's also highlighted the aspect of cameraderie in the hobby, plus the wide differences in approach to the hobby.
Returning to the O.P.'s original question, I would suggest that the best way (if there is really a "best" way at all) to approach the design of a layout is to look inwardly and think about the things that first attracted you to model railroading, and the things that keep you interested. Is there a favorite location? A favorite railroad? A favorite era? A favorite style of railroading (busy mainline; easy-going shortline; traction; narrow gauge; etc.); A favorite engine type? Favorite industries?
Once you've answered these questions, you can begin to imagine how you would represent your favorite features on a layout. You can start to imagine the general type of landscape, and you can start to imagine the locations that best represent that vision. Then you can start to get specific with issues like "My major yard will fit in along this long wall"; "One of my favorite small-town locations can be fit in over here"; "This open space will be available for some sweeping curves"; "The ceiling is high enough here to allow for an upper level" or "The ceiling is high enough here to allow for a towering mountain". Eventually, it will start to come together in your mind.
Every layout mentioned above is different from all the others. Your layout should represent what is important to you, and shouldn't be a reflection of what somebody else wants.
WOW !!!!!
I cant believe all these wonderful responses !! You guys are just so awesome. Thank you all so very much. Everyone has raised many valid points in each and every section of layout building,
I will have a couple of friends over to help me build the layout and eventually run trains , I know I have big goals for this layout
I want to have staging and switching to industries , paper mill, woodchip, steel works, concrete and gravel yard, manufacturing plant , furniture , lumber and general freight so there is a lot to consider when it comes to track planning.
When it comes to scenery , i wll start running trains asap and scenery will be done on dedicated days of the week and it WILL get done once I'm happy with my track arrangement. I too am not really a fan of a plywood desert
When it comes to a perticular era , I'm not really going prototypical I love too many trains to be restricted to modelling just one era or theme , If I like a certain loco (steam or deisel) I want to run it , Is there anything wrong with that ? after all its "My layout , My rules " right ?
One thing i'm not sure on is how to arrange the tracks to service them so if anyone could post a diagram on this that would be a great help.(point arrangements and sidings etc).
You guys are so great!!
From the land down under
Kalmbach published a book on locomotive terminals & servicing facilities a couple years ago & I'm sure it's still available. I can't put my hands on it at the moment, so I can't give the exact title. When in doubt, look to the practices of the 12" = 1'0" railroads. They did things in particular ways for valid reasons. Try to understand what they did and why. I hate to tell you to spend all your money on books; after all, you will need some left over to buy trains. But books on specific aspects of real railroading can be a very worthwhile investment.
I have never heard a Layout Owner, that is into heavy OPERATIONS! say he wished he had a SMALLER LAYOUT!
If going around in circles is your thing then by all means build a small layout!
You can get into the Scenery and Structurers much quicker!
But as one club I know of - they get all of the track down and run it to check for problems (derailing, kinks, dips in the track, etc>) and then they start Scenery in the areas that the trackwork is finished!
BUT - they only do a square foot or so at a time and when they walk away - that sq ft is DONE!
No more will be done to it as they have moved on to the next sq ft! The Trees, Ground Cover, Structurers, Details, Figures - EVERYTHING is there in that Sq Ft!
When the general public comes in during Open House - they see finished Scenery - in what areas that have been worked on !
While this is not what I do as I have too much background work to do in certain areas - I usually have to build a Loading dock - or retaining wall before I can get into the Scenery!
When I get into a mood to do Scenery - and I have to stop to do the background stuff - and waiting for the Glue to dry or Paint on the background item -
It sure takes the Mood right out of me!
And you wonder why I don't have much Scenery!
At least I can go do some Switching - as the TRACKWORK is DONE! and it WORKS!
I can do Scenery Tomorrow - or maybe the next DAY or WEEK or MONTH ! ;-)
cmrproductsI have never heard a Layout Owner, that is into heavy OPERATIONS! say he wished he had a SMALLER LAYOUT!
Bob,I would think I'm into heavy prototype switching even through my layout could easily hide in yours.Like the prototype industries isn't switch every day nor is it unusual to have some overflo cars that must be held until thr customer is finished unloading his car(s).I don't think I would want a larger layout and at 10' I sure enough don't want a smaller ISL.
And yes all my Walthers's buildings fits on the layout and I goof when I resized the plan..
A big part of lone-wolfing a sizeable layout consists of keeping the priorities straight. The object is to run trains. SO:
I'm building a double garage filler to a very specific master plan, and have some health problems that put a definite hitch in my layout-building. BUT, I have enough to keep me happy, even though progress is slow. I can make wheels roll, which makes everything worthwhile.
Chuck (Modeling Central Japan in September, 1964 - slowly)