Gidday, As I previously wrote the amount of views this site has had (now just over 1300) would suggest that it has been a successful venture.
I also mentioned my impression regarding "Lurkers". More often than not I too am a "Lurker". There are threads and "posters" whose work and/or opinions I have come to value even if the thread is not of obvious or immediate value to my own ventures. I don't comment (1) because others have already done so, (2) too much vacuous praise or comments would, in my opinion, just "bog down" the forums making them worthless and an unpleasant place to visit.
Where I personally could get ticked off, and I know others do, is when a post is created, a question asked, answered by various contributors to the best of their knowledge, and then never acknowledged by the OP.
"The Philosophical Bit According To The Bear". The way I look at it is while it is nice to get praise from your peers for your efforts, I've learnt over the years to take personal satisfaction, only if I deserve it, from my actions. I worked for an outfit for several years where the staff on the floor took pride in the fact that we turned out quality work In spite of management!
Bottom line is that the only person to answer your question is yourself. Did you get satisfaction from doing it? Did you learn anything new? Did you get to "perfect" a technique that you've been working on? Has anyone made a favourable comment?
Its up to you but I would be disappointed if we do not get to see the trestle "permanently" in and the surrounding scenery "finished".
Cheers,the Bear.
"One difference between pessimists and optimists is that while pessimists are more often right, optimists have far more fun."
Thanks "Jabear"!
As I see the "model building" atmosphere in today's model railroading, I have to wonder if doing build threads has merit?
NP 2626 "Northern Pacific, really terrific"
Northern Pacific Railway Historical Association: http://www.nprha.org/
Gidday, Looking at the amount of views you've had I'd suggest that you've created a successful thread and if in the future someone "Searches Our Community" regarding trestle bridges YOUR information will be there. This is the first forum that I've been involved in and not for that long but my impression there are lots of "Lurkers" who don't say anything which in its self isn't necessarily a bad thing.
For my self while I have no intention of building a trestle , the ability, as I mentioned in another thread, to be able to "drop in" from 8000 miles away and to observe your progress, not only is great but gives me inspiration in my humble endeavours.
Keep up the good work and Have Fun.
Cheers, the Bear.
I've removed this post I felt it lacked pertinence to the topic.
Also, anyone interested in taking on building a trestle, bridge; or basically any type of model building project, and would like to communicate personally, I am here to help and would love to help you with your project.
The following photo shows the track cleaning train buffing the railheads on the bridge. My intentions were to show and talk about the process of scratch building a model trestle. My intentions were also to promote the building of models for your railroad. My interests in this hobby and my enjoyment of it stems from my deep interest and fascination with building models. I know that many people in the hobby today have no interest in this aspect. I enjoy it immensely and honestly, the hobby would not hold my interest, if I had to buy everything ready made. I'd find that pretty boring! No reflection on those who want to buy ready made stuff, that is just not where my interests lay.
My hopes are that some people will come away from reading this thread thinking: "Maybe I can do that and give it a try"! Good luck and best wishes.
Mark DeSchane
I've installed the trestle back in the scene (must be a winter scene)!
Great job, what beautifull deep gultch you have created. I can't wait to see it with the trestle bridge in place.
Thanks for sharing,
George
Here is a photo of the completed plaster/sculptamolded deep gultch area without the trestle installed.
The photo below shows some of the rock carvings and in particular the rock Spires I made to see if I could do this well enough that I would be pleased with the results. Although the white makes things sort of blend together, I think you can see how it turned out.
In the above photo, it's somewhat difficult to distinguish from the rest of the cardboard strips; but, just off of the right side approach to the bridge, is a 3/8th inch diameter dowel sticking up through the lattes work, with a cardboard strip glued over it. This is going to be a rock spire sticking up from the gulch. This will be a scenic challenge for me, to see if I can get this detail to look right and natural.Because the Woodland Scenics plaster cloth I use for hardshell is placed on the cardboard lattes work wet, when gluing the lattes work together use any type of glue that is water resistant. In my case, I'm using Zap-A-Gap as it's what I have on hand. After the hardshell has set, I use Sculptamold as an adhesive for my rock castings and to "flesh-out" the rest of the scenic surface. I also carve the Sculptamold into stratified rock surfaces, while this material is still setting up. It works wonderfully for this as Sculptamold takes a while to set up and works well, even when about ready to set, so you have a good-long-working time with it.
Again, the five footings that will support the trestle were made from pine, shapped to look like concrete footings and painted with concrete colored paint and weathered. I make these so they are glued to the support framing and directly support each bent of the trestle. I want them so they just touch the bents, without causing upward pressure on the trestle. I've considering that maybe I should put a coat of something (paint/varnish) on the framing to stabilize it. My basement gets fairly humid in the summers and this might be a good idea.
The photo below shows some of the cardboard lattus work that will support the Woodland Scenics plaster cloth that will make up the hardshell.
I guess if I didn't look at the Views counter, I'd think I was wasting my time and no one is paying any attention! However, the Views counter is showing that over the last few days, nearly 100 people per day are looking at this thread. Must be people ARE interested, just dont have anything to add!
Still I know this group of people! Not having much to say is not who we are!
The photo below shows all of the footings installed. It also shows how I made the other four footings height adjustable; so, I could easily get the top of the footings to just meet the bottom of the trestle bents. Also in the photo, I have attached cardboard frames so I will have a place to attache my cardboard lattus scenery support. work.
Maybe, someone wanting to build a trestle for their layout will get some ideas here and if I can express one opinion, it is that building my trestle was fun and far easier then it might look.An interesting fact: A stretch of mainline track from Hawley MN, to Fargo N.D that was on the Northern Pacific was a trestle in the beginning. This trestle was very long (almost 6 miles). Fargo is on the bottom of a prehistoric lake (Lake Agassiz) To the west of Hawley was the eastern shore of this lake and there are several shore lines between the farthest east shore and the lake bottom. The trestle mentioned, eased the grade down to Fargo and the grade up from the lake bottom. The N.P. undertook a colossal job of filling in this trestle with earth and what is seen today is one of the longest fills I have ever seen. Considering the methods used back when this would have been done, what was done can only be described as amazing! Also, they found that the weight of the fill actually sank into the ground, where the fill crossed some fairly swampy areas. If you look at the area about 2 miles east of Glyndon MN on Google Earth, you can see places where the displaced ground caused waves to the sides of the fill. These are actual humps in the ground, visible from Highway 10! This grade is on the BNSF mainline from Minneapolis/St. Paul to Fargo Northe Dakota.,
The above photo shows one of the concrete footings I made to support the trestle. I expected to need to shim this part up to meet the base of tallest bent of the trestle. As it turned out, all I needed to do was sand a bit off the bottom of this wood block to get a perfect fit. These concrete footings are made from pieces of pine, sanded to shape and painted with concrete paint. I carved a few cracks in the concrete and used my diluted black acrylic stain, to weather them a bit . This one footing shown also has two short dowels glued to it's top, that trap the center piling of the bent, to secure the trestle at it's bottom, adding stability to the bridge.
Installing the trestle was a matter of framing it in so it would be supported from beneth. The following photo shows the preliminary framing I installed to do this.
Staining the edges of the girts and adding the diagonals:
I forgot to mention that all the girt and Diagonal material was pre-stained as a sheet, previous to being glued to the structure. Had I to do this trestle over, that is how I would have done all of the lumber for the bridge. So, I stained the sheet of balsa I was going to cut them from. After making strips for the girts and diagonals, I still needed to stain the the edges where I had cut the strips from. As it turned out, I used strips 1/16th X 3/16ths as the Sills and diagonals and 1/16th X 1/8th as the sway bracing and girts. These dimensions work out to roughly 6" X 9" and 6" X 12" in HO scale. Before adding the diagonals, I stained the edges of the girts and again there may be glue keeping the stain from coloring the girts in some places. These are the places I touched up with black and/or Burnt Sienna and again I dry brushed some light gray in vertical strokes starting at the top, to weather the girts. It is easiest to lay the trestle on its' side to do the dry brushing and easier to keep track of which way is up.Once I was satisfied with the staining and weathering of the girts, it was time to add the diagonals. By now, you should be able to understand the procedure. The diagonals will overlap each other. The first ones on, go from one upper corner to the lower corner of the same story on the next bent. Do all going one way, on one side of the trestle, flip the trestle over and do it the same way on that side. Then do the second diagonal by weaving it under the first. This gives you some clamping pressure when gluing in the second diagonal. There are many ways of doing diagonals! Some trestles even omit them. If you have an even amount of bents, you can omit diagonals on the second and third, forth and fifth bent, etc... You can have only one diagonal, instead of two, making a zig zag pattern on all the bents. On mine, I had the diagonals meet on the center bent using a mitered joint. Once you have the diagonals on, finish staining the edges, touch up where needed with black; or, Burnt Sienna and weather with dry brushing, again going vertically, oriented with the bents. Now you're at the same place I'm at, which is fitting the trestle to the layout. This is the end of the "Building the Trestle" part of this thread. I will continue with the installation of the the trestle on the layout.
Sorry about the focus on the above photo; but, it does show the Roof Brown grayish washed look I was after for the ties on the bridge track.
(Would it be better if I resized my photos? They seem large and at times it is difficult to insert text below the photos?)
Installing the bents:
I started by gluing the middle bent on, in the middle of the bridge deck, that way I can use my combination square to make sure the bents are 90 degrees to the bridge deck. Part of sketching out the trestle was making decisions about how many bents I would use, what the distance between each bent would be, deciding how tall each bent would be and making sure these dimensions are what I built the various parts to. So, the underside of the bridge deck had lines drawn at the transverse centerline of each bent. This gave me any angle that was needed for positioning the bents on the curved portion of the trestle and the proper spacing to use between the bents. The first bent I glued down was the center/tallest one. Again, using carpenters glue and my combination square, I put some glue across the top sills of the bent and assembling the trestle upside down, I used my square and a spring clothes pin to clamp this bent in position. I then let this bent's glue dry for a couple hours. Then, working outwards from this center bent, I glued the next bent in place, checking that it is square to the bridge track and that it aligns with the centerling of the previously installed bent (from the side of the trestle and down the centerline of the track). Then I waited a couple more hours for this ones glue to set. Once this took place, I glued around 6-8 of the girts in place between the two bents, to secure the two bents and give them some stability. Because the trestle is built upside down, the girts go underneath the sills and inside the four outer pilings. In this instance, I used gap filling CA, as I wanted the girts to be held in their locations and the glue to dry quickly. When I've read articles on building trestles in the book I have and in the magazines, I've seen the folks describe the process of building their trestles from the ground up. To have the trestle work out right, doing it this way, will require that every bent be precisely the correct length, otherwise there will be a gap between the bent and bridge deck, or one bent will invariably be slightly taller then needed, making for a bunch of fitting to get everything to work out right. For real railroads, this method is really the only way to get the job done. For models, because we can lift the whole trestle in and out of it's locations as many times as it takes to get it right, I think building them upside down make more sense. However, there's always more than one way to skin a cat! So if you have an idea that works and an interesting in sharing, I would like to hear and see it described!
Staining/Weathering:
At this point all five of my bents have been built, the track laid on the bridge deck and I'm almost ready to start assembling the bents to the bridge deck. However, it will be easier to stain the bents, bridge deck and paint the track previous to actually assembling anything. So, I used Floquil's Roof Brown to spray paint the ties and rails, cleaning off the running rails just after spraying on the roof brown as it's easier to clean off while still wet. Then I use a small container to mix up a batch of my staining mixture. I use Ceramicoat's Acrylic paints for most of my staining, weathering and etc. I poured a teaspoon or so of black with a small amount of Burnt Sienna into a container (the container is an empty-used bottle of Ceramicoat paint. To this mixture, I add about two thirds of its' volume of water. I tried this on one of the bents and was satisfied, so I stained the bents and bottom of the bridge deck. What I want is a fairly dark stain that brings out the grain of the wood and will turn sort of gray when dry; but, with some blotchiness to the coverage. Invariably there will be white spots where the glue keeps the stain from staining the wood. I don't worry about this, as later when the stain has dried I will go back over these white places on the structure with straight black; or, Burnt Sienna to cover the white splotches. When satisfied with how things look, I apply some dry brushing of light gray or white. If you like the brown, by all means make yours more brown!I forgot to mention that all my sills, sway bracing, girts and diagonals are made from 1/16th balsa wood which takes these stains very nicely and gets real grainy.Most people seem to stain their trestles with some type of brown stain. Creosoted timbers do look brownish for the first few years they are out in the weather. Soon, however, I've seen that they turn gray and blotchy with black areas where the creosote was heavy. So I see timber trestles as being gray from weathering and this is the look I am after.
I was surprised at how much work was involved in assembling the Micro Engineering bridgetrack, especially since I followed their instruction's recommendations as far as what adhesive to use. Then finding that the bond was week using this method and much of this work had to be redone!I believe using wood ties and spiking the rail down to the ties would have been a faster method to build the bridge track! However,the M.E. track does look very nice. Hand laying would have eliminated another head scratcher, transitioning from Code 100 to the code 83 on the bridge, as I would have used Code 100.
In thinking about the length of time this project has taken me, I'm an R/C modeler, also. Building a model airplane is always a winter long project, if building from a kit; or, plans. So, this was a short-little project from my perspective and really a bunch of fun!
At the top of my trestle, I wanted direct support under the rails for the intermeadiate (2 & 4) pilings, the center one (3) should be "on Center" and the outer two (1 & 5) were equally spaced out, as the intermendiates were from the center one. Having a factory edge on the jig board allows the use of a square to make the bents plumb and square. I liked the looks of the spread; or, "batter" with the base of the pilings spread apart 40 feet for the tallest bent. Pilings 2 & 4 were simply equally divided. I used one of the outer pilings (which were the longest) to locate and glue down the ties that jig the pilings in place. Once all the ties were glued down, bent construction could begin.
Enough Philosophy, let's build some Bents:
I may not describe the names of the components on a trestle correctly. However in my terminology: I call the uprights that support the track the "Pilings". The cross pieces that tie the pilings together, I call "Sills" and the diagonal bracing that run from one sill to the next, I call "sway bracing". These parts together as an assembly make up the "Bents". On my jig, I wanted to know the length of each of the bents, so I would build them to the correct length. So, I laid each individual piling in its' location on the jig and then cut it to length. It's important to have a cap on the jig that is square to the center piling, that will stop each piling at the top of the bent. Once all the pilings are cut to the correct length. it's time to place the sills in their position. The book I mentioned, states that the sills should be no farther then 12' 6" apart. So, I also marked my jig so the sills could be positioned where they were supposed to be. I extended the sills about 1 scale foot beyond the outer pilings. I used Carpenter's Glue to glue all of the trestle together. I applied the glue with a small balsa stick, so I had just enough glue, put the sill in position and weighted them down with small weights to make sure I got a good bond. After the sills had dried, I put the sway bracing on using the same gluing technique and weighting them down and let them dry. When I knew the glue had dried, I popped the bent out of the jig and glued the sills on the back side and after that, glued the sway bracing onto the back side. Note that the sway bracing goes on the exact same way it did on the first side, this provide an X cross brace for each story.Repeat this process for as many bents as you’re going to need.
Although the above photo shows the bents finished, painted and mounted to the bridge deck, it does show the general idea.
Tools needed:Sorry this really should have been at the beginning of this thread; but, because the amount of tools needed is really minimal, the following is what I used on this project.
Obviously you will need some type of hobby knife. I like Elmer's Carpenter Glue and Zap-A-Gap for adhesives. You'll need a hobby saw, like a Zona; or, Xacto. I actually use a Dove Tail Saw and love mine. I ordered it through my local Ace Hardware. Straight edges at least 2-3 feet in length. A balsa stripper if you want. I use my Xacto knife and straight edge, although I do have a stripper. You could use a N.W. Short lines Chopper, if you have one. Paint brushes and paint and that's about it!
Getting Started:
As I stated in the beginning, the trestle has already been built. In fact the frame for the gulch, cardboard lattes, plaster cloth and rock faces are now done in Deep Gulch, I need to color the rock faces and add scenic details such as talus, and plant life and this section of my layout will be done. So, I'm looking back wards, when discussing this project.
I actually started building the trestle back in early January of this year. So, it has taken me from early January until now, the beginning of April to get to where I am. I maybe work on the project 3-6 hours per week. I don't look at these types of projects as something I absolutely need to get done! I look at them as something I am going to enjoy taking my time doing! This attitude maybe sets me apart from many model railroaders of today. I enjoy all the aspects of building my model railroad and it is not something that must get accomplished! There is no time-clock! I've been punching time clocks for 44 years. Down in the basement working on projects, is me time, the heart rate slows down, the problems of the day gain clarity and all seems right with the world, for the few hours I do this stuff.
I'm going to be 62 next week, I've been building models since I was 5 years old. I do this for the above reasons mostly to enjoy myself!
I certainly appreciate the compliments! The reason I thought I'd talk about talking about building this bridge is to show YOU that this type of a project is within most people's capablities! It is fun to do and very rewarding!
Building the trestle bent jig: I determined how tall the tallest bent was going to be (100 feet) and made sure my jig could accommodate that bent. The book I previously mentioned, names the parts of the trestle, and talks about the geometry of building these types of bridges. You could build one absolutely correctly and to absolute scale if you desire. I used the old, "That looks about right" as far as the story height goes and "batter"; or, spread of the trestle pilings.
The picture below shows the jig I built from scrap lumber and Kappler ties. If you don't have Kappler (or, other mfger) ties and don't see where you can make good use of them for other projects, use other strip wood; or, even balsa strips.
Although I used a chunk of Maple drawer side as the jig base (its was laying around waiting for a project), any flat board or chunk of plywood will do. To determine the length of your bents and how many you will need, I made a quick and dirty scale drawing of the bridgedeck. I calculated the length of the span being supported by the bents and via suggestions in the book mentioned above about the distances between the trestle bents, I determined that I was going to need 5 bents. Since the "Deep Gultch Trestle" was all about drama, I picked 100 scale feet as the maximum length of my tallest bent. The other 4 bents would simply be less than 100 scale feet; but, more; or less than a story, so that the geometry of each bent would look right (in other words, I wouldn't have a bent length end where a sill should be. The horizontal lines on the jig denote where the sills will be placed and those with verticle arrows pointing, down is where each Bent length ends.
The through Plate Girder bridge is built from Atlas girders and the center portion from another Atlas truss bridge, which may not be available anymore. The Micro Engineering bridgetrack is glued atop the old Atlas bridge section.Once the bridge deck was done, it was time to build the trestle bents. The first thing I did was build a jig that all five of the bents would be built on. The photo below shows this jig, built on a chunk of maple I had laying around. The small wood guides are Kappler Ties left over from the last trestle I built. I used Kalmbach's Book: How to build Bridges and Trestles to get an idea for the right proportions and where things should go. The bents were built from 1/8th inch dowels and 1/16th thick balsa. Trestles I've seen here in Minnesota were mostly built from round pilings and not square timbers; so, that's why I used dowels. The book describes how the horizontal sills at story height and sway bracing all fit together.
And, here are the East end abutments. The main abutment is the same as the other side, just shortened to fit between the upper and lower tracks. Then there is another abutment to support the timber bent at the west end of the through girder section of the trestle. All of these abutment s are made by AIM Products, painted and weathered and secured in postion with buildups and contact cement.
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Here is a photo of the East abutment of the bridge. This is an AIM Field Stone plaster casting, modefide slightly to allow for the bridge deck stringers.
Now the photos are back, that's good! Must have been some technical difficulties.
Gidday, "A picture is worth a thousand words". Don' t know how many photos you posted but the two I'm looking at are ok. and thanks for posting them. Trestle looks good as well.
Cheers, The Bear.