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Lost with layout design

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  • Member since
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  • From: Centennial, CO
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Posted by Stourbridge Lion on Thursday, July 12, 2012 2:38 PM

Given your interest I would seriously look at DCC.  Like me you might be looking at a Multi-Deck design but likely without a Helix but maybe a Elevator or as mentioned earlier a Nolix.  I would definitely go with a design that is along the walls and the Lift-Out bridge is a good choice in front of the door opening.

Cowboy

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Posted by kokomo on Thursday, July 12, 2012 2:06 PM

I will definitely take a look at your website.

Well, when I thought about an upper level I was just thinking of train going thru mountains, some trees and a bridge or viaduct. When I thought about an underground level I thought of something were to hide trains and a parking lot mostly.

I like passenger trains since I like the concept of a busy station and passengers waiting at platforms. However, this does not mean I dislike goods yards. I wanted some industry just to add realism to the issue of moving cars from one side of the layout to the other.

One thing I forgot to mention is that I was thinking of a 1960-70 environment where containers would not be that common as they are nowadays. I always had in mind a secondary line where trains would not be long either.

I know nothing of train operation so I just want something fun and not merely sit down watching trains passing by. I think of 2 or 3 locos working (one passenger? one cargo train? and one shunting?) and scenery.

Thanks

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Posted by gandydancer19 on Thursday, July 12, 2012 1:25 PM

 

I think a helix in a small room is going to take up too much space. If you want to get to another level, you can also use what is called a nolix. That is really a helix that goes around the outside of the layout or around the walls. The walls could be lined with mountain scenery that the RR would have to go around on before it reaches an upper level. My layout uses one. Plus, I have two doors to cross and have four lift bridges. (You might want to take a look at my web site. The URL or link is down in my signature.) A nolix in your size room may have to go around twice. That would make for an interesting run.

I think that I could do well with the space you have, but at the same time, it would be crowded and the RR modeled would be a small industrial line or short line with just a couple of locomotives.

Any layout designed for operation should take into account the movement of goods by rail. That gets us back to the basics rather than just saying that you want a couple of stations and some industries. Your RR could represent a short line that has a few large shipping customers. (Few, as in two or three.) They could be larger industries that have a couple of tracks each. Since they probably do not ship things to each other, your RR would need some type of outside connection to another RR. Yes, hidden staging could do that, but so could one or two interchange tracks. The interchange tracks could be a couple of tracks in the main yard. I would envision a small yard with four tracks at the most, and a small loco service area. These could be mingled with, or in between, the industries.

If you are going to have two levels, one level could be the industries with a small industrial yard of three to four tracks used in local switching. The line then goes up to the second level where the main yard with the interchange tracks and loco facilities are located. You may also have room for another industry or two. As the line goes up the mountain side, it would cross several bridges that may be in front of the window(s) and doorway. Trains would be short, five to seven cars. You could run a couple of more cars if you were to double-head, which would add some more interest.

Elmer.

The above is my opinion, from an active and experienced Model Railroader in N scale and HO since 1961.

(Modeling Freelance, Eastern US, HO scale, in 1962, with NCE DCC for locomotive control and a stand alone LocoNet for block detection and signals.) http://waynes-trains.com/ at home, and N scale at the Club.

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Posted by kokomo on Thursday, July 12, 2012 1:11 PM

I got ideas, but I do not have any plan made so far, so I try to place everything I have in mind in drawings and got different results. One of the ideas was to put a helix ramp in order to go to level -1.

However I had read someplace else on the internet that perhaps with 2.5% slope and around 3 foot in diameter, you could place a decent spiral ramp. But perhaps I am wrong.

I found this diagram on a book, and maybe it could be interesting. It would need a loop to allow trains to come back, so that could go to level -1. I was wondering on a hinged bridge (or detachable) to put in front of the door. It could be a two level one also...

As I was explaining before, I got too many doubts yet

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Posted by cuyama on Thursday, July 12, 2012 12:47 PM

It would have been helpful if you had posted more detail about your goals and your sketch earlier.

Experienced helix builders have generally found 26" radius and up to be more reliable in HO. With clearances and supports, that's about a 5-foot diameter footprint -- a good portion of your room.

I don't believe either door will open with the lift-out in place in your sketch. Up to you, but many people would find that very inconvenient.

Good luck.

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Posted by kokomo on Thursday, July 12, 2012 9:03 AM

Perhaps I was not clear enough when I explained my "ambitions":

I thought about an underground level (-1) where to park trains and exchange wagons, perhaps with a loop included.

I also thought about an upper level (+1) with bridges and tunnels, perhaps the small mountain station could be placed at this level. I even tought about a small coal mine

On ground level (0) I thought about a medium size station with 3 passenger tracks, a loco shed, a warehouse and such. I also thought about a 5 or 6 yard and an industry such as a Sawmill.

I forgot to say that on my previous layout, a double oval, I focused more on scenery at the expense of a boring operation. Thus, I got fed up of it moments after completing the layout! Beginner mistakes.

Now I what I would like is: to have a train running in the back, for instance, while doing some shunting. I like a nice layout with attractive scenery, mountains and such, but I would also like some interesting train operation. Please find a rough sketch I made and of which I am not very happy

Am I too ambitious?

 

Once again, thanks for your comments!!!

 

ps: all of my rolling stock (European) is HO, I know that N scale would offer more possibilities, but I am not convinced

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Posted by NP01 on Thursday, July 12, 2012 4:52 AM

I am new to Modeling. But one thing I learned is that spending a lot of time on layout design before breaking ground is important. For me, I was forced into it thankfully because I needed to move a heater before I could start building ... And that took time and money. 

With limited experience, I recommend-

1. At least 24" radius

2. If the door opens outside or if you can move so it does, then around the room with a bridge. 

3. The more I think the more I like "Cuyama"'s plan. The thing I would try to change is to hide a portion of the elliptical.

4. Are you married to HO? - mightbe better?

NP

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Posted by "JaBear" on Thursday, July 12, 2012 3:40 AM

Gidday, looking at cuyama / Bryons  clever "quick sketch" you will see that he has put in, not counting the yard area, 5 spurs, which to my mind equals at the least 5 industries, more if a spur feeds multiple small industries.

It would appear that your "wish list" has grown since your first post on this thread, I'd suggest Smile that you sort out what you really want and take it from there. While its not directly related to model railroading, the old saying "your eyes are bigger than your belly" is applicable here. We all from time to time get more ambitious than our space allows. Sigh . This, in my opinion, is a case where "less is best.

18 inch radii are doable, JUST be well aware of the limitations, 4 axle diesels, shortcoupled steam, 40 ft freight cars etc.

Have Fun, Big Smile

Cheers,the Bear.

 

 

"One difference between pessimists and optimists is that while pessimists are more often right, optimists have far more fun."

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Posted by kokomo on Wednesday, July 11, 2012 8:34 PM

thanks everybody for their suggestions!

 

i was thinking of using 18" and 22" radii due to space constraints and also some sort of bridge that could be lifted in order to have a moving part. i must confess that it never occurred to me that I could not have one due to small room available. do you think viable to place 2 stations, an underground station for acting as a sort of fiddle yard toturn locos around and an industry all on this layout? thanks again so much for your time answering

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Posted by cuyama on Wednesday, July 11, 2012 7:11 PM

While the first thought is often to start plopping down rectangles, that may not always be the best approach, particularly in a small room. The space can host an interesting inside-outside donut-style layout. The 24 inch radius might even be a little too broad, but it shows what can be done when we look beyond the rectangle in model railroad track planning.

Access for the windows is easy and while this quick sketch is not optimized for all of the Original Poster's specific needs, it would be straightforward to incorporate most of them.

 

 

 Best of luck.

 Byron

 

 

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Posted by gandydancer19 on Wednesday, July 11, 2012 6:13 PM

 

Well, I would start with the bench work first. That way you can see how much room you have for running trains. You can easily reach in about 24 inches. To get the most use of the room, I would build 24 inch wide bench work all around the walls.

Once you have that up, you can figure at least one track around the room. From there, you can see what will fit.

If you don't want to actually build the bench work, you could use paper on the floor.

Elmer.

The above is my opinion, from an active and experienced Model Railroader in N scale and HO since 1961.

(Modeling Freelance, Eastern US, HO scale, in 1962, with NCE DCC for locomotive control and a stand alone LocoNet for block detection and signals.) http://waynes-trains.com/ at home, and N scale at the Club.

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Posted by Doughless on Wednesday, July 11, 2012 4:22 PM

Can't offer much help with the design....

I was just curious as to when things went metric over in Kokomo.

- Douglas

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Posted by kokomo on Wednesday, July 11, 2012 3:15 PM

Hi everybody! I'm at the office right now and have little time. Just to mention that left wall is 239 cm (130+21+88), the left window width is 75 cm.

Apologize again for being short

Thanks for the help!!!

 

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Posted by cuyama on Wednesday, July 11, 2012 2:32 PM

By the way, there is a problem with the dimensions you have given, unless the room is far out of square (which is not reflected in the shape of your drawing and the measurements of the other walls). The right-hand wall is shown as 240cm, the left-hand wall seems to total 294 cm unless I am misinterpreting the dimensions.

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Posted by Stourbridge Lion on Wednesday, July 11, 2012 2:20 PM

Man that is going to be a tough space.  How much access is going to be need for the windows?

Side Note:  2.54cm = 1 inch

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Posted by cuyama on Wednesday, July 11, 2012 2:07 PM

Best foundational reference if you'd like to design the layout yourself: John Armstrong's Track Planning for Realistic Operation

If one of the doors can remain closed once construction begins, that could help fit more into the room. 

Best of luck with your layout. 

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Posted by Paulus Jas on Wednesday, July 11, 2012 10:44 AM

hi,

maybe this thread is food for thoughts

Paul

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Lost with layout design
Posted by kokomo on Wednesday, July 11, 2012 10:17 AM

Hello everyone!

 

I am going to start building a new layout, but I am somehow lost with the design. I have a room for myself, of which I share rough estimates in centimeters (1 inch = 2.5 cm). This room has two windows. I share some photos so you can get a better idea.

What I had in mind were some rough notions of things I wanted to have on my layout:

- Mountains with tunnels

- A viaduct and a bridge

- A small creek

- A medium sized station with a loco shed and some cargo yard

- A small station

- An industry (such as Sawmill, where an industrial narrow gauge line could be sketched such as HOf of Busch's )

 

Here are some pics of the room I have available all for myself (Domestic authority has granted permission! Wink and I plan to remove the desk and plant you can see.

 

I am planning to use Atlas code 83 track and I even considered the possbility of building my own track for some specific areas such as the industry site.

Thanks so much for the assistance, I am totally lost with this as of now!

Cheers

 

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