Hi all,
I was planing to have a right & a left turnout together off my main line, the right going into a passing siding, and the left going to a car ferry dock. Or should I use a 3 way turnout? I have the space for ether way, but I am looking for opinions of what would look more realistic. Also while I'm on the subject; Does the three way turnout need two switch machines?
Thanks
Sam
Tha answer to your second question is "Yes" a three way turnout needs two switch machines. It is really two turnouts just squeezed together linearly.
My two cents worth would be to use two turnouts since you have the room. I have no statistical evidence but I believe you would have fewer problems that way. On the other hand I have operated on layouts with three way turnouts and, as long as one pays attention to what one doing, they work.
Sam,
Following up on Roger's reply, as he said, the 3-way turnout requires two switch machines. For several reasons, I agree with Roger in that two turnouts might be preferred to the 3-way turnout.
I have three 3-way turnouts, end to end, on my layout to deal with a special situation where the main track exits the passenger station and then feeds into the coach yard and parallel main lines. But, the 3-way turnout takes up more space because of the angles of the divergent tracks, the point rails are more finicky, and the routes are more prone to operator error.
Since you won't be able to get by with one switch machine, I would recommend that you opt for the right hand and left hand turnouts.
Rich
Alton Junction
i assume there are different types of 3-ways
greg - Philadelphia & Reading / Reading
richhotrain I agree with Roger in that two turnouts might be preferred to the 3-way turnout.
I agree with Roger in that two turnouts might be preferred to the 3-way turnout.
Ditto.
But, the 3-way turnout takes up more space because of the angles of the divergent tracks, the point rails are more finicky, and the routes are more prone to operator error.
A #6 switch should be a #6 switch. If you have a #6 3-way switch the tracks should diverge at the same angle as a regular #6 switch, A #6 3-way switch would be as "wide" as a left and right hand switches in parallel. The 3-way switch will be about 1 1/2 times as long as a regular switch, but shorter than 2 regular switches. Because the switches overlap (3 way switches are also called "lap" switches) there is a bit less room for the mechanisms. Because operators think of it as one switch, instead of two switches, they are more likely to be confused when operating it, as Rich says.
The prototype uses 3 ways switches in yards and other places where spaces are cramped. Since they involve additional frogs and guardrails, they are more expensive to build and maintain, the prototype tries to avoid them. In some places shallow angle crossings are being replaced with two switches because of the ease of maintenance over a diamond.
Dave H. Painted side goes up. My website : wnbranch.com
dehusman A #6 switch should be a #6 switch. If you have a #6 3-way switch the tracks should diverge at the same angle as a regular #6 switch, A #6 3-way switch would be as "wide" as a left and right hand switches in parallel.
A #6 switch should be a #6 switch. If you have a #6 3-way switch the tracks should diverge at the same angle as a regular #6 switch, A #6 3-way switch would be as "wide" as a left and right hand switches in parallel.
You would think so, and you may be right, Dave.
But, it appears to me that even though the #6 3-way switch tracks diverge at the same angle as two #6 turnouts, they are not parallel like a right hand and left turn turnout. At least, that seems to be the case with the Walthers Shinohara 3-way turnout. That center track seems to curve a little from one end to the other.
If the center track of a commercial 3-way switch seems to wiggle, it wasn't designed/assembled to spec.
Of course, the center tracks of my three-ways all curve left. It's the right hand track that's straight...
That said, the prototype railroads, operating on the KISS principle, would prefer two standard turnouts to one three-way. One less frog and four less rail joints to contend with. Also, that 'middle' frog isn't of much use when the three way gets pulled up (It's about a #3.)
Which doesn't mean there aren't uses for three way switches. There was one in Rapid City, SD, which replaced a turntable (!) Each tail track ran into one stall of the three stall roundhouse. (The roundhouse is still there, but I couldn't tell if the rails were still in place.)
Chuck (Modeling Central Japan in September, 1964 - with exotic handlaid specialwork)
Thanks guys, I appreciate the quick responses. So it looks like my best bet is to go with a left and a right #6 turnouts together rather then the three way. I do have enough space for a #6 right T. O. to the passing siding, but I will need a #6 left hand curved turnout at about 5' up the main line into a curve. Should the left hand turnout to the ferry dock be placed in front of the right, or should the right be in front of the left?
tomikawaTT If the center track of a commercial 3-way switch seems to wiggle, it wasn't designed/assembled to spec. Of course, the center tracks of my three-ways all curve left. It's the right hand track that's straight...
Chuck, that's what I was trying to say. I didn't mean to imply that it wiggles. As you say, the center track curves.
Do you REALLY have the space, to get all three tracks parallel without a too-sharp curve if you use two normal turnouts instead of the 3-way? The 3-way will save a good bit of space and give more room to get the tracks parallel. Or maybe on the point side, using the shorter 3-way amy allow your lead track to be longer for more storage.
--Randy
Modeling the Reading Railroad in the 1950's
Visit my web site at www.readingeastpenn.com for construction updates, DCC Info, and more.
The center track on my Walthers/Shinohara 3-way is straight.
Dante
Fast Tracks has a #6 three-way printable turnout template on their website at www.handlaidtrack.com They have many other accurate templates that are great for checking what track configurations will work, or not work. Appears there are some #6 Fast Track jig built three-way turnouts for sale on eBay.
regards, Peter
Just a Thought! How about using a Wye TO and then one left hand,or right turnout ?
Cheers,
Frank
ollevon I was planing to have a right & a left turnout together off my main line, the right going into a passing siding, and the left going to a car ferry dock. Or should I use a 3 way turnout?
I was planing to have a right & a left turnout together off my main line, the right going into a passing siding, and the left going to a car ferry dock. Or should I use a 3 way turnout?
Sam, a few questions.
How would the two turnouts line up?
Would one turnout follow the other on the mainline?
Or would the second turnout feed off the divergent track of the first turnout?
What brand of 3-way turnout would you use?
I think he need's to be on the left and the right of the main,,if I understand correctly,,,,But what do I know?
Good morning guys, Randy, your right, now that I took Peter's advice I printed out a 3 way from Fast Tracks and it does save a lot of space. Frank, I'm not sure how a Wye would work, I think that might be an option. Rich, if I was to go with the 3 way, which brand would you suggest.
I went down this morning and quickly put this together so I can take a picture. maybe this will help you all understand better as what I want to do. The right will be a passing siding, the left will head to the car ferry float. I didn't want to mark my center lines yet, so I just did this as a quick reference,
ollevon ....Rich, if I was to go with the 3 way, which brand would you suggest..... Sam
....Rich, if I was to go with the 3 way, which brand would you suggest.....
The only commercial 3 ways I know of are Walthers/Shinohara and Peco. BK(Trout Creek Engineering), Railway Engineering, Litco, Cream City, and others will custom make what you want. Or if you want to try laying your own, I would suggest starting with 2 closely spaced single turnouts rather than a 3 way for your first attempt at hand laid.
my thoughts, your choices
Fred W
I have a question for you,,,that car ferry you mentioned,,that will be for railroad use?? If it is how many tracks are on it??You may need two tracks,to service it,,,,Where the orange stick pin in the road bed,,would be a good place to put a wye..A wye will give you,two parallel tracks to the ferry..Unless of course,you are always going to load an empty ferry and not have to take anything off of it,before you load it.....Get My Point??
zstripe,that car ferry you mentioned,,that will be for railroad use??
Frank,
To answer your question, yes the car float will be for railroad freight car use. It will have two deck mounted tracks. It will only be long enough to hold three 50' box cars on each track. I will have to scratch build the car float so I'm sure it will fit in my harbor. I do intend to ad a wey somewhere near where you said, but I was thinking a little more closer to the blue stick pin. But I work slow and I'm still trying to decide on a 3 way or left & right turnouts. I guess what I'm looking for is, what ever will give me the least amount of problems down the road.
I installed a Walthers Shinohara HO code 83 DCC friendly #6 3-way and it did have one quirk that "Middleman" pointed out in the attached thread; i.e., one teeny piece of track tended to get hit by wheel flanges when the route was another way, causing a short. Mine suffered the same symptom. I believe Middleman de-powered his piece, whereas I painted the offending edge with some clear nail polish to address it. Don't know whether to blame the track or the loco flanges vs standards but it's something to be aware of. Not saying don't but this one, just be aware of a quirk to address. I would go the same route again as the item fit my layout desires.
http://cs.trains.com/mrr/f/744/t/214350.aspx?sort=ASC&pi314=2
Paul
Modeling HO with a transition era UP bent
I did the same as Peahrens with my 3-way.
Yes I agree about where to put the wye,at the Blue pin,,you can then use,both tracks,without fouling,the main...That way you can also use the,Idler car,always with the power..
ollevon Rich, if I was to go with the 3 way, which brand would you suggest.
Rich, if I was to go with the 3 way, which brand would you suggest.
Sam, I seem to recall that you use Code 100 track, but I could be wrong. Walthers Shinohara makes the 3-way turnout in Code 83, while Peco and Shinohara make the 3-way turnout in Code 100. I have the Walthers Shinohara Code 83 3-way turnout.
The reason that I used three 3-way turnouts end to end was to save space which was at a premium on my layout as I built the coach yard. If you have the space, my recommendation would be to place two standard turnouts end to end. It will be a lot easier to route the movements with a RH and a LH turnout than with a 3-way. I have actually marked the movements of my 3-way turnouts on my control panel. The two most difficult turnouts to control are the 3-way and the double slip.
I will give you an example. To run a Walthers Shinohara 3 way turnout straight through, the point rails on the single leg must be set right and the point rails on the center must be set left. To run a Walthers Shinohara 3 way turnout divergent right, the point rails on the single leg must be set right and the point rails on the center must be set right. To run a Walthers Shinohara 3 way turnout left, the point rails on the single leg must be set left and the point rails on the center must be set left. That is hard to remember when you are in the midst of running trains. A double slip route is even harder to remember.
richhotrainSam, I seem to recall that you use Code 100 track, but I could be wrong.
Rich, on my old layout the track was all code 100, this new layout I'm working on is all code 83. Well since I have the space it looks like I will use two standard turnouts end to end. This will be less headaches in the long run.
ollevon richhotrainSam, I seem to recall that you use Code 100 track, but I could be wrong. Rich, on my old layout the track was all code 100, this new layout I'm working on is all code 83. Well since I have the space it looks like I will use two standard turnouts end to end. This will be less headaches in the long run. Sam
Agreed.