I have found where some people have used Siever's benchwork. Has anyone used Mianne or Benchridge? I know that many of you prefer your own handiwork, and I do have the tools, but my problem is time. I am afraid that it would take me too long to get that part built, and then I would get discouraged. I am getting up in years.
PRR1 - Welcome to Trains.com!
Darren (BLHS & CRRM Lifetime Member)
Delaware and Hudson Virtual Museum (DHVM), Railroad Adventures (RRAdventures)
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There was a thread on this topic I believe last December. It starts out on a rather negative note, but I believe that the poster eventually got what he wanted and was very happy. See: http://cs.trains.com/TRCCS/forums/t/200167.aspx?PageIndex=1
Hiring a local carpenter or handy man to build it for you or with you may be an alternative.
Elmer.
The above is my opinion, from an active and experienced Model Railroader in N scale and HO since 1961.
(Modeling Freelance, Eastern US, HO scale, in 1962, with NCE DCC for locomotive control and a stand alone LocoNet for block detection and signals.) http://waynes-trains.com/ at home, and N scale at the Club.
I used Siever's for my benchwork, and I have absolutely no complaints. My orders were shipped very quickly, and they have great customer service.
Here's an example of how they really pay close attention to their customers. I ordered my benchwork in sections since my layout is built to be taken apart for whenever the evil word "move" comes into the picture. I started out just purchasing materials to make one corner section of the layout so that I could make sure that would work before progressing with the rest of the benchwork. Since two sides of the corner sections that I came up with are attached to other sections of the layout, I only ordered one pair of legs. Shortly after placing the order, I received an e-mail from them asking me to confirm that I was only wanting one pair of legs for the order I'd placed. I explained what I was doing, and they had my order shipped right away.
The orders are very neatly packed, and they include extra nuts, bolts, washers, and screws.
Kevin
http://chatanuga.org/RailPage.html
http://chatanuga.org/WLMR.html
PRR1 I have found where some people have used Siever's benchwork. Has anyone used Mianne or Benchridge? I know that many of you prefer your own handiwork, and I do have the tools, but my problem is time. I am afraid that it would take me too long to get that part built, and then I would get discouraged. I am getting up in years.
The LION, having access to a carpentry shop, fabricated all of the pieces there, and brought them up to the train room for assembly. The process was remarkably quick and painless. That project can be seen here.
The Route of the Broadway Lion The Largest Subway Layout in North Dakota.
Here there be cats. LIONS with CAMERAS
Assembling benchwork has got to be the quickest and most straightforward part of building a layout. I mean assembling my own benchwork, to my own plan, from a pile of steel studs and a couple of boxes of little screws. Starting with a bare room, I had all the benchwork in half a garage assembled in about six working hours. The most recent extension, a peninsula 800mm wide and ten feet long, went together in sixty minutes from a standing start.
Since I'm averse to spending more money than I have to, I can't see paying a professional for work that I can do myself. I'm sure that the difference between what I actually spent and what I would have payed if I had ordered prefab parts was enough to provide me with a hundred yards of flex for the next phase of construction.
Three other, non-standard, factors that enter into my equation but might not apply generally:
In case anyone isn't already aware, I have the same attitude about commercial specialwork.
I'll be the first to concede that mine is a minority position, but then again I prefer to march to my own drummer.
Chuck (Modeling Central Japan in September, 1964 - on steel stud benchwork)
PRR, my Local Hobby Shop bought used kitchen cabinets and they worked well. Has a neat finished look plus there is storage.
I hate Rust
I'm familiar with Benchridge and will have to say that his work is very good. The only problem is with shipping. You can e-mail him at the_ridge@juno.com
http://www.benchridge.com/
Roger Hensley= ECI Railroad - http://madisonrails.railfan.net/eci/eci_new.html == Railroads of Madison County - http://madisonrails.railfan.net/ =
I'm a pretty handy carpenter and have never used pre-fab benchwork.
That said, Sievers, Mianne, Benchridge, and Woodland Scenics all make benchwork modules. In spite of having an office in Massachusetts. I believe Mianne is in either France or Switzerland. Some people have experienced shipping delays. Mianne, however, is clear hardwood, thus somewhat higher quality. Woodland Scenics modules only come in certain shapes, to fit their modular system, but they are significantly cheaper than the others (although the legs are very short (36") and might have to be extended.
Still, if you have the tools and know how to use them, I would say you're far better off making your own. Unless your planning a monstrous, large room-filling empire, assembling open grid benchwork from 2x2 and 1x3 dimensional lumber is a weekend project (my C shaped 10x15 took about 10 hours to build, not counting the shopping and the occasional help of one of my boys). If you can't devote large blocks of time to it, perhaps a week or two will do you. But the cost will be significantly less.
Assuming you already know what your layout will look like (and you should, before building benchwork), I don't think you'll lose interest over the short period of time required. Also, remember that it has to be sturdy, but not necessarily pretty. You can always hang a valance around it.
Connecticut Valley Railroad A Branch of the New York, New Haven, and Hartford
"If you think you can do a thing or think you can't do a thing, you're right." -- Henry Ford
I started the previous thread reference by maxman and admit that at the time I had some doubts about Mianne. However, since then I have been quite happy and am very impressed with the quality of their product. I have placed a couple of additional orders with them in 2012 and they shipped very promptly. I think whatever production bottlenecks they encountered last year are behind them now. They produce a quality product that is very well designed, packaged, documented, etc. Everything fits together with precision.
It does require a plywood top however (I used 1/2" Baltic Birch rather than the recommend 1/2" luan). It doesn't really lend itself to using spline roadbed in an open frame type construction. That wasn't an issue for the type of layout I am building, but you should be aware of this.
I know there are cabinet makers and professional woodworkers amongst us, but frankly, I have never seen "home made" benchwork that comes close in overall quality and appearance to the Mianne product. I think you get what you pay for in this case.
Keith
Having considerable woodworking skills and and tools, commercially available benchwork is of no interest to me. I do however think one thing said here deserves comment:
K. Holt I know there are cabinet makers and professional woodworkers amongst us, but frankly, I have never seen "home made" benchwork that comes close in overall quality and appearance to the Mianne product. I think you get what you pay for in this case. Keith
I obviously don't know the quality of the "home made" layouts you have seen, but this comment begs the question - Beyond the required accuracy in size, level plumb and basic fit, why would someone do "cabinet level" work for something not seen? The framing in your house is not done to cabinet standards. Yet it is square and accurate to the required tolerances.
I am currently rebuilding my layout into modules that will allow it to be relocated in the future. Strenght and accuracy are very important. But even at that I would not call it cabinet work - but maybe you would if the quality of the "home made" bench work you have seen was poor.
Sheldon
ATLANTIC CENTRAL I obviously don't know the quality of the "home made" layouts you have seen, but this comment begs the question - Beyond the required accuracy in size, level plumb and basic fit, why would someone do "cabinet level" work for something not seen?
Rob Spangler
wp8thsub ATLANTIC CENTRAL: I obviously don't know the quality of the "home made" layouts you have seen, but this comment begs the question - Beyond the required accuracy in size, level plumb and basic fit, why would someone do "cabinet level" work for something not seen? Typical quality out there must be pretty poor. I have visitors to my layout and people viewing my blog tell me all the time about the high level of finish on my benchwork, but it's nothing more than 1X3 furring strips from Home Depot assembled with drywall screws. I probably exeercise more care in assembly than I need to given that it will all be hidden under scenery but I wouldn't consider it cabinet grade or anything close.
ATLANTIC CENTRAL: I obviously don't know the quality of the "home made" layouts you have seen, but this comment begs the question - Beyond the required accuracy in size, level plumb and basic fit, why would someone do "cabinet level" work for something not seen?
Now I realize my mistake in all this, I forgot we don't teach things like "woodshop" in high school anymore.
Yes, I am one of those grumpy old people who is amazed at what people can't or won't do for them selves anymore.
I've used Siever's for two layouts and found their product to be excellent, as is their service. Their shipment arrived very quickly, is easy to put together, and from my viewpoint their benchwork is very sturdy and well worth the cost.
Wayne
Modeling HO Freelance Logging Railroad.
ATLANTIC CENTRAL Yes, I am one of those grumpy old people who is amazed at what people can't or won't do for them selves anymore. Sheldon
I think some of you might be missing the OP's point. He said that he had the tools, and he didn't say that he couldn't do it. What he did say was that time was an issue, and that he was getting up in years. I don't know if "up in years" was meant to be literal or figurative. But I think that (almost) everyone would agree that assembling what amounts to a benchwork kit has got to be easier than hauling off to the local big box store and wrestling home with a bunch of raw material.
Or is this another instance where the benchwork scratchbuilders take issue with the kit (or is it almost RTR) benchwork builders?
maxman ATLANTIC CENTRAL: Yes, I am one of those grumpy old people who is amazed at what people can't or won't do for them selves anymore. Sheldon I think some of you might be missing the OP's point. He said that he had the tools, and he didn't say that he couldn't do it. What he did say was that time was an issue, and that he was getting up in years. I don't know if "up in years" was meant to be literal or figurative. But I think that (almost) everyone would agree that assembling what amounts to a benchwork kit has got to be easier than hauling off to the local big box store and wrestling home with a bunch of raw material. Or is this another instance where the benchwork scratchbuilders take issue with the kit (or is it almost RTR) benchwork builders?
ATLANTIC CENTRAL: Yes, I am one of those grumpy old people who is amazed at what people can't or won't do for them selves anymore. Sheldon
Go back and read my first post in this thread. My rsponse was NOT to the OP or his choices, but was a response to a response that suggested that "factory made, purchased benchwork" was vastly superior to what most/many modelers could/would/have done.
And/or that benchwork should for some reason, be cabinet level woodworking.
All my comments flow from my first post.
maxman I think some of you might be missing the OP's point. He said that he had the tools, and he didn't say that he couldn't do it. What he did say was that time was an issue, and that he was getting up in years. I don't know if "up in years" was meant to be literal or figurative.
I think some of you might be missing the OP's point. He said that he had the tools, and he didn't say that he couldn't do it. What he did say was that time was an issue, and that he was getting up in years. I don't know if "up in years" was meant to be literal or figurative.
I was responding to Sheldon's point about "cabinet grade" benchwork as well, not the OP's question. You raise another subject as well:
But I think that (almost) everyone would agree that assembling what amounts to a benchwork kit has got to be easier than hauling off to the local big box store and wrestling home with a bunch of raw material. Or is this another instance where the benchwork scratchbuilders take issue with the kit (or is it almost RTR) benchwork builders?
But I think that (almost) everyone would agree that assembling what amounts to a benchwork kit has got to be easier than hauling off to the local big box store and wrestling home with a bunch of raw material.
I wouldn't say that I take issue with someone using commercial benchwork, as that's a personal choice. I will say that for myself I find "scratchbuilding" benchwork to be a fairly quick and easy process, including the trip to the lumber yard or home center. It is necessary to sort through some lumber to find suitable pieces, so if you would rather pay for a benchwork supplier to provide pre-sorted lumber with pre-drilled holes, go for it. It's a valid option if that's where you want to direct your hobby $$$.
ATLANTIC CENTRAL Now I realize my mistake in all this, I forgot we don't teach things like "woodshop" in high school anymore. Yes, I am one of those grumpy old people who is amazed at what people can't or won't do for them selves anymore. Sheldon
I agree with Sheldon.... to a point. It is a shame that we don't teach kids how to really make things any more. Everything my kids know about using tools, they learned from me.
OTOH, I like making things out of wood, and I can see how someone without the proper tools and training might be very intimidated by the thought of making his own benchwork.
On the other hand, I know of very FEW people (actually, no one personally) who have cabinet-grade benchwork. Even if I wanted something "showroom quality" under my layout (what's actually under there is a lot of boxes of stuff and the benchwork hidden by a valance), I would put a false front on it, not try to make something structural like true cabinetry.
But the point is, it has to be level, and it has to be sturdy (it doesn't really even have to be plumb, although that helps with stability). Anyone with a bubble level should be able to figure out "level" and "plumb" and a miter saw, especially a power one, makes short work of angle braces.
I'd strongly encourage anyone with even passable woodworking skills to give benchwork a try.
And for the person who said you need to put plywood over prefab benchwork, you don't. Extruded foam panels work just fine. Baltic birch plywood is really overkill for under a layout. If you're going to use plywood, ordinary construction grade stuff is just fine.
Convenience of using a benchwork kit is just that, a convenience. Much like using an electric refrigerator/freezer instead of an "ice box." How many of us have canned food in the kitchen, or use frozen food instead of "scratch building" dinner every night?
When allocating time and resources, benchwork kits are very convenient for many modelers, myself included. The use of these kits is neither a reflection of one's modeling skills nor does it have any direct relationship to the quality of one's completed layout---it's just a convenience that some of us choose to use.
"And for the person who said you need to put plywood over prefab benchwork, you don't. Extruded foam panels work just fine. Baltic birch plywood is really overkill for under a layout. If you're going to use plywood, ordinary construction grade stuff is just fine."
CTValleyRR,
I have no intention to pick a fight, but this comment does a disservice to other hobbyists who are considering Mianne benchwork for a future layout. You obviously have no idea what you are talking about. The manufacturer of Mianne benchwork makes it clear you need a plywood top, and anyone who has seen this benchwork would quickly realize that it requires additional lateral stability that foam would simply not provide. Clearly you have not seen the benchwork that you appear to claim expertise about. You shouldn't so confidently offer advice as if it is based on fact or knowledge when neither is true. You could cause someone to make a faulty purchase with the wrong expectations.
K. Holt "And for the person who said you need to put plywood over prefab benchwork, you don't. Extruded foam panels work just fine. Baltic birch plywood is really overkill for under a layout. If you're going to use plywood, ordinary construction grade stuff is just fine." CTValleyRR, I have no intention to pick a fight, but this comment does a disservice to other hobbyists who are considering Mianne benchwork for a future layout. You obviously have no idea what you are talking about. The manufacturer of Mianne benchwork makes it clear you need a plywood top, and anyone who has seen this benchwork would quickly realize that it requires additional lateral stability that foam would simply not provide. Clearly you have not seen the benchwork that you appear to claim expertise about. You shouldn't so confidently offer advice as if it is based on fact or knowledge when neither is true. You could cause someone to make a faulty purchase with the wrong expectations. Keith
OK, as stated before I don't have any interest or experiance with these products, and for the benifit of those who often post comments without reading everything in the thread, I made no claims about how to use or not use any brand of commercial benchwork, but this but this round of disscussion deserves one more opinion.
What is the point of buying some high priced bench work kit if it is still so flimsy that it requirs a plywood top?
Er, maybe because when you put the plywood top on it, it isn't flimsy. What's your point?
"I make no claims about how to use or not use any brand of commercial benchwork"
Dude, you specifically countered my comment that Mianne benchwork, which is a commercial benchwork, can be used with a foam top. How could your statements possible be any more self contradictory?
Obviously you have a strong opinion against using commercial benchwork and feel a need to vent that opinion here. Trust me, nobody cares. The OP asked if anyone had experience specifically with Mianne, and since I do, I gave him my feedback. Take your opinions and blabbering elsewhere. I'm trying to help someone by providing specific feedback in response to the OP's original question. None of us care if you don't like commercial benchwork because you don't make enough money to afford it.
K. Holt Er, maybe because when you put the plywood top on it, it isn't flimsy. What's your point? "I make no claims about how to use or not use any brand of commercial benchwork" Dude, you specifically countered my comment that Mianne benchwork, which is a commercial benchwork, can be used with a foam top. How could your statements possible be any more self contradictory? Obviously you have a strong opinion against using commercial benchwork and feel a need to vent that opinion here. Trust me, nobody cares. The OP asked if anyone had experience specifically with Mianne, and since I do, I gave him my feedback. Take your opinions and blabbering elsewhere. I'm trying to help someone by providing specific feedback in response to the OP's original question. None of us care if you don't like commercial benchwork because you don't make enough money to afford it.
Read the little boxes to the left of each post, I'm not the guy who said that.
It was the CTValleyRR who made the foam/plywood comment.
Personally, I don't use foam, but I also build benchwork that does not need to be decked with plywood, of any kind, on every sq inch.
I wish to thank you gentleman for your comments. I see that this is a slightly touchy subject. Perhaps I should clarify my position, and why I am looking at commercial benchwork.
Yes, I do have the saws, the drills and all sorts of hand tools. And I have used them for projects, only not on one this size. Pretty much I am self taught, so it can be raw in the finished project. From what I have read, benchwork is important and needs to be solid, plumb and straight. Anything else and you can have problems. That is why I was leaning to commercial, because professional woodworkers make them.
I originally thought of doing it myself. I went and looked at lumber to price. I figured that ti would be about $400 less for everything. One of the big things I found was trying to finding straight lumber. It is really sad. The lumber is too twisted and warped anymore in the stores.
Amazing that there are people who want to be elitist even about benchwork. Crazy.
The manufactured stuff is fine, if that is what you want.
I guarantee you I'm not one that is trying to be elitist. On the other hand, one of the things that gets really annoying about this forum is every time you try to ask for help on something, everyone piles on with comments to the effect that "well that's really stupid, why would you spend so much money to do it that way? You must be an idiot".
I mean, I know better than to post a question on this forum about Fast Tracks jigs, because immediately a hundred people will come out of the woodwork to tell me how stupid that is and how real men hand lay their own track without jigs for less money. I don't care. I chose to use Fast Tracks, I love it, and sometimes I have a question or two. But unfortunately this is the wrong place to do that.
Another example. Yesterday I bought an Overland brass SD70ace locomotive. Now that i've said that, the hordes will come out and say how stupid that is because I can buy a plastic locomotive with the same level of detail for 1/5th the cost. I don't care, I like brass. It would be nice to be able to ask questions about brass on this forum, but there are so many people that want to express their opinion about it you can't get the information you are looking for.
Hey, some people don't like to buy ballast from Arizona Rock and Mineral because they can buy cat litter cheaper. I say, that's great. How imaginative. If that's want they want, its not my place to offer an opinion on the matter.
This forum could be a lot more useful if people would look at what the OP is asking, and try to answer the question as stated. If you don't have any information of the subject, everyone would most likely be best served if you kept quiet. If we could eliminate this silly, childish gibberish that goes on in this forum, maybe it could be a useful and informative place to be. As it is, its hardly worth having to read through all the flame wars to find anything worth reading…..
Here's a couple of questions for all of you who like to berate anyone that uses "ready made" benchwork:
Do you use ready-made commercial flextrack or do you always lay your own?
Do you use ready-made trees or do you always make your own and glue all the foliage yourself?
Do you scratch build all of your buildings or do you sometimes use kits?
I could go on and on with questions like these. Different people choose to spend their time in this hobby on different aspects of it, while spending some money to save time on others. Some people I guess have enough free time to do everything themselves from scratch. Good for you. There is nothing wrong with any of this, and however someone wants to pursue this hobby is just fine. You guys should be mature enough to accept that.
Why is it so hard for you guys to accept that some people just like to buy their benchwork and get on with other aspects of model railroading that interest them more? I mean seriously guys, this is a really immature discussion that keeps coming up on this forum. Grow up. If you can't help the OP with his question stay off the thread and let people that can help answer his question speak without heckling.
Keith,
I do my best to ignore the pessimists and concentrate on those with positive or constructive criticism. I have used Siever's Benchwork on two separate occasions and love the stuff. I've also just built two turnouts using Fast Tracks and couldn't be more pleased---there is also a wealth of valuable information on the Fast Tracks website that has proven to be very interesting and informative.
There is no correct or right way of constructing a layout, there are many facets to our hobby and I do the best I can with the skill set developed over the years. I happen to particularly enjoy scratch building structures and rolling stock and spend most of my hobby time with these projects while using the convenience of pre-built benchwork and the templates offered by Fast Tracks. Just do what you enjoy and who cares if someone else doesn't approve?