Due to the space that I can build in and the restrictions from varying objects (furnace, freezer, shelves,etc), I can only build a point to point (actually 3 points, an E), no room for loops. My plan is to have a main industry, a small yard with service facilities, and a town with various small industries. I am curious if anyone else has done point to point layouts or urban layouts. What have you done? How big?
Jim
Not sure if your use of the word "or" means point to point cannot be an urban layout. Any setting can be made into a point to point layout, including an urban one.
Your question is very open ended. If you're looking for E shaped track plans, or L , or C shaped that can be modified to an E, try the trackplan database that is offered by this site. Only magazine subscribers have access however.
- Douglas
The layout that I'm building sounds similar to yours only perhaps a little bigger. It is an around the room shelf layout and the room is 9x16. I chose point to point because it is based upon an actual branch of the Lehigh Valley that dead ended in the town where my wife lived. It starts out as a yard, goes through an industrial area, then a small town and dead ends at a paper mill. I like the ops side of railroading more than continuous running anyway.
Tim Fahey
Musconetcong Branch of the Lehigh Valley RR
My layout is a continuous-running loop, but in an urban setting. I find that kind of modeling very satisfying. I suspect that it's more time-consuming to build than a rural layout, because structure kits just take time. To be brutally honest, structure kits end up costing a lot more per square foot of layout than open fields, too.
My own layout includes a subway line beneath the "normal" layout. It's not for everyone, but I find subways fascinating and I'm glad I had the chance to finally build one of my own. Another option for urban railroading is trolleys, which can run on extremely tight curves, and might give you the opportunity for some continuous running where you didn't think it was possible.
Every type of railroad opens up its own interesting modeling opportunities, though. Logging and mining railroads in the steam era are about as far from urban railroading as you can get, and they have a lot to offer with unique locomotives and cars that will operate on tight curves and switchbacks.
It takes an iron man to play with a toy iron horse.
While I don't have the space restrictions you have, I am building a point to point. Since the room is unencumbered, I might eventually have a drop in bridge across the door way for continuous running, but it won't be a normal part of operations. The room is 12x31 ft in the basement and the layout is planned to extend into the rest of the basement. This is my second point to point (the first was ended due to a move, while still laying and wiring the track) after several continuous loop layouts.
Enjoy
Paul
PRR1 I can only build a point to point (actually 3 points, an E), no room for loops. My plan is to have a main industry, a small yard with service facilities, and a town with various small industries. I am curious if anyone else has done point to point layouts or urban layouts.
I am building (if I stop wasting time writing my history thesis and these webby things) an urban mostly-point-to-point layout. It has a continuous oval route- but would not normally be operated that way.
It does not "HAVE" a town. It is a city, with different neighborhoods and districts, but all part of one city. It is on an island, and end of the line. Actually the end of SIX lines: Santa Fe, Southern Pacific, Missouri Pacific, M-K-T, Rock Island, Burlington.
But I am only modeling Santa Fe and the local port terminal switching railroad.
Nothing goes "through." Operation is point to staging.
You describe your point-to-point as like an "E". Mine is like a fork with two tines. Mainline trains come from staging (Damara) across the causeway to the ATSF Island Yard to be broken up. Some cars go downtown ir to industries near the engine terminal. But most freight traffic is backtracked to be shunted into the Port yard. The port switcher then delivers to waterfront spurs along tracks which generally parallel the Santa Fe tracks.
I wish there was room for all staging to be hidden, and for a hidden reverse loop so outgoing passenger trains could come back in the opposite direction with no visible turning at the far end. I settled for stub staging. I am considering adding a reverse loop IN the visible scene primarily for turnbing passenger trains. I will turn passenger trains that arrive in my "city" as part of the supposedly-realistic operation... my prototype had a balloon track around the enginehouse for this. To turn trains that are supposed to be "gone," I will have to bring them back into the scene.
I think I will have to operate a day's schedule in morning and afternoon sessions, with a noon lunch break when the morning outbound passenger train is turned to become the afternoon inbound train. Half a day may be as much as I want to operate at one session anyway.
This is being done in a space about 10 feet square in a "spare" bedroom. (and art storage room) (and "stuff" room)...with a few obstacles.
The layout, N scale, is run around the walls of the room on shelves, 14 inches to 20-something deep. This is what I have labeled "Plan D."
Almost the whole layout is the city of Karankawa- my version of Galveston. Track enters the scene from the mainland end of a "2 mile long" masonry arch causeway bridge...a scene with about a foot long representation of a beachhouse community whose residents care more about the beachy life than safety from hurricanes... Too small a place for trains to stop, except for signals re the lift bridge.
Trains cross the causeway- the only significant scene NOT "urban"--- but it is part of the experience of the city of Karankawa...
The long causeway- actually only 6 feet- is both a duckunder (hopefully not too bad at 5 foot elevation) and also a rollaway for ease of moving stuff in and out of the room...
We enter the city via the beach and the beachfront amusement district. And a neighborhood of Victorian homes. (This is just a mockup w mostly stand-in buildings)
Then we pass i nto the waterfromnt district. All I have built so far in the visible staging yard. It needs to be completed BEFORE I build another shelf section with the port yard and the Santa Fe yard in front of it/ towards the middle of the room.
Then past the big export terminal grain elevator-- which hides the "sneak" connection to the continuous -run loop and the entrance to hidden staging for passenger trains.
Passenger train go to downtown station...
"Supposed" to look something like this...
Passenger train staging hidden under/inside port cargo sheds... tops of shops and channel scene visible over roofs of sheds...
To put the shrimpboat harbor in the correct place and have a clear view to backdrop, I needed to allow track that goes into staging run across dock. We have just have to pretend we don't see the 8-car streamliner running down what is supposed to be an humble spur...
So my layout is almost all one urban area- but with several scenes.
PRR1Due to the space that I can build in and the restrictions from varying objects (furnace, freezer, shelves,etc), I can only build a point to point (actually 3 points, an E), no room for loops. My plan is to have a main industry, a small yard with service facilities, and a town with various small industries. I am curious if anyone else has done point to point layouts or urban layouts. What have you done? How big?
Seems like there were several good references for HSR on this forum.
PRR1 --
I have a basically C-shaped layout in a 10x15 space, and it has large "blob" peninsulas at the end with return loops on them. Not that there's anything wrong with point to point, by the way, just not my preferred way of operating.
Can you post a drawing of your available space with the obstacles labeled like Leighant did above? That would help us suggest different possibilities for your space.
Connecticut Valley Railroad A Branch of the New York, New Haven, and Hartford
"If you think you can do a thing or think you can't do a thing, you're right." -- Henry Ford
Nicely done. Mine is yet to start construction but will consist of two towns back to back and staging at the ends with continuous running possible. Let me stress modeling, planning, and the concept all nicely done.
PRR1 Due to the space that I can build in and the restrictions from varying objects (furnace, freezer, shelves,etc), I can only build a point to point (actually 3 points, an E), no room for loops. My plan is to have a main industry, a small yard with service facilities, and a town with various small industries. I am curious if anyone else has done point to point layouts or urban layouts. What have you done? How big?
One 11 foot long and 15" deep urban shelf switching railroad on a back wall in our living room (here you are seeing about the 8 leftmost feet of it):
Track plan:
And another one around the walls layout between 9" and 25" deep, with a liftout in front of the door in a 11.5 x 6.5 foot room downstairs:
Latest track plan:
Smile, Stein
Texas ZepherIf you are just looking for ideas of what can be done in said space, it might be worth your time to research the Hoboken Shore Railroad.
Hoboken Shore track plans
As a 12-foot shelf
In a large spare room. Note the the real-life railroad had a very tight curve around the Castle Point Bluff. I made this 18" on the HO track plan, which might be still too wide for the center of the Original Poster's "E".
Hoboken Shore prototype info
Layout Design GalleryLayout Design Special Interest Group
As soon as I can get a sketch of what room I have, I will post it. Just to give you and idea, the west wall I can use 16 to 17 feet. The south wall 11'-8". The east wall 6'-0". I was planning 24" shelves along these walls, with a peninsula 15'-0" long, 24" wide except at the end where it will be 36" x 36". This way I can get maximum trackage.
I have a pdf file of my area. However, I do not know how to post to the forum. Can anyone help?
Jim,
To post a document you need to upload it to your hosting service.
My pdf service is the free version and I have been unable to upload a file.
If you have a scanner you could print the file, scan it into your computer and then upload it.
Good luck.
Bob
Don't Ever Give Up
PRR1 I have a pdf file of my area. However, I do not know how to post to the forum. Can anyone help? Jim
1) Make a jpg image (e.g. by the simple expedient of taking a screenshot of your document - alt+PrtScr if you are running windows, starte mspaint, paste into mspaint using ctrl+v, save as jpg) (Edit: or you can use a PDF to JPG converter: http://pdf2jpg.net/)
2) Upload jpg to some image sharing website on the net (e.g. http://www.photobucket.com)
3) Post a link to the image on photobucket here (click on "IMG CODE" under image on photobucket, paste into post editor here).
The main thing about true point to point layouts is to remember to have plenty of runaround tracks -- and long enough switch leads on both ends of those run around tracks -- so that the trains can serve both facing point and trailing point turnouts. One thing the custom track plans by Don Mitchell (who I think has retired from custom track plan work, but he has had many articles in Model Railroader and Model Railroad Planning over the years) always remember to include are the run around tracks.
Actually an E shaped layout opens up some very interesting track planning possibilities. The central leg of the E could be your origination points for locals that serve east and west points (the other legs). This would enable two crews to work without getting in each other's way, or in the way of the yardmaster.
Or one far leg of the E could be the yard/origination/staging point which would serve a branch (the cental leg) and then the "main." That would work well for one man operation in particular.
An urban or quasi urban setting offers lots of possibilities for tightly compacted industries and lots of switching -- a good thing since a reasonably small point to point really is not going to have long manifest freights. But don't ignore the possibilities of rural or quasi rural -- in parts of Illinois I have seen switching opportunities in rural areas almost as dense as in a city.
This is slightly OT -- but now that Kalmbach has discovered CD collections for its magazines, I think a disc of the complete set of Model Railroad Planning would be very handy, because that is where the search capability would really pay off. Plus the older issues are not easy to find at swap meets, unlike older MRs or RMCs.
Dave Nelson
Picking up on Stein's suggestion, open your file and then take a picture of the screen.
An example follows:\
I' sure your picture will show up better as this was a lot of small print and I just pointed and shot.
Content removed due to a completely frak'ed up and incompetent Kalmbach customer service.
Hopefully this will work.
A three-point point-to-point style layout seems to make sense when in an urban setting. I would say go for the urban setting and point-to-point style.
The Lehigh Valley Railroad, the Route of the Black Diamond Express, John Wilkes and Maple Leaf.
-Jake, modeling the Barclay, Towanda & Susquehanna.
PRR1 Hopefully this will work.
Not totally - can't read the distances. But one gets an impression. Stairs come down at upper right end of image. One door at lower right, next to stairs. Freezer and furnace along lower center, standpipe w/shutoff, gas meter and something along top center.
What are the dimensions, if you just describe them verbally?
Room: 22'-10" x 11'-8 1/2"
Longest leg" : 17'-0"
Middle Peninsula: 15'-9"
Short leg: 6'-0", with 4'-0" extension perpendicular
Aisles: 1'-10" approx
Walk arounds by furnace, freezer and shelving from 2'-2" to 2'-9"
As you can see, it is very tight. I am planning on a yard on one of the two longest areas, an industry (coalfied gas) on the short area, and the city with small industries on the remaining long area. The reason I picked a point to point is because I feel an oval layout would be boring. Another reason is because where I presently live a short line railroad operates. And finally an urban area because of my love of the Franklin and South Manchester.