I have installed my turntable and figured out exactly where I want my roundhouse to be. I intend to scratchbuild so that I can have it just the size I want. It will be modeled somewhat along the lines of the Walther steam era roundhouse kit.
The first question that comes to mind is what is the transition for the track when it enters the roundhouse structure. From what pictures I have seen, it is no longer laid on ties but appears to be laid directly on the concrete floor of the roundhouse. Is that the case? And does that mean that it is bolted directly to the concrete (prototypically speaking)? If so, then I am thinking that my roundhouse should have a floor of styrene sheet that approximates the thickness of the ties in my HO track and the rails would then be glued directly to the styrene as it leaves the ties leading to the entrance of the roundhouse. Does this make sense?
Also, I notice that pictures of the Walthers roundhouse indicate some sort of working pit below the tracks in the roundhouse. Can anyone tell me what the prototype dimensions would be for these pits and what would be the means of access; stairs, ladder, etc?
And lastly, what would be used at the inside ends of the tracks to keep the locos from running right thru the back end of the roundhouse?
I have considered using the Walthers roundhouse but I want my stalls configured a certain way. I want three stalls that are 85' long, two stalls that are 70' long and also an office area attached to the side (or posibly the rear depending on how it fits my layout).
Thanks
wdcrvr
What I did is just use regular straight track in the stalls, then added a section of wood between the rails and on the outside of the rails, and painted it the same concrete color as the floor of the roundhouse. I forget the exact dimensions but I think the section between the rails was like 3/8" wide and maybe 1/8" high, it was available in 2' lengths at the LHS. You have to leave a little room on the inside part of the rails for the wheel flanges.
1. The tops of the rails for track in a roundhouse were level with the concrete surface. This was done so that the workers could move carts and equipment around easily, plus not trip over the rails all the time. Track between the turntable and roundhouse floor was laid on wood ties.
2. Most roundhouse pits were just wide enough to be between the rails. The length varied and had steps at the end for access. They should be as long as the longest locomotive that was serviced there, but did not usually run under the tender. There may have been one stall where the pit was wider than the track for special work. In that case, the rail was laid on a steel beam, and the beam was supported by steel up-rights, probably by steel H beams, along the length of the suspended rails every few feet.
3. Wheel stops could be used at the ends of the track in the roundhouse. These were not standard between roads. They were not designed to stop a moving locomotive, but one that may have rolled some.
Elmer.
The above is my opinion, from an active and experienced Model Railroader in N scale and HO since 1961.
(Modeling Freelance, Eastern US, HO scale, in 1962, with NCE DCC for locomotive control and a stand alone LocoNet for block detection and signals.) http://waynes-trains.com/ at home, and N scale at the Club.
Here are some pics of what I did. I used plaster castings of the D&RGW Durango roundhouse from Cibolo Crossing for the walls. I made the base out of 2 overlapping sheets of aircraft plywood. I started by making a cardboard pattern, then cut the plywood to fit. I laid my finger tracks all the way into the stalls like stix did.
Here's what the pattern looked like.
Here's a pic with the plywood cut, the walls up, and the framing mostly in place.
Here's a shot showing how the roundhouse sits down over the finger tracks.
When all was done, I stained some suitable stripwood and paved the area around the tracks with wood. It stays in place when the structure is lifted off.
Mike Lehman
Urbana, IL
All the round houses on the standard railroad (PRR) was made of oak blocks. The block floor was easily repaired when damaged and it only took a short time to get real nasty looking. Between rail pits were concrete lined and had stairs at each end or only one end. Some houses had service pits at the end of the between rail pits. Some even had swinging rail sections over the service pits.
http://crestlineprr.com/eoakfloor.2001.jpg.html
Pete
I pray every day I break even, Cause I can really use the money!
I started with nothing and still have most of it left!
My Durango floor isn't prototypical, just easy to go and looks good. IIRC, Durango's floor was actually packed dirt. I'm gonna say the mgm't sprang for concrete eventually.
Hi
I have only really seen the modern versions, built I am sure to current codes as required by the operators and RR rules, such as the one at Steamtown. Other engine houses are the straight through kind, but I imagine the principles are all the same.
The tracks inside a roundhouse are indeed laid into the concrete floor. I have not seen any "bolts" to hold them and assume they were laid in when the concrete was poured. There is a "shelf" the track is set into at the pit part and just laid into the concrete leading up to the pit. You would be correct to have a "floor" at level with the top of the tracks within your roundhouse, if I understand you correctly. I think you could glue the styrene "floor" to the tops of the ties of the HO tracks you use inside, that should approximate the floor being level with the top of the rails.
There ARE working pits...I have seen from about 2 feet deep to about 5 feet deep. The "old roundhouse historic view" of the brick lined pit at Steamtown is about only 2 feet deep, I believe it was said on the plaque that workers laid down in there to work on the bottom of the locos {NOT me...to claustrophobic!!} . The modern section looks to be about 5 feet deep and is as wide as the space between the rails. There are concrete stairs at the end of the pits I have seen. I have also seen step ladders in one pit, but usually there are stairs, so either could be correct.
The lenth of the pit, as mentioned, would be as long as that of the general locos parked over the pit,,but not under the tender so much as noted. I have also seen one pit that was built wider than the tracks, and the previous poster is right that it was track supported on steel beams horizontal over verticals. The "scale" size of your pit is about as wide as you can get between the rails and as long as your longest loco. In order to"install" a pit, I have seen modelers cut the ties out between the rails for the pit section with some success. Others have laid rail right into their "floor material" tie-less.
The ends of the pits have a block on them, though I think it would only serve to derail the front trucks, not to really stop the loco at a speed greater than a crawl. I have seen them that look like a concrete tie set in place over the ends of the rails. {Steamtown only uses a large thick chain tossed under and braced against the wheels to "hold the loco" from rolling in the spot inside the roundhouse although otehr areas they use chucks}..
good luck building and using your round house!!!
-G .
Just my thoughts, ideas, opinions and experiences. Others may vary.
HO and N Scale.
After long and careful thought, they have convinced me. I have come to the conclusion that they are right. The aliens did it.
Thanks for all the info given so far. I have noticed that is most pictures of roundhouse models they show the engines facing out which would mean they had to back the engine into the roundhouse. That doesn't sound like a good idea from a prototype standpoint. I would think it would be a lot safer to pull in forward and back up coming out. So, does anyone know how it was/is done on the 1:1 scale lines? The answer to that question would also tell me how to locate the working pits that would be under the locomotives.
They would be backed in to put the stack under the hoods which were usually by the door side. Some houses had the smoke hoods in the back and in that case the loco would be driven in forward. Most stalls were for parking and light running repairs. Some houses had stalls for major or specialized work.In the case where some sort of major work needed to be done then the fire would be dumped and the boiler allowed to cool down slowly before it would be towed or pushed into the stall. Most locos in the house were parked under steam and fire tenders would keep watch of the fire and water glass so the loco could be ready to move at a moments notice. That would be the reason to make sure the stack was under the smoke hood.
locoi1sa They would be backed in to put the stack under the hoods which were usually by the door side. Some houses had the smoke hoods in the back and in that case the loco would be driven in forward. Most stalls were for parking and light running repairs.
They would be backed in to put the stack under the hoods which were usually by the door side. Some houses had the smoke hoods in the back and in that case the loco would be driven in forward. Most stalls were for parking and light running repairs.
It was my impression that in the real world locos were placed in the stalls boiler end first. I was led to believe that this was done because most of the work usually done on the loco would be done around the running gear and boiler, and that there was more room around the loco to work with the front of the loco toward the back of the stall.
Like I said. It would depend on the way the house was designed and to what purpose the stall would be used for. Just because the stalls widen out the further you go in does not mean there is more room. Machinery, repair parts, storage and lockers, service pits, tools, benches and ducting, water, steam, and air lines could make any space smaller in a hurry. Crestline was a drive in house. http://crestlineprr.com/H-9.jpg.html The east Altoona round house was also a drive in. http://www.altoonaworks.info/pics/contributor/j-dziobko/john_32.jpg The Midland Colorado roundhouse was a back in. http://www.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://www.thespiritoftheoldwest.com/NewImages/Imag-Colorado-ColoradoSprings-HistorySociety.JPG&imgrefurl=http://www.thespiritoftheoldwest.com/Attractions-Colorado-WorkPage.htm&h=288&w=400&sz=83&tbnid=PO2YjPdzi6XZtM:&tbnh=93&tbnw=129&zoom=1&usg=__ALihho8fMLGoXZYG8dm7hu7WWrk=&docid=AxzsqR_WeB6JfM&hl=en&sa=X&ei=XTgXUIS0FIb50gGXgIGQCQ&ved=0CFcQ9QEwBg&dur=4981
This is when Crestline was a back in round house. http://crestlineprr.com/k4inpit.jpg.html One of the reasons for the change to drive in.
If you look at the design of a roundhouse, it sure seems like there would be more space at the back of the stall compared to the front of the stall.
Rich
Alton Junction
Hi wdcrvr
All the loco facilities I have been in or around have had concrete floors the the rails inset into the floor with an inspection pit.
I am not sure exactly what the mounting plates look like but a lot of the ones I have seen have clips of one sort or another to hold the rail down.
I am told at some earlier time the floors where wood and in some cases just packed dirt even the dirt floor ones had wood lined inspection pits.
If your railway is reasonably modern Peco make inspection pits one for code 100 rail one for a smaller size rail can't remember the code size these may be worth a look as they make the pit easy to do.
regards John
In many roundhouses there were no effective stops at the end of the rails.
They relied on cogent operators and crews to not run through the back wall. There are photos extant of engines that did, indeed, punch through the back wall. Railroad went to great pains to level the round house floors to avoid simple "rollers". Fortunately, airbrakes are designed to fail LOCKED. So a parked engine with fires dropped and air tank empty was a locked up affair anyway. Roundhouse shop compressors could fill the air tanks of cold engines if they needed to be moved slightly.
Some rare roundhouses that were combined full shops had one or two main service tracks with "capstan pulls" at the ends for moving dead engines back and forth within the shop.
Richard
If I can't fix it, I can fix it so it can't be fixed
wdcrvrThanks for all the info given so far. I have noticed that is most pictures of roundhouse models they show the engines facing out which would mean they had to back the engine into the roundhouse.
One must be careful about using model photos to deduce real-world practices. The important indicator is where the smokejack was located. A quick google image search for railroad roundhouse shows many real-life roundhouses with the smokejacks at the far end from the doors, indicating engines were typically headed in.
Such as:
and
HO models are about 50-50, with Walthers, Atlas, and AMB/LaserKit smokejack locations indicating that they were designed for engines to head in while others (sometimes duplicating a particular prototype) designed for engines to back in. It seems that a lot of smaller and older prototypes (like many narrow gauge roundhouses) were of the "back-in" variety.
Layout Design GalleryLayout Design Special Interest Group
wdcrvr Thanks for all the info given so far. I have noticed that is most pictures of roundhouse models they show the engines facing out which would mean they had to back the engine into the roundhouse. That doesn't sound like a good idea from a prototype standpoint. I would think it would be a lot safer to pull in forward and back up coming out. So, does anyone know how it was/is done on the 1:1 scale lines? The answer to that question would also tell me how to locate the working pits that would be under the locomotives. Thanks wdcrvr
Hi again
At Steamtown National Histaoric PArk, they drive the locos in front first, tender back at the doors.
The smoke jacks chimney holes are at the BACK of the round house, furthest from the doors.
They WILL BACK a loco in and have a nose peeking out of the doors for photo ops, but that is NOT how they are stored or serviced. They Are NOSE in first for servicing, storage, etc. There are no smoke jack at the front of the roundhouses by the doors...the NOSE pics leave the smoke stack OUTSIDE the roundhouse for the photo ops.
I have noted elsewhere, that at "straight through" or Straight engine houses, too, they seem to go in nose first.
I wouldn't imagine Steamtown or others to be doing it contrary to standard operating proceedures of the past.
That doesn't mean out west they might not do it differently!
Unless you're modelling a specific roundhouse that was a "back-in", I would go with one where the engines go in head first. My guess would be well over 90% of roundhouses operated that way.
Since you guys are talking about roundhouses, you might be intersted in seeing the newest roundhouse at the Age of Steam facility in Sugarcreek, Ohio. There are lots of detailed pictures of both the interior and exterior of this brand new roundhouse that is designed to store/repair steam engines. See: http://www.ageofsteamroundhouse.com/index.html .
Mike