There is a lowes in Waterloo
tjerrard The only Home Center I could find are in the US or overseas. Maybe you found Home Hardware? When I do a search on Home Hardware it says go to a store for prices. Anyway if one could get cheap switches and boxes than this innovation is great. I can't find the "cheap" here yet.
The only Home Center I could find are in the US or overseas. Maybe you found Home Hardware? When I do a search on Home Hardware it says go to a store for prices.
Anyway if one could get cheap switches and boxes than this innovation is great. I can't find the "cheap" here yet.
tjerrard 3way in Canada is $8.29 can and the blue box is $6 can. I am a real fan of free trade LOL
3way in Canada is $8.29 can and the blue box is $6 can.
I am a real fan of free trade LOL
tjerrard,
The Blue Point is a nice little deal. I wouldn't argue against going with them.
I do know in the states the cost wouldn't be comparable. You can get three-way switches in quanities of 10 or 12 for around $1 or $1.25/each. The blue box is just over $1/each locally. Gotta add in something for the knob (40 cents), dowel, and spring wire to control it, but it's always cheaper than a Blue Point.
But yeah, once you add in microswitches, that and the hassle of installing and adjusting them does make the Blue Point very competitive if you need the contacts. wdcrvr should definiotely consider that option, as it will save a lot of labor.
Mike Lehman
Urbana, IL
Love the idea behind the 3way switch and just shows the innovation that modelers apply to their layouts.
I just priced out a 3way switch and plastic box vs a Blue Point machine and the price comes out the same for both (I would have to purchase the parts). Now if you have a supply of 3way switches and the boxes that are free then I guess one would not bother with the Blue Point machines.
For me the Blue Point machines are the way to go and they include the connections needed for LEDs.
You can get small limit switches and attach them to control LEDs indicators. They can be tricky to adjust and add a level of complexity I tried to avoid myself. Which is to say it's certainly possible, but sounds like a lot of work to me. But there may be a simple way to do it.
I have been following this thread for some time. And I have already started installing these turnout controls on my ho layout and I am very appy with the results. I am just wondering if there is a way to add to this method so that you can have LED indicators on your control panels to tell you which way the turnout is currently set?
Any help out there?
thanks
wdcrvr
I did the 9th through 12th installs this weekend. It didn't start well, when I chose the wrong trunout to drill under first, completely missing the metall guard I' place to guard the points of the selected turnout.
Nickle-silver track is amazing flexible and resilient, though. I actually fixed it The four control knobs mounted on the fascia. I installed a bum guard to protect the knobs from snagging. here the turnoits are all in Normal position. Here's one turnout control in REVERSE position.
Nickle-silver track is amazing flexible and resilient, though. I actually fixed it
The four control knobs mounted on the fascia. I installed a bum guard to protect the knobs from snagging. here the turnoits are all in Normal position. Here's one turnout control in REVERSE position.
The four control knobs mounted on the fascia.
I installed a bum guard to protect the knobs from snagging. here the turnoits are all in Normal position. Here's one turnout control in REVERSE position.
I installed a bum guard to protect the knobs from snagging. here the turnoits are all in Normal position.
Here's one turnout control in REVERSE position.
Eric,
Randy is correct. It's just coincidence that the terms are the same, but the 3-way switch in this thread refers only to the type of household switch used in this manual control for a typical two-postion turnout.
Here's an older thread with info on turnout controls for a 3-way TURNOUT:
http://cs.trains.com/mrr/f/11/t/221070.aspx
This webpage shows how to rig two Tortoises to run a Peco 3-way turnout:
https://sites.google.com/site/coloradofrontrangerailroad/projects-1/three-way-switch-and-tortoises
As for the trackwork itself, AFAIK no one makes a RTR 3-way turnout in HOn3. There are custom builders who can make you one (BK Enterprises and Railway Engineering are two with extensive experience I know of.) Or you can build one yourself, but probably best to do several regualr swicthes before tackling that.
While the "3 way" switch being talked about in this thread for a switch machine really only has 2 physical positions, there IS a similar thing you could to to make a manual machine for a 3-way stub switch. That would be an ordinary SPDT or DTDP center-off toggle switch. The center-off position would line up the middle straight route and then enither side would move the movable rails to the other routes. Small stops on the rail keep it from moving too far left or too far right.
--Randy
Modeling the Reading Railroad in the 1950's
Visit my web site at www.readingeastpenn.com for construction updates, DCC Info, and more.
Hello All, I am new to the world of HOn3 and this 3-way switch thread could answer a modeling decision problem I must make about the EBT RR, Is it possible to scratch build a 3-way stub switch that is functional? As far as I know, no one makes RTR stub track in HOn3. Any hope for me or would the prudent option be to just go with a RTR conventional 3-way turnout for best results?
Thanxs in advance for any advice.
Eric
Rich,
I'm a historian, because my math is not so sharp...
Naw, it's more a matter of I might be able to get to one turnout from the bottom, just haven't tried the right configuration of drill and bit to confirm yet.
mlehman Thanks for the great tips! I'll likely give them a try, as it will save taking up about half of the 7 turnouts I need to convert at Red Mountain.
Thanks for the great tips! I'll likely give them a try, as it will save taking up about half of the 7 turnouts I need to convert at Red Mountain.
Cool! So, Mike, you plan to take up 3 1/2 of those 7 turnouts???
Rich
Alton Junction
cmrproductsThere are 2 ways I have gotten around the problem of drilling holes under installed Tunrouts! One is using a piece of thin sheet metal to slide under the turnout I then place something heavy on the turnout to keep the sheet metal from moving and then drill up from the bottom. The sheet metal will stop the drill bit before it grabs and tries pulling through! The 2nd method is using a Forestner Bit which cuts a blind hole and does NOT grab like a regular twist drill bit does!
Bob,
Thanks for the great tips! I'll likely give them a try, as it will save taking up about half of the 7 turnouts I need to convert at Red Mountain. The others will require taking up and drilling from the top, as there are supports underneath making access with the drill from that direction problematic. It's the oldest part of the layout, so wasn't built with the forethought that subsequent sections had the advantage of.
I'm looking forward to elminating those little black slugs...
mlehman Basically, you'll need to drill up from underneath -- carefully -- directly beneath the throwbar that holds the ends of the points together. The hole should be at least 3/8" in diameter. Be advised that you do risk ruining the turnout doing it this way. Go a little too far with the drill bit and your turnout will look like a pretzle. You may wish to consider how much trouble it would be to just take up the turnout first and drill down from on top without risking damage to the turnout. Do noty use a spade bit with its sharp point that protrudes. Better a regular HSS drill bit or a Forstner or plug drill bit, as they all are rather "flat" and less likely to snag on the turnout above. SNIP -
Basically, you'll need to drill up from underneath -- carefully -- directly beneath the throwbar that holds the ends of the points together. The hole should be at least 3/8" in diameter. Be advised that you do risk ruining the turnout doing it this way. Go a little too far with the drill bit and your turnout will look like a pretzle. You may wish to consider how much trouble it would be to just take up the turnout first and drill down from on top without risking damage to the turnout. Do noty use a spade bit with its sharp point that protrudes. Better a regular HSS drill bit or a Forstner or plug drill bit, as they all are rather "flat" and less likely to snag on the turnout above.
There are 2 ways I have gotten around the problem of drilling holes under installed Tunrouts!
One is using a piece of thin sheet metal to slide under the turnout
I then place something heavy on the turnout to keep the sheet metal from moving and then drill up from the bottom.
The sheet metal will stop the drill bit before it grabs and tries pulling through!
The 2nd method is using a Forestner Bit which cuts a blind hole and does NOT grab like a regular twist drill bit does!
In the second method - I still try and have the piece of Sheet Metal under the turnout for safety!
It works very well for me!
BOB H - Clarion, PA
OK, finally have some pics to put up showing the control knobs mounted in the fascia, along with the "bum" guards I made from some trim stock I had handy.
The Normal position in all cases is when the knob is pushed in. In the Reverse position, the knob is pulled out, visible but still somewhat protected.
The Normal position in all cases is when the knob is pushed in.
In the Reverse position, the knob is pulled out, visible but still somewhat protected.
OK, here's something that's good to know. Most of the time, you want the Normal position of the turnout to be when the knob is in. You pull it out to open the turnout to Reverse position. This reminds you to close the trunout after use and keeps the knobs from being snagged.
The position your points need to be may vary from this. Do you need to just leave the knob sticking out? No, there's an easy solution. Get a bell crank. These can be found in the parts bins where model aircraft are sold as they're used for control linkages, etc. This one was dirt cheap, one of four in a bag for $2 in the closeout bins. It's the small black plastic arm. It pivots on a special screw I got from the same place, but a regular screw will work. I made the arm that holds it from a steel construction bracket and a chunk of wood, because the pivot screw is a wood screw. It attaches to the turnout control via one of the screw holes that normally hold the face plate in place.
The bottom linkage goes out to the control knob via the dowel linkage. The top link goes to the electric switch lever, but now from the OPPOSITE direction. This way the knob can stay in and the turnout stays in the right position.
I actually have 7 of these on the oldest part of the layout I need to do from below I may be doing in the near future to replace old Caboose manual throws. I will take pics if I do.
Once the hole is in place, you take the control that you've built and attach it so you can look up through the tiny hole for the actuating wire and see the throwbar from below -- ideally. Sometimes you just have to measure and do the best you can by trial and error if you can't get in position to sight through the hole.
Once you get the control fastened in position, if you can see the hole in the throwbar, often you can guide the actuating wire into the hole by eye from below easily. Otherwise, trial and error until it comes up through the throwbar properly. Slide the lower end that is turned 90 degrees through the hole you drilled in the switch lever to keep it in place.
Back on top, use a pair of wire-cutting pliers to cut the actuating wire close to the throwbar, being careful not to damage the turnout. Then take a Dremel with a cut-off wheel and carefully finish taking the sharp end off the wire and making it close to flush, but not so close it pops out when you move the throwbar.
I think I might like to try this because I have been having some trouble with small steam locos stalling on my turnouts. And I have looked at the article in MR November 2013. However I am far from being experience with any of this stuff. I am hoping I can find something more detailed as to how to hook this up to the turnout. Especially how to hook it up to a turnout that is already installed in the layout. So, if anyone can help me with finding more information on this process I would greatly appreciate it.
Thanks
zstripe Rich, We should,start our own show!..BTW, the colors,you suggested, would not pass, an Electrical Code Inspection. I would not necessarily, use the word, ''vindictive'', Bull Headed, could be a better word. Cheers, Frank
We should,start our own show!..BTW, the colors,you suggested, would not pass, an Electrical Code Inspection. I would not necessarily, use the word, ''vindictive'', Bull Headed, could be a better word.
Cheers,
Frank
We now have to get an Electric Code Inspection? Most will probably fail that. My grandfather (who was a Chief Engineer on a ship) wired our vacation house, and his wiring doesn't meet code, but it works after over 20 years at least. (the house hasn't burned down yet either , though we do want a new house)
Frank,
OK, apology accepted.
It's always good to keep in mind the subject when responding to a thread. This was really about the manual control and not really about the national electric code. If we were wiring up the house, that could be useful, but it does serve as a distraction and one that could be confusing to newer modelers. So, enough about the code.
Which is not to say that it's not worth considering color coding for layout wiring in a separate thread, if you'd like to do so. There are lots of variations and what matters most is that they work for the layout owner. Ironically enough, I actually wire my layout like a house, using twist-on wire nuts. It does make for quick, easy, and cheap connection that can be re-configured easily if you need to make changes, but that's also a subject for another day.
Whatever system someone wishes to use, the Common connection on the switch in this application will go to power the turnout's frog, depending on which way it's thrown. In the article and on my layout, green is used to designate switchable power to "hot" frogs. The other two supply connections are wired to each bring in one side of the power bus to feed the green/common wire depending on which way it's thrown. In the article, the wires were black and white. On my layout, I use red and black, with the red rail generally being the rail closest to the aisle.
One point of possible confusion introduced earlier in the thread was about the green connection on the electrical switch inside the box. For this application, the green/ground connection screw on the electrical switch actually connects to nothing. If you do use a green wire for the common, make sure it goes to the black screw on the 3-way switch, because connecting it to the green screw gets you a dead frog, not a hot frog.
Mike,
I apologize, for messing,up your Thread and hope you continue,to follow up, on your project !
Frank, apparently you don't give up either. We are both vindicative. That means we both want the last word.
So, with this reply, I am going to give you the opportunity to have the final word.
You continue to confuse the use of a 3-way household electrical switch. It contains three brass terminal screws to carry power. The colors of the insulated jackets on the wires used on a 3-way switch are irrelevant. Three purple wires would work just as well as a white, black and green wire.
Now, you may have the final word because I will not reply again.
You just don't give up! You should not have addressed,your post to me then and two colors,he choose,for his wiring,grn,w,would not be in a 3-way Elect. switch.
Frank, I made that last reply for the benefit of the other readers of this thread. There may be some others besides Mike who wish to take on this project.
With all due respect, You can drop it. I already know what your saying, no need for you to explain it.
Thank You!