6x12 Track Plans

[SMassey]

OK I guess this thread is not locked... I thought it was.  Anyway I posted a couple of ideas on your other thread you may want to take a look at.  It will give you some ideas about benchwork (what I posted is very strudy and lightweight)  and I linked a track plan that can be used as point to point and continueous loop.

 

I dont know what you are talking about with the copyright stuff...  The linky is still there and it works too.  Fair use applies here as you know.  You are not claiming ownership or using it for comercial use.  You are also not gaining profit from said track plan so you have done nothing wrong.

 

Massey

[richhotrain]

Sounds like you are making progress with your train room.

Good luck with your blog.

Rich 

[dbwv69]

Thank you for the suggestions and ideas. They are very helpful and I appreciate them all, even the constructive criticism.

I'm just suffering from a creative block but it will eventually pass, it always does. In the mean time, I'm going to continue working on the train room while waiting for inspirational lightning to strike. Speaking of the train room, I made a lot of progress last night and using the sledge hammer was a great way to work off some frustration but now I have to clean up the rather sizeable mess I made.

In addition, I've decided to create a blog (Wordpress, Blogger, or ???) or a website, as it will enable me to keep everything in one location, under my control, without the need to post to multiple forums, which has become rather tedious and repetitive. I take this project very seriously and intend to see it through to the end, whatever end that may ultimately be. When the mood strikes, I can be a rather prolific writer/creator so it seems like the best move to make. I can post whatever I like, whenever I like, all completely uncensored.

Don't get me wrong, I will continue to post to various forums but it will mostly responding to threads, as opposed to creating threads of my own.

BTW: I noticed that the copyright police came to town and deleted the link to the track plan I posted. As a result, I've decided to be more cautious about what I post. I guess they never heard of fair use doctrine. And since the whole copyright issue has arisen.. Legally, I feel it's necessary to remind Kalmbach that my images are copyrighted by me.

[BroadwayLion]

LION says: "Lay tracks first... Change them later!"

It sounds flipant or counter productive, but it is the way that I have built my railroads.

 

My present railroad started in concept as a two level commuter railroad, with a third lower level for staging. Since then inexpensive plastic subway cars became available and the railroad began to morph.

One of the first things was the heavy grades that a pair of locomotives pulling a nine car train could mount with ease were impossible for a six car subway train with only one motor car: I had to pull ot some track and install not one but three helices.

But now with no need for a lower level staging area, I am pulling all of that out again, and have built a new four track helix and the lowest level will have a four track main line: but this is ok, I *like* laying track and wiring layouts!

Bottom line is: ITS RUNNING! *and* I am having fun with it.

[richhotrain]

dbwv69

Paulus Jas:

showing a little bit more of what you are really thinking would be appreciated; life is not just taking.

Paul

 

No, life isn't just about taking but to tell you the truth, I don't know what to think right now.

You say that you don't know what to think right now.  Why not?   You asked for ideas and track plans, and you got them.  Why not start drawing up some ideas or, better yet, start laying track on the floor if that's what it takes.  This seems to be a recurring theme in all of your threads - - paralysis by analysis.

Right now, I have a large layout in my basement, my fourth layout.  I love it.  But, I am thinking of change.  On my dining room table, I have grid paper spread out all over the place as I draw and redraw possible track plans and structure placements.

I think that we all agree that you need to get inspired.  So, get inspired!  Start drawing.  Start laying track.

Rich

[steinjr]

 A reasonably simple thing to do would be to buy (or scrounge) 4 hollow core doors - say each @32"x80" or 36" x 80", if that is a convenient size. Would give you a layout that is 13' 4" long and 5' 4" wide or 13' 4" long and 6 feet wide. 

 Make a simple section frame with legs that can be put under it - or four sets of legs - one for each door, locking the HCDs together using snaps along the outer edges - the door is rigid enough on it's own for layout framework - you just need to get it up to a convenient height.

 Btw - I also had drawn up a quick concept sketch like Paul's - it worked out pretty much in the same way as his sketch:

 

 Anyways - now it is time for our new friend to tyhink about what he likes and don't like about these ideas, what he would replace and whether he would prefer to take things in other directions.

 We know that you are excellent at making drawings and sketches - show us some scenes - some ideas, some likes and dislikes :-)

Smile,
Stein

 

 

[Anonymous]

Track planning can be a rewarding, but also a cumbersome task, especially when you get stuck in a analysis-paralysis rut.

You are a lucky guy! You have Paul and Stein helping you - both are adept track planners and really helpful people.

Paul´s design is a good starter - avery well thought of plan. Why don´t you take that as a basis and get started? Changes will come along construction and this is a good place to discuss them.

Have fun!

[SMassey]

OK looks like we are seeing some progress here.   So we are going for basicaly the layout you posted the pic of earlier and then make that a loop to give the continous running.  This is simple really if you just bend the layout around and link one end to the other.  You may have to add a switch or 2 to make it all work right but I can see it very doable with your space requirements.  The next thing to ask is are you going to make it a doughnut or island.  It appears that you can do either and pull it off nice.

 

Massey

[dbwv69]

Paulus Jas

showing a little bit more of what you are really thinking would be appreciated; life is not just taking.

Paul

No, life isn't just about taking but to tell you the truth, I don't know what to think right now.

[Paulus Jas]

showing a little bit more of what you are really thinking would be appreciated; life is not just taking.

Paul

[dbwv69]

Paulus Jas

hi

drawn with 24" radii and #6 switches.

But,............... i would build the try-out on rather shallow shelves, 18" or 24" wide max. So it will be a lot easier to incorporate these sections into a later grand design.

Good luck and keep smiling

Paul

Thanks for creating the plan.

[Paulus Jas]

hi

drawn with 24" radii and #6 switches.

But,............... i would build the try-out on rather shallow shelves, 18" or 24" wide max. So it will be a lot easier to incorporate these sections into a later grand design.

Good luck and keep smiling

Paul

[richhotrain]

dbwv69

My plan is for a 6'x12' layout. Accessibility has already been tested using a full scale mockup and no problems were noted that could not be easily mitigated.

I've done most, if not all, of what you suggest but it still isn't quite "right". Specifically, I'd like to include some or all of the following elements for a continuous loop mainline (as previously mentioned).

Miscellaneous Scenes:
1. Bridge(s)
2. Tunnel
3. Company store(s)
4. Company homes

Industry Scenes:
1. Freight terminal
2. Coal Mine w/truck dump

I agree with you that in a walkaround layout, if you can access all four sides, then a 6' x 12' surface should be reachable, particularly if the deepest interior points contain no track or at least contain no turnouts or sharp curves.

You implied that you have already scoped out the various elements of your contemplated layout.  Even a crude drawing would help us to help you with the Miscellaneous Scenes and the Industry Scenes.  Any way you can supply that in a simple diagram showing track configuration and structure placement.  Even if you are not entirely happy with it, it will help us visualize your thoughts on this contemplated layout.

Rich

[steinjr]

dbwv69

 

steinjr:

 Which parts of this can you not work into a plan based on wrapping the leftmost 20 feet or so of the Coal Fork extension around a 5 x 12 foot (or 6 x 12 foot) table with a vertical backboard down the spine of the table?

 

That is yet to be determined.

 Seems quite easy to me.The plan already have company houses, company store and a freight terminal at Coal Fork.

 Straighten/curve lightly mine tracks at Low Gap up instead of down. Put the connection between the left end of Low Gap and Coal Fork in a tunnel - gives you one tunnel entrance in each scene.

 Replace the coal loader with truck loading or add a truck loading to the foreground or background on the Low Gap scene  - you will have between 6 and 12" of extra depth if you go 5 or 6 feet of depth totally and split it into two scenes each 12 x 2 1/2 feet or 12 x 3 feet, compared to the 2 foot depth of Tony's design.

  Bridge section will be other connecting curve between Low Gap and Coal Junction - if you go to 6 feet of width, you have room for a straight part with a bridge without getting an excessively sharp radius curve here.

 So let me repeat the question - what is it that makes it so dang hard to just wrap these two scenes (or something similar to or adapted from these two scenes) around the outside of a 6 x 12 foot table?

 Smile,
 Stein

 

[dbwv69]

steinjr

 Which parts of this can you not work into a plan based on wrapping the leftmost 20 feet or so of the Coal Fork extension around a 5 x 12 foot (or 6 x 12 foot) table with a vertical backboard down the spine of the table?

That is yet to be determined.

steinjr

Byw - I wasn't implying that you were committing copyright infraction with that picture. I was telling you that you can describe something you like, even if you cannot post a picture of the original plan.

Describing it didn't seem to work so I thought a picture might do the trick. Like they say, a picture speaks a thousand words.

[steinjr]

dbwv69

steinjr:

What elements of the Tony Koester Coal Fork Extension plan above is it that you want like to incorporate in a  6 x 12 (or possibly 5 x 12, to make reaching into the layout easier) layout? 

My plan is for a 6'x12' layout. Accessibility has already been tested using a full scale mockup and no problems were noted that could not be easily mitigated.

I've done most, if not all, of what you suggest but it still isn't quite "right". Specifically, I'd like to include some or all of the following elements for a continuous loop mainline (as previously mentioned).

Miscellaneous Scenes:
1. Bridge(s)
2. Tunnel
3. Company store(s)
4. Company homes

Industry Scenes:
1. Freight terminal
2. Coal Mine w/truck dump

 Which parts of this can you not work into a plan based on wrapping the leftmost 20 feet or so of the Coal Fork extension around a 5 x 12 foot (or 6 x 12 foot) table with a vertical backboard down the spine of the table?

 Byw - I wasn't implying that you were committing copyright infraction with that picture. I was telling you that you can describe something you like, even if you cannot post a picture of the original plan.

 Smile,
 Stein

 

[dbwv69]

steinjr

What elements of the Tony Koester Coal Fork Extension plan above is it that you want like to incorporate in a  6 x 12 (or possibly 5 x 12, to make reaching into the layout easier) layout? 

My plan is for a 6'x12' layout. Accessibility has already been tested using a full scale mockup and no problems were noted that could not be easily mitigated.

I've done most, if not all, of what you suggest but it still isn't quite "right". Specifically, I'd like to include some or all of the following elements for a continuous loop mainline (as previously mentioned).

Miscellaneous Scenes:
1. Bridge(s)
2. Tunnel
3. Company store(s)
4. Company homes

Industry Scenes:
1. Freight terminal
2. Coal Mine w/truck dump

[dbwv69]

steinjr

P.S: Btw - when describing what you like about a published plan, you do not have to post a photo of the original plan and violate copyright - you can simply describe it - in the case above e.g. as "I really like the junction called Coal Fork on Tony Koester's Coal Fork Extension layout plan from Model Railroader no such-and-such".

I am working on a response to the rest of your post but in the mean time...

My understanding is that posting a link to an image is not a violation of copyright but I defer to the judgement of the moderators on that one. The track plan is freely available (Non MR+) on the Track Plan Database so I saw no harm in posting a link to it.

Otherwise, I tried doing exactly as you suggest many times in other posts and it didn't seem to do any good. People either didn't see it or ignored it but I have no way of knowing for sure.

This quote (or something to that effect) is what I said:

"Inspiration:
The 6 part series, in the June to November 1998 issues of Model Railroader, about the Coal Fork extension of the Allegheny Midland by Tony Koester."

[steinjr]

dbwv69

Here is a link to the image at the The Allegheny Midland Historical Society, who does have permission to display the image according to their website. The version I am playing with has a peninsula (not shown here) that was shown as a caption in the original MRR issue.

(Image deleted for copyright violation)

And here it is as shown in the Track Plan Database. For some strange reason it actually let me view this plan without encountering the dreaded MR+ (Subscriber Only Content) wall, which isn't always the case. Curiously, the version with the peninsula is absent from the Track Plan Database.

http://mrr.trains.com/How%20To/Track%20Plan%20Database/2010/10/Allegheny%20Midland.aspx

BTW: Tony Koester has came closer to capturing the "spirit" of the Appalachian Coal fields in a model railroad than anyone I have ever seen. IMHO

 Great, now we are getting somewhere. We are actually starting to discussing what features you would like to have in a layout.

 What elements of the Tony Koester Coal Fork Extension plan above is it that you want like to incorporate in a  6 x 12 (or possibly 5 x 12, to make reaching into the layout easier) layout?

  For instance, on that drawing you have the comment grid is 12' - counting squares the Low Gap mine area at the left is about 2 feet x 10 feet long - bit it can of course be made longer or shorter as needed.

  The distance from the left end of Low Gap to just to the right of Coal Fork is another 10-12 feet.

 So you could come up wth a track plan by drawing Low Gap on one scene on one side of the table, wrap around the end curve to Coal Fork on the other side, and then have a connection between the Otter Creek Sub at Low Gap and the mainline (heavy line) at Coal Fork on the other end of both scenes for continuous running.

 You would maybe have to make some tracks a little shorter, but that is not a huge modification, and not model the coal mines and yards at Coal Fork due to lack of space. Of course - if you have loads of space, you could always just take that track to the edge of the layout and later make an extension (or a cassette or something) representing the Harper Run Subdivision.

 Smile,
 Stein

 P.S: Btw - when describing what you like about a published plan, you do not have to post a photo of the original plan and violate copyright - you can simply describe it - in the case above e.g. as "I really like the junction called Coal Fork on Tony Koester's Coal Fork Extension layout plan from Model Railroader no such-and-such".

 

[dbwv69]

I found this track plan to be inspirational.

http://mrr.trains.com/How%20To/Track%20Plan%20Database/2010/10/Allegheny%20Midland.aspx

[dbwv69]

richhotrain

Well, since you can't seem to figure out how to become a subscriber, I will post the layout for you.

(Image deleted for copyright violation)

I was a subscriber to MRR for many years (prior to the existence of this forum) but found that most of the issues didn't really have much that was of interest to me. Not that the issues weren't good, because they were, only that my interests are very specific. As a cost and space saving measure, I've since opted to buy them on an issue by issue basis if they appear to have something that is of interest to me.

And thank you for posting the track plan, it's not exactly what I'm looking for but it does help to give me a good sense of perspective, even though it doesn't have a grid.

[Doughless]

dbwv69

 

Doughless:

 

After following this thread, I'm a bit confused as to what you want.  It seems like you want to find a database of only 6x12 track plans, with the idea that you can adjust any themed plan of that size to an Appalachian theme.

Or, by recall from the minds of forum members' hobby travels, have them post 6x12 plans that they remember to have seen.  

Both would seem to be tough requests, IMO

I think you may have better luck by including 4x8, 5x9, and any plan smaller than 6x12 and expanding it. If you are confident in your ability to adjust any plan to an Appalachian theme, nothing says you can't, then you shouldn't have much problem expanding a smaller plan to fill a 6x12.  How about starting with the smaller plans that have an Appalachian theme?

I think if you googled small track plans, there s/b various data bases to research.

 

 

I'm interested in seeing any track plans that can easily be made to fit into a 6'x12' footprint and had just assumed that people would suggest anything they felt was appropriate. Adjusting a plan to fit an Appalachian theme shouldn't be too difficult but obviously, it depends on the plan.

Google is my primary method of research and I've tried just about every combination of phrases I can think of but wasn't coming up with much that I liked so I thought it wouldn't hurt to ask to see track plans, just to cover all the bases.

Ah.  I see.  there really aren't any 6x12 plans that come to mind.

Maybe a better way to ask the question of members would be:

What is you favorite 4x8, or 5x9 track plan?  (Since those are more popular sizes than 6x12)

Many experienced members could give you some names of a couple of trackplans they like and where they have seen them.  Perhaps you would get lucky and be supplied with a few that would have inspirational elements that you could incorporate into a larger space.

[dbwv69]

richhotrain

Any subscriber to MRR can access the track plan database for free.

And one becomes a subscriber how? BTW: That's a rhetorical question.

[Doughless]

dbwv69

 

Doughless:

 

After following this thread, I'm a bit confused as to what you want.  It seems like you want to find a database of only 6x12 track plans, with the idea that you can adjust any themed plan of that size to an Appalachian theme.

Or, by recall from the minds of forum members' hobby travels, have them post 6x12 plans that they remember to have seen.  

Both would seem to be tough requests, IMO

I think you may have better luck by including 4x8, 5x9, and any plan smaller than 6x12 and expanding it. If you are confident in your ability to adjust any plan to an Appalachian theme, nothing says you can't, then you shouldn't have much problem expanding a smaller plan to fill a 6x12.  How about starting with the smaller plans that have an Appalachian theme?

I think if you googled small track plans, there s/b various data bases to research.

 

 

I'm interested in seeing any track plans that can easily be made to fit into a 6'x12' footprint and had just assumed that people would suggest anything they felt was appropriate. Adjusting a plan to fit an Appalachian theme shouldn't be too difficult but obviously, it depends on the plan.

Google is my primary method of research and I've tried just about every combination of phrases I can think of but wasn't coming up with much that I liked so I thought it wouldn't hurt to ask to see track plans, just to cover all the bases.

Ah.  I see.  there really aren't any 6x12 plans that come to mind.

Maybe a better way to ask the question of members would be:

What is you favorite 4x8, or 5x9 track plan?  (Since those are more popular sizes than 6x12)

Many experienced members could give you some names of a couple of trackplans they like and where they have seen them.  Perhaps you would get lucky and be supplied with a few that would have inspirational elements that you could incorporate into a larger space.

[richhotrain]

Any subscriber to MRR can access the track plan database for free.

Here is the perfect plan for you:

http://mrr.trains.com/How%20To/Track%20Plan%20Database/2008/11/Milwaukee%20Roads%20Beer%20Line.aspx

[dbwv69]

jeffrey-wimberly

You may have to take parts from 2 or more track plans and adapt them to your needs. My layout is 10 feet long on one side with a 3.5 foot loop, goes around in a 'U' shape and is 6.5 feet on the other side with another 3.5 foot loop. There are several spurs thrown in also. Don't give up.

Taking parts from multiple plans or using them for inspiration, was exactly what I have in mind.

I was thinking of having a mine on one side with a town and a small industry or two on the other side. Perhaps having them divided on an angle with a tunnel on one end and a bridge scene on the other end. If I could somehow squeeze a hidden staging track under the scenery, it would fit the theme perfectly.

Come to think of it, I've been visualizing it in quadrants. Left, right, top, and bottom, with each quadrant having it's own basic scenic elements.

Give up? Naaa, I'm just getting started. LOL

 

 

[dbwv69]

richhotrain

the Kalmbach track database is free

Oh really? And I suppose "MR+" (Suscriber Only Content)  on most of the track plans means nothing. The last time I checked, that means you gotta pay $$$ to see them.

[jeffrey-wimberly]

You may have to take parts from 2 or more track plans and adapt them to your needs. My layout is 10 feet long on one side with a 3.5 foot loop, goes around in a 'U' shape and is 6.5 feet on the other side with another 3.5 foot loop. There are several spurs thrown in also. Don't give up.

[dbwv69]

Ok, I can clearly see that this thread is going nowhere fast. I should have known better. Oh well, live and learn.