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Industrial Track Arrangements

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  • Member since
    October 2004
  • From: Richmond, Texas
  • 393 posts
Posted by RDG1519 on Thursday, August 23, 2012 8:00 AM

Gents,

As to tight radius mentioned earlier. I have calculated radius as tight as 12 inch (HO) going into an industry track. This is on maps showing Reading Company trackage on American St, Willow and Noble Streets  and the Delaware water front in Philly. Most switchers could handle this. In the world of 40 foot boxcars this would be no problem. If the loco could not handle the tight radius than they would use other frieght cars in between. The old Alco ads used to say the Alco switchers could go anywhere a 40 ft boxcar could go.

In the geographic areas discussed above, other than on a team track, I have yet to find two different industries served by the same siding that would require one company's cars to be moved while another is being switched. I am sure these situations existed but they would not be the preferred arrangement. If possible avoid them as it will make your operating session more enjoyable.

Another issue is trailing point turnouts on dual street trackage or dual track mainlines. Railroads worked real hard to eliminate facing point turnouts for the obvious safety reasons.  Even to the extent of creating a switchback that was accessed through a trailing point turnout to serve an industry siding that would otherwise be a facing point.

Hope this is helpful, Chris

Great grandson of John Kiefer, Engineman Philadelphia and Reading Railroad, 1893 to 1932
  • Member since
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  • From: OH
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Posted by BRAKIE on Thursday, August 23, 2012 9:49 AM

Another issue is trailing point turnouts on dual street trackage or dual track mainlines. Railroads worked real hard to eliminate facing point turnouts for the obvious safety reasons

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Actually a facing point siding was no problem..

We would simply switch the industry on our return trip since as one old line PRR conductor told me "we comin' back this a' way any how so,why bother to make a needless run around? I asked about the needed work-I was a rookie at the time and this was my third or fourth local and the first with this conductor-I was on the extra board and the regular brakeman marked off.

Larry

Conductor.

Summerset Ry.


"Stay Alert, Don't get hurt  Safety First!"

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  • From: Northern CA Bay Area
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Posted by cuyama on Thursday, August 23, 2012 10:30 AM

BRAKIE
Again,the industry owns their siding not the serving railroad so,the railroad only maintains the switch and a few feet of track as needed and usually ends up being a low priority on the work orders especially if its a minor problem.

Larry, you state that a lot as an absolute. It certainly is not always the case here in the west, where in some situations the railroad owns the industrial spur track and industries grow up along it. In fact, I know first-hand of similar situations in the east as well. So that may be correct most of the time, but it's not always true.

Byron

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  • From: Northern CA Bay Area
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Posted by cuyama on Thursday, August 23, 2012 10:36 AM

RDG1519
I have calculated radius as tight as 12 inch (HO) going into an industry track. This is on maps showing Reading Company trackage on American St, Willow and Noble Streets  and the Delaware water front in Philly.

That certainly is not typical, although very tight curves existed in some places. Note that some railroad-developed track maps are not strictly to scale, so it can be misleading at times. Not saying that's the situation there, just making a general point.

RDG1519
Another issue is trailing point turnouts on dual street trackage or dual track mainlines. Railroads worked real hard to eliminate facing point turnouts for the obvious safety reasons.

I think you'll find that the facing-point issue is typically a main track concern, not in industrial areas, which are very often (usually?) single track. As Larry notes, facing point or trailing point is meaningless on an out-and-back single track route where all the facing points become trailing points and vice-versa.

  • Member since
    October 2001
  • From: OH
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Posted by BRAKIE on Thursday, August 23, 2012 11:51 AM

cuyama

BRAKIE
Again,the industry owns their siding not the serving railroad so,the railroad only maintains the switch and a few feet of track as needed and usually ends up being a low priority on the work orders especially if its a minor problem.

Larry, you state that a lot as an absolute. It certainly is not always the case here in the west, where in some situations the railroad owns the industrial spur track and industries grow up along it. In fact, I know first-hand of similar situations in the east as well. So that may be correct most of the time, but it's not always true.

Byron

Byron,In my 9 1/2 years I never heard of a railroad owned industrial siding-they own the industrial branch but,not the industry sidings there is many reasons for that to include liability and upkeep. I wouldn't know why a railroad would want to own track on private property.Something for me to research this winter or in the wee hours when I can't sleep..Big Smile

I could mention using bad  track as a reason to drop a  occasional single car customer since all they would need to do is embargo the track as unsafe..Surprise

BTW..Usually when a industry switches from rail to truck the railroad usually removes the switch..I seen many such sidings in my travels and research on Bing and Goggle maps.

Larry

Conductor.

Summerset Ry.


"Stay Alert, Don't get hurt  Safety First!"

  • Member since
    December 2001
  • From: Northern CA Bay Area
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Posted by cuyama on Thursday, August 23, 2012 1:34 PM

deleted

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Posted by DSO17 on Thursday, August 23, 2012 7:51 PM

RDG1519

Gents,

As to tight radius mentioned earlier. I have calculated radius as tight as 12 inch (HO) going into an industry track. This is on maps showing Reading Company trackage on American St, Willow and Noble Streets  and the Delaware water front in Philly. Most switchers could handle this. In the world of 40 foot boxcars this would be no problem. If the loco could not handle the tight radius than they would use other frieght cars in between. The old Alco ads used to say the Alco switchers could go anywhere a 40 ft boxcar could go.

 

 

     Some of the Reading shifters used in Philadelphia had special couplers with a joint right behind the head to allow getting around a sharp curve.

     One trick used by Conrail on former PRR street trackage in South Philly where a curve into a factory was too sharp to allow the engine to be coupled to the car was to kick the car around the curve and then run the engine around light, couple up and spot the car at the loading dock. Outbound cars were pulled around the curve with a cable kept at the factory for that purpose.

  • Member since
    October 2004
  • From: Richmond, Texas
  • 393 posts
Posted by RDG1519 on Sunday, August 26, 2012 8:21 AM

Cuyama and DSO17,

My calcs were made from Reading Co drawings and also city maps. Street widths and building lines shown.

DSO17, I believe they call them "swivel couplers". Diesel switchers with these could handle a tighter radius with these.

From the RDG Co Locomotive diagram book, an ALCO S-1 "equipped with a swivel coupler will permit locomotive to operate on a 60 ft radius curve with a car." 60 ft radius in HO scale is 8.275 inches. I do not think even my ATLAS S-1 will do that

Great grandson of John Kiefer, Engineman Philadelphia and Reading Railroad, 1893 to 1932

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