Your end product is amazing, so this is only a comment, not a critique.
When I do my plaster rocks I WANT the paint to be absorbed and to run so that I have no hard edges. I, therefore do not seal them before adding the colors.
Dave
Lackawanna Route of the Phoebe Snow
thank you Keith, my latest molds look just like the one in that picture
your feedback will be put to great use and i really appreciate the time you took to reply so completely!
Matthew
Thank you! the extra pictures are a nice bonus!
i'm not going to have a real mountains or god forbid a railroad with no tunnel, but its really rocky here in Maine and i want to work in a segment of the layout with a chunk of rock where its been blasted out for the right of way of the train
i need to learn how to post pictures here as i saw a layout that was very close to the look i'm going for...
matthew
here is the look i'm looking for, not sure if inserted url worked
Dave, that is a very interesting approach in which has never crossed my mind. A rather expanding thought I might add. I've have been getting tired of using the same approach in painting theses dioramas. I've always preferred the "do not seal them before adding the colors" for various reasons, but never seem to get that chance to do so. Perhaps in the future I shall keep that in mind before sealing.
Thank you for your input.. and feel free to give new approaches, this is a learning thread for us all.
Keith
Well I was hoping to hear from Dave, and a few others. I don't mind others contributing
to this thread in order of offering different ways to do any particular task.
But let me just add a few thoughts here. The issue Dave brought up is a good one.
"Do not seal them before adding the colors"
I have mixed feelings concerning this and would like to share some interesting things I have learned along the way. I can go both ways on this. One being is when you seal the dry plaster, you lose a tad detail in the rock face. Small but never the less you lose detail.
I have had problems painting dry plaster that has not been sealed.. perhaps I could use a few pointers. Problems arising were the dry plaster casting would suck up the paint, to the point if you make a mistake .. well its almost a Do or Die .. to me~
Another problem was that dry plaster can absorb only so much paint and if you try to add more paint, the paint comes off and the white plaster shows through. Therefore, its best to let the paint dry thoroughly, before coming back and adding additional paint.
My problem I have found, since I join many pieces together with plaster cloth, the seam of the plaster cloth (area where two plaster castings are joined) will show up differently as far as taking up the paint. Almost showing the area of the seam. Perhaps different densities of plaster (hydro-cal verses plaster cloth) is the problem.
So aside from giving the diorama a complete over-all added strength in sealing the dry plaster, sealing the plaster gives me a better approach to painting more of a homogeneous color across different types of plaster densities.
Now on a side note here. I have made mountain faces with using only Foam board and Plaster cloth. I found the plaster cloth was losing tidbits of plaster all over the place. Sealing it seemed like the only solution.
I know with a smaller project of plaster castings I'll give it a try and NOT seal the plaster casting. Mainly to learn a different approach as far as painting it.. and also NOT lose any detail in the rock face itself.
In this pic below I tried to add a granite rock look to some areas using various dabs of colors including using white craft paint. It wasn't easy, but it would seem you can do it. The one area in particular is in the bottom right. A very large triangle I made using plaster cloth painted to look like granite. Also, I even took some wet plaster cloth and brushed on a thin 'white wash' layer of plaster. It gives the rock face a different look and more of a granite look to the rock face. At times it seemed a tad too much plaster, but I found using a clean wet brush of water, I could take off some of the thin plaster, leaving a multi color rock with various colors that seemed to show through the thin white wash of plaster and giving it a granite look.
Any others that want to share their ideas of painting plaster .. feel free to add your approach. This is for all of us, to learn and to share.
I will follow up with some other pics tomorrow.
Take care all, Keith
It looks good, Keith.
The way I paint rocks is by diluting the paint between 5 parts water and one part paint and 9 parts water and one part paint. I then dab it on the unsealed rocks with a foam brush. I apply the very weak solution of black, last. It can be applied more than once if you want to make it darker. Dabbing it on allows it to run into the cracks, which really brings out the texture.
It works well on plaster portals and walls, too.
Dave I thank you Bud~ This is all starting to make sense to me. Obviously I was diluting WAY too much. Which gives reason why my Dry plaster painting was mostly a failure. My ratio might be good enough for sealed plaster, but not for Dry plaster. Painting all those deep cracks in the rock faces has been a problem. I was almost considering placing Black Dye (to make a gray / neutral color of plaster) into the mixing of plaster. I said to my wife, I wonder if anyone caught on to what Dave was talking about here? I did blow up your pic and I can see pretty much how things were done. It makes sense and I thank you for your input. I feel much better in terms of painting Dry plaster and shall give it a try at the next opportune time.
Thank You~!
Well this post is on using just Foam board and plaster cloth. I did / do have a Game Plan, and as each hurdle comes along, I'm faced with various obstacles in which I tackle one at a time.
Lets jump back to the layout. This is a massive N scale layout in which has taken me 5 years to get here. Its been fun, I'm retired and the layout is in the Living Room, so I can watch TV and work at the same time. Its usually nice during the winter.. because I'm indoors.
Now, this massive layout (2 4'x8' sheets of plywood)(in an L shape) has duel mains and round and round she goes. Creating the ill effects of the 'Layered Cake' look. How I go about making this NOT looking like the layered cake shall be my goal.
My approach was to use Foam board. Relatively cheap and easy to use, and its over-all strength for such a light item is fantastic. Considering how many duel mains and portals I'll need, foam board seemed like a nice choice. Remember, this is N scale and not that much clearance in modeling this scale. I figure using foam board would be the most consistent.
If you wet foam board on one side with water and leave out in the sun, it will warp. Creating some nice curves without bending and possibly breaking the foam board.
I use Gorilla glue (not the CA glue by Gorilla) to hold both pieces of foam board together. I have had the best results using just plain Gorilla glue. I call it 'liquid foam'. Yes.. when exposed to air.. this stuff bubbles up, expands and looks more like foam.
At times my edges are not too straight and might have gaps, the Gorilla glue comes into play. Using blue 'painters tape' I lay a piece of tape on both sides of the cracks / area to be glued. When the glue expands, it fills in the gaps nicely.
I'm guessing most of you get the idea. So, here's some pics.. just a few~
Yes.. that is Handi-wrap for protection for the tracks below. Dealing with dripping plaster cloth is dangerous.
I didn't take much planning on cutting small strips of foam board, mostly using scrap pieces of laying around.
AS you might have noticed, there is no shoulder to the road. But in doing so, I have the strength from gluing the top and side together, but no shoulder.
Using plaster cloth, tacked on in certain places, (usually the top portion) I can add a shoulder to the road and also create a different look than what you have seen so far. Its very important to let that 'tacked on' portion of plaster cloth dry thoroughly, before coming back and adding shape using water.. and also letting that dry as well.
I also use a wet piece of plaster cloth to help wet the 'tacked on' plaster cloth and give it shape in the process.
Here's the finished product without paint.
How this comes out as far as paint and over-all shape ? Well, that's still in the making. Any areas of rock face that I don't like, can be changed by adding additional plaster cloth. At this point, I am making the insides of the tunnel / portal area. I paint these before adding them to the diorama. Too much of a head ache to paint afterwards.
To make a tunnel for N scale, find a spray paint can and lay it on its side. Next wet a piece of plaster cloth and lay it over the spray can. Let that dry. The next day come back and add detail / rock faces using more wet plaster cloth laid on the inside of the proposed tunnel. While the wet plaster cloth that has been laid in a rather clumpy fashion, I use a wadded up paper towel, I dab the goopy plaster cloth to give it rock detail.
I will add these tunnels to the diorama and also be able to fashion them.. either at the end of the foam board.. or have the luxury of moving them forward (adding additional plaster cloth) to accommodate all those tracks involved. Remember, I am trying to avoid the layered cake look. I think this approach might give me some lead-way.
Well I guess that's it for now, unless someone has a question.. you'll just have to wait for more posts. This hasn't been easy for me to post and write.. but I give it my best. I hope some of you have enjoyed this.
TC
Well its been some time now and I thought I would share what I have been up to. I do like to 'follow thru' on a subject, and I shall. Things have been moving along and an update is in order.
Mostly just pics with little words, perhaps more on the 'information' side. Lets start with a few pics.
This one particular piece (above pics) as you can see is made with 'foam board' and 'plaster cloth'
So many portals to deal with gave me little options of what to do and the exact measurements for double mains would be a 'tall order' Using Foam board seemed to give me some lattitude.
Now I won't talk much of that but would rather lead into another thought process of what I've been up to lately.
At the top of this very page, a member here, Dave gave some input. His input was explained in a basic way and I felt most did not even really understand what exactly Dave was saying.. and how vitally important it was concerning many issues in painting plaster.
Now I won't go into the 'exacts' of it all.. it seems so hard to explain .. but a 'time-saver' to say the least.. and quite fun ..once the technique is mastered.
Ok.. lets do a re-cap of what was covered.
Dave, quote; "
Sounds basic enough. Only the basic description of course. What Dave said in a few follow-ups.. gave me so much inspiration.. I had to make more mountains and roads. I wanted to give Dave's input a shot. I knew what he was saying.. and for me to even try to explain what has taken place.. well its a hard topic.
The issues were.
1. Whether to seal the plaster first before painting or NOT.
2. Problems arising from sealing (Loss of detail) (as well as not allowing the paint to flow) (my biggest problem was getting the paint down into the cracks of the rocks.. seemed to be time consuming. Daves solution was the answer in short.
3. Ratio's in terms of diluting and having certain mixtures. Dave gave out a 5:1 / 7:1 ratio / mixture. On a personal note.. using hydrocal plaster seems to be a very hard dense plaster and requires some attention as apposed to using craft plaster.. a rather poreous plaster. Both require attention.. and I usually use a piece of 'test plaster' that has been poured recently.
Ok.. lets move along here. This could get boring.. so lets move along.
Special side note. Those (above pics) gray / granite looking rock face. Well I had some 'left-over' mixture of paint using Dave's 5:1 ratio.. well I didn't like the mess of color of what I had already painted .. and I had some leftover paint.. so why not? I threw it on.. and after a minute or so.. I was shocked to see how nice it looked. Considering I wasn't expecting anything, almost intentionally ruining the piece.. and behold~ Granite looking rock face.
So enjoy the next up-coming pics.. and see what all this has led me to.. and the excitement I've had.
I bought this already made off of Ebay. Something 'used' and the price is good.. well my wife is all for it~ The model does come with its own mountain side.. but I wanted my own. I had a good idea of what I wanted.. and went slowly.
The more I painted the easier it got. I started to have fun.
Looking good.
Well Dave.. yes, Thanks to you~
This is a very special approach to painting a large area of plaster. I believe what had brought Dave's technique in on this, is that I had made the comment; "To paint the rocks was time consuming" In short .. it is. Every little crack, every hard to get space, was literally a chore. And then even when you thought you were done, you happen to flip it upside down.. and seem more white areas of plaster than haven't been hit once with paint. So, Dave's approach was 10 times faster. I jotted down some thoughts in case anyone wants to try this.
Dave's approach has saved me time and made painting the plaster creations fun.
Once mastered one can paint large area's with almost a single stroke of paint.
Special attention should be directed towards the mixtures. Too thin and the plaster white shows through (in some instances .. no problem) Too thick and the paint appears opaque and fills in the detail too much and the paint does not flow. I would suggest to have a piece of poured plaster (dried of course) to do a test pattern.. mixtures are very important. If the ratio's are correct, but seems too thin, wait a spell, the paint does thicken nicely on a summer day.
Special attention should be given to the type of plaster you are using. HydroCal is very dense as opposed to Craft / Hobby plaster. A very porous plaster casting would take up / soak up more paint.. as opposed to the hard.. almost smooth like casting of Hydrocal.
Now all this conversations of such.. leads me to think about the basic approach here. To me.. Dave's approach was awesome. Fast, easy painting. Understanding the concept is another.
You basically want a thin, well mixture of color to almost splash and flow the paint on. In doing so.. you allow the paint to take on new characterists. Once the fear is gone, the fun begins.
Thanks Again Dave~
Just some pics, just trying to 'follow-up' on things.
Very nice job.
Dave, always.. Thanks for the kind words. I am no expert, but I must admit, this becoming fun. lol~
I did not build this castle. I bought it used. The modeling was, fine and I learned a few things studying his approach. The problem I had with the model it that the 'flashings' were left on and poorly joined parts, especially the stone walls. Every time I looked at the seams of the walls it gave me shudders. using some paster cloth and lightly swabbing the gaps in the jointed walls, seemed to give it a face lift. But then the painting too on a different sort. The plaster acting and looking like 'mortared' joints also took up the paint. Any area's of paint that took up too much craft paint.. could / can be easily scraped out using a Kemper tool of some sort. Thus exposing the white of the plaster again. Seems I could even add plaster to other area's of the wall for added. I tried to imagine all aspects of a wall.. time .. weather .. things growning on it.. casting various colors. Painting walls with a motared look is not easy, but once again I had fun trying my best to create an old stone wall.
I am not done landscaping this castle. I would guess I'm about 1/3rd done. I've already created plenty of mountains and rocks.. but not with enough vegetation for my likes. A Model Railroading friend of mine once said.. (and I used this in modeling so many times)
"What is it that you want in your attempt to create something, and what means will you go about to reach that desired goal" (well in so many words)
What is it that I want with this castle?
I want to visualize a castle deep in the forest. I want it to not be noticed at first. But be able to see directly into the various area's of 'focal points' as the viewer walks about the layout.
I would image the 'placement' and 'size' of trees and their gradient positioning of each tree would help me obtain my desires.
I visualize ferns.. grasses.. life all around.. with green everywhere including moss and vines.
Now on a side note here. Here is a pic of my other diorama I have already made. I am dying to paint this.. but feel the need to finish the castle first.
Sort of a preview ~
(small note; I paint the walls and portals first) (I think you can see why)
Excellent, nice of you to take the time to share the techniques.
Lynn
Present Layout progress
http://cs.trains.com/mrr/f/11/p/290127/3372174.aspx#3372174
WICKEMAN, Why Thank You~ But you know alot of these techniques have been talked about here in many threads. Just not too long ago someone asked about a 'mortared' look for buildings and brick walls. Someone mentioned some type of filler, putty of some sort. Since I am used to using plaster, I figured a little of plaster power with a wet brush mix would fill in the cracks and seams of the poorly jointed walls. Plaster cloth seem to cover the larger seams of the Stone wall. Stratching out of plaster for reasons of too much color seem to bring back the original whiteness of the plaster, an added feature of using plaster for that 'mortar' look.
How about an Update? I am having so much fun landscaping this.. I thought I'd share some pics.. and even a pic or two how I made these. Its really quite fun. Even my wife got into making the flowers and vines.
Keith this is a fantastic thread, and your plaster scenery is outstanding. ..... (Feel free to visit the Diner again. You and everybody else are always welcome in the Diner. )
GARRY
HEARTLAND DIVISION, CB&Q RR
EVERYWHERE LOST; WE HUSTLE OUR CABOOSE FOR YOU
Blazin that looks fantastic. I haven't been around for a while and have just had the time to catch up but I will indeed be keeping an eye open for your other threads.
Thank you both Garry and Wickman. I think the one thing to take notice is, I'm having fun, its true, your skills increase as you put in the time. Most important my wife gets involved.
So here is WS FOLIAGE. This pic is of Autumn colors. Below is the Medium Green WS FOLIAGE already 'teased' slightly apart.
Well my wife gets involved and I think that is where I learn the most. lol~ So I end up telling her how I do it and lets take it from there. And for all the first time viewers out there .. well here ya go~ Because I always liked threads like this and was 'soul food' for a thirsty mind.
Well there are instructions on the back, not that some of us follow directions anyways. I tell my wife I do it differently. "The pic on the back shows the both thumbs and fingers on top... but I don't" "So keep the left thumb on top.. but using the right thumb and finger.. 'Pull from the underside of the material'
Well of course she wonders why.
"That way you don't end up with a 'garden hose effect' of a bunch of material all rolled up from the pulling."
"When you pull .. pull from the underside to get the desired effect.. that way you don't end up ruining the front side of the Foliage."
She does that, I then add .. "Then pull the front side of the whole area.. gently giving it a rounded appearance. When this dries.. we'll be able to pick up the whole 'wired mess' as one".
Well using a water bottle cap.. mixing in Elmers white glue 50/50.. perhaps a tad thicker.. and using my index finger.. I dap the 'teased foliage' with the mixture of glue.
Now I don't know how many of you like such a thing, but there is a WS Foliage that has a lovely lavender/ purple mix of colors. On the bottom of the / inside the packet is the real gem of hidden surprises. The excess powedered of a mix. The perfect color and medium to use.
I dump that onto a smooth paper plate and then flip over the material and pull in 'One Direction' (oh I've gone in a circular fashion to clean up the last tid bits) but in one direction seems to give it some sort of life.
Well once dried.. hopefully it can be seen in the pics. I do know this. When positioning the pieces.. its best to roll them around.. in a clock wise fashion. It would seem there is a top and a bottom in a 'one direction' approach or in any approach. See what looks best.
Well this is more of a follow-up. Believe it or not, I am almost finished. And will be working on the next diorama that will conect to this one. I am actually working from the top down on this to see if its any easier.
So much for my logic. OK.. lets move on~
I mixed up two colors to see if it added a certain flowing of color.
Stirred, and slightly shakened.
Go ahead and do a gradient of color, be bold, have fun.
Just a follow-up on the things I've been doing here.
Same area of the diorama in hopes of you being able to see the colors. (above thread)
Well we've all seen some sort of technique in the forums and I like to give each one a try.
WS FIELD GRASS dipped at the ends with a small amount of glue. After it dries.. I cut off that very end oh.. about an inch or less.
Then using scizzors and with a fan / cut technique come up with some sort of Cat tails that go along some sort of seasonal stream.
Strangely enough I made less than 10 of them. Look at the foreground. Seems they do a nice job.. but quite frankly half the time I can't even see them. They blend in.. most of time you really don't see them.. but the added color seems to add to it. Seasoning I guess.~
You may have noticed some trees there.. of the Birch varieity~ Well I got those off the internet.. in some 'Grab bag of trees' don't know.. what they are, but after breaking them apart .. well they seem to add to it.
Now on a small note, some of those Birch trees have been removed. For the next couple of days, I'm sure my wife will give some input here. She already has.
But here is more of what the final 'adjustments' of trees.. their positions..and height.