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6x12 Track Plans

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6x12 Track Plans
Posted by dbwv69 on Thursday, September 01, 2011 9:07 AM

I'm looking for 6'x12' (or similar sizes) HO scale track plans of any type, to be used as inspiration for new ideas.

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Posted by Sir Madog on Thursday, September 01, 2011 10:49 AM

That´s a request not easy to fulfill.

6´by 12´ is a foot print, which is too large for the classic island type layout sitting in a corner of a room - your arms are just not long enough to reach into all corners of it, and too small for a around-the- wall layout.

steinjr is working on a 6´6" by 11´6" layout, IIRC, but I think he has posted it in one of your early threads.

Why don´t you post a plan of your train room for us to find out, how much room for a layout you really have?

Cheers!

Ulrich

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Posted by dbwv69 on Thursday, September 01, 2011 11:07 AM

Sir Madog

That´s a request not easy to fulfill.

6´by 12´ is a foot print, which is too large for the classic island type layout sitting in a corner of a room - your arms are just not long enough to reach into all corners of it, and too small for a around-the- wall layout.

steinjr is working on a 6´6" by 11´6" layout, IIRC, but I think he has posted it in one of your early threads.

Why don´t you post a plan of your train room for us to find out, how much room for a layout you really have?

6'x12' is the space I plan to use and the layout will be a walk around type to be housed in my garage.

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Posted by SMassey on Thursday, September 01, 2011 11:27 AM

OK so you are wanting a 6x12 layout that is basically an island in the middle of a large garage.  That is a start for the bench work only.  We need a little more to go on.  What kind of operation are you looking for?  Do you want a flat island or do you want the layout divided down the middle (3x12 x 2).  Do you want continous operations or point to point?  How about the type of industries or the era.  This all plays into designing the layout.  Let us know better how to help you.

 

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Posted by steinjr on Thursday, September 01, 2011 1:03 PM

  I suggested to the OP a while back that one thing he could do for a temporary test layout would be to actually use it as a temporary test layout  - split it in 2 or 3 or 4 parts with vertical viewblocks, and try your hand at 2, 3 or 4 totally different scenes from the area you want to model.

  Connecting the scenes would be a simple loop around the layout. Scenes can be picked by looking at prototype Appalachian scenes, or grabbing a handful of small scenes you want to experiement with  from the Appalachian Railroad Modeling web site, or by looking at track plans e.g. in the Model Railroader Magazine track plan database or whatever.

  If this layout actually is intended as a testbed to you continuous run and experience working on Appalachian scenes, it does not need to have fantastic 6x12 foot track plan and a grand operational scheme.

  Smile,
 Stein

 

 

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Posted by dbwv69 on Thursday, September 01, 2011 1:54 PM

steinjr

  I suggested to the OP a while back that one thing he could do for a temporary test layout would be to actually use it as a temporary test layout  - split it in 2 or 3 or 4 parts with vertical viewblocks, and try your hand at 2, 3 or 4 totally different scenes from the area you want to model.

  Connecting the scenes would be a simple loop around the layout. Scenes can be picked by looking at prototype Appalachian scenes, or grabbing a handful of small scenes you want to experiement with  from the Appalachian Railroad Modeling web site, or by looking at track plans e.g. in the Model Railroader Magazine track plan database or whatever.

  If this layout actually is intended as a testbed to you continuous run and experience working on Appalachian scenes, it does not need to have fantastic 6x12 foot track plan and a grand operational scheme.

  Smile,
 Stein

 

Yes you did. However, I did not like doing it that way so I came up with an alternate benchwork design and posted it to my other thread. It's not intended to be a "fantastic 6x12 foot track plan" but I do plan to make it something sutable for my interests.

BTW: Thanks for the website suggestion but I've been there and found none of the plans to be suitable for my needs.

All I want are examples of 6'x12' track plans. Like the one's posted to the following thread on this forum:

http://cs.trains.com/TRCCS/themes/trc/forums/thread.aspx?ThreadID=192200

Here's one example posted by you to the very same thread mentioned above:

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Posted by dbwv69 on Thursday, September 01, 2011 2:07 PM

SMassey

OK so you are wanting a 6x12 layout that is basically an island in the middle of a large garage.  That is a start for the bench work only.  We need a little more to go on.  What kind of operation are you looking for?  Do you want a flat island or do you want the layout divided down the middle (3x12 x 2).  Do you want continous operations or point to point?  How about the type of industries or the era.  This all plays into designing the layout.  Let us know better how to help you.

 

Massey

Continuous loop operations are preferred but I am flexible about everything else and will consider anything for now.

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Posted by steinjr on Thursday, September 01, 2011 2:11 PM

dbwv69

Yes you did. However, I did not like doing it that way so I came up with an alternate benchwork design and posted it to my other thread. It's not intended to be a "fantastic 6x12 foot track plan" but I do plan to make it something sutable for my interests.

All I want are examples of 6'x12' track plans. Like the one's posted to the following thread on this forum:

http://cs.trains.com/TRCCS/themes/trc/forums/thread.aspx?ThreadID=192200

Here's one example posted by you to the very same thread mentioned above:

http://i404.photobucket.com/albums/pp124/steinjr_1965/forum/6x12.jpg

 Which is a track plan not in the least suited to your interests, as you have described them - Applachian coal mines and/or logging.

 My suggestion is that instead of asking for random plans that are the size of your table, you look at the prototype you want to model and work up some scenes from that prototype.

 For instance - did you look at thos Appalachian Railroad Modeler plans I linked to - which covers that same theme as you are interested in?

 If you want random plans, there is a few at my home page :  http://home.online.no/~steinjr/trains/modelling/

 There are many hundred track plans in the Model Railroader Magazine track plan database (if you are a current subscriber, you can access them): http://mrr.trains.com/en/How%20To/Track%20Plan%20Database.aspx

 But I would again suggest that looking for random track plan of a given size is a blind alley - better to look for elements you want to include and shrink, enlarge or daisy chain them .

 But your layout. Good luck!

 Smile,
 Stein

 

 

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Posted by dbwv69 on Thursday, September 01, 2011 2:19 PM

Oh, and one more thing...

Please forget the words temporary or "test" because It's very likely that I will continue using this layout, even after my larger layout has been designed and constructed.

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Posted by dbwv69 on Thursday, September 01, 2011 2:28 PM

steinjr
Which is a track plan not in the least suited to your interests, as you have described them - Applachian coal mines and/or logging.

 My suggestion is that instead of asking for random plans that are the size of your table, you look at the prototype you want to model and work up some scenes from that prototype.

 For instance - did you look at thos Appalachian Railroad Modeler plans I linked to - which covers that same theme as you are interested in?

 If you want random plans, there is a few at my home page :  http://home.online.no/~steinjr/trains/modelling/

 There are many hundred track plans in the Model Railroader Magazine track plan database (if you are a current subscriber, you can access them): http://mrr.trains.com/en/How%20To/Track%20Plan%20Database.aspx

 But I would again suggest that looking for random track plan of a given size is a blind alley - better to look for elements you want to include and shrink, enlarge or daisy chain them .

 But your layout. Good luck!

 Smile,
 Stein

 

This may surprise you but I found the track plan posted above to be one of the most suitable plans that I've found to date. In fact, with a few tweaks, it may very well suit my needs. Don't you see it? A coal mine on one side, and rural scenes with a small industry or two on the other.

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Posted by steinjr on Thursday, September 01, 2011 3:36 PM

dbwv69

 

This may surprise you but I found the track plan posted above to be one of the most suitable plans that I've found to date. In fact, with a few tweaks, it may very well suit my needs. Don't you see it? A coal mine on one side, and rural scenes with a small industry or two on the other.

Sometimes it's impossible to interpret just exactly what someone may be looking for which is why I've tried to abandon that approach, in favor of seekng random plans that will fit the 6'x12' footprint.

I'm looking for inspiration more than an actual plan but to get that inspiration, I must see actual plans, suitable or not.

 Well, that plan is for a doughnut shaped layout, with industries along what will be the outer edge on a walk-around table. It of course could be turned inside out, but what I would do would be to look at what elements of that plan you like, and just copy those elements, not the whole plan - which does not have a particularily appalachian coalmining look and feel.

 Here is another plan - it is not 6 x 12 feet, but it shows a layout split into three scenes by viewblocks:

 

 

 It would be trivial to extend something like that - make it longer, make curves wider, have more room for scenery.

 If you want something with a more Appallachian feel - Rick Lahr's 4x8 foot Rosston, Joelberg & Holly RR layout from the Feb  2011 Model Railroader magazine looked pretty good and had some ideas that would work even better with wider curves and more space.

 Or you could look at the larger layout Greenbriar Branch of the C&O in the track plan database, from the track plan database (http://mrr.trains.com/~/media/import/files/pdf/3/5/a/ra1204_a.ashx) and just decide to copy the scene (or most of the scene) from e.g. Cass, Glady Fork or Greenbrier on that layout.

 My point? The look and feel of a theme is not given mainly by the footprint size. Ideas can be picked up from layouts in other sizes than 6 x 12 feet. Focusing on the size of the track plans you are looking at is not the most optimal strategy for finding inspiring scenes for an Appalachian layout.

  But I'll stop bothering you again now :-)

 Grin,
 Stein

 

 

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Posted by dbwv69 on Thursday, September 01, 2011 4:30 PM

I've never had any intention of simply copying a whole plan and want my plan to be unique and different from all the rest. What I need is a sense of scale, to give me a better idea of will or will not fit into a 6'x12' footprint.

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Posted by Doughless on Thursday, September 01, 2011 4:38 PM

After following this thread, I'm a bit confused as to what you want.  It seems like you want to find a database of only 6x12 track plans, with the idea that you can adjust any themed plan of that size to an Appalachian theme.

Or, by recall from the minds of forum members' hobby travels, have them post 6x12 plans that they remember to have seen.  

Both would seem to be tough requests, IMO

I think you may have better luck by including 4x8, 5x9, and any plan smaller than 6x12 and expanding it. If you are confident in your ability to adjust any plan to an Appalachian theme, nothing says you can't, then you shouldn't have much problem expanding a smaller plan to fill a 6x12.  How about starting with the smaller plans that have an Appalachian theme?

I think if you googled small track plans, there s/b various data bases to research.

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Posted by dbwv69 on Thursday, September 01, 2011 4:57 PM

Doughless

After following this thread, I'm a bit confused as to what you want.  It seems like you want to find a database of only 6x12 track plans, with the idea that you can adjust any themed plan of that size to an Appalachian theme.

Or, by recall from the minds of forum members' hobby travels, have them post 6x12 plans that they remember to have seen.  

Both would seem to be tough requests, IMO

I think you may have better luck by including 4x8, 5x9, and any plan smaller than 6x12 and expanding it. If you are confident in your ability to adjust any plan to an Appalachian theme, nothing says you can't, then you shouldn't have much problem expanding a smaller plan to fill a 6x12.  How about starting with the smaller plans that have an Appalachian theme?

I think if you googled small track plans, there s/b various data bases to research.

I'm interested in seeing any track plans that can easily be made to fit into a 6'x12' footprint and had just assumed that people would suggest anything they felt was appropriate. Adjusting a plan to fit an Appalachian theme shouldn't be too difficult but obviously, it depends on the plan.

Google is my primary method of research and I've tried just about every combination of phrases I can think of but wasn't coming up with much that I liked so I thought it wouldn't hurt to ask to see track plans, just to cover all the bases.

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Posted by steinjr on Thursday, September 01, 2011 5:14 PM

dbwv69

I've never had any intention of simply copying a whole plan and want my plan to be unique and different from all the rest. What I need is a sense of scale, to give me a better idea of will or will not fit into a 6'x12' footprint.

 A lot of published plans have a grid superimposed which tells you how big a scene is. 

 If not, you can estimate distances by looking at turnouts and crossovers. A crossover consisting of 2 #6 turnouts takes about a foot of length in H0 scale - the rate of divergence is about 1 in 6, and it is 2" between parallel tracks.

 A yard ladder of three #6 turnouts (ie having 3 tracks branch off a main in a classical ladder) takes about 30-32" - call it about 2 1/2 feet.

 A 40-foot boxcar is about 5.5" in H0 scale (40 feet x 12 inches/foot / 87.1 = 5.51") - so you get roughly 2 40-foot cars (or maybe 3 30-foot cars) to a foot of length. An small switcher engine is about 6" long, but most other engines are longer - about 8" for a typical 4 axle road switcher, a 2-8-0 steam engine with a tender is about 10 1/2" long.

 A rule of the thumb for curves should have minimum radiuses at least 2.5 -- 3 times the length of the longest car or engine in your train - for a 6" engine - 15-18", for a 10.5" engine about 26-31" radius. They look better on curves where you view them from the outside if you have curves with radius about 4 times the length, yard and industry tracks where you want to have automatic coupling should have a radius of about 5x the length of the longest piece of rolling stock.

 So it has a big impact on your design how long engines and cars you want to run, and how many cars to the train.

 So what I do when I start on a design is to draw a typical train and some cuts of cars and use those as yard sticks when messing around with where to start and end runarounds, where to have turnouts, how long leads I have, making sure I have somewhere to temporarily leave cars that gets pulled from an industry while I spot cars and so on and so forth.

 All of thes factors means that a track plan pretty much have to be adapted to work for your circumstances and desires, and that you will have to experiment with it anyways.

dbwv69

Sometimes communicating on forums is anything but easy, so I tend to try and only post about what I need without mentioning anything else that may or may not have been done. People tend to focus on things which may have no direct bearing on solving my problem or on things I've already done, which only causes confusion and frustration. I try to avoid it, but invariably it happens anyway.

 I would suggest that maybe it would be a good idea for you to drop this complaint, which you have articulated quite a few times earlier.

 Forum threads will wander.  And sometimes what we think has "no direct bearing" (like the persistent questioning about moving walls) actually turns out to have some bearing on the problem in the end after all.

 It may be annoying for you to explain your thinking and give some background, but it is helpful for the exhange of ideas if others understand where you come from and what you are trying to do.

 For instance - yoyu have mentioned several times that there are some interesting areas that have caught your attention in other plans. Why not draw a sketch of one or a few of the areas that caught your attention and explain what you like about it, and what the problem you have with applying the concept to your layout is?

 Smile,
 Stein

 

 

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Posted by richhotrain on Thursday, September 01, 2011 5:28 PM

dbwv69

I'm looking for inspiration more than an actual plan but to get that inspiration, I must see actual plans, suitable or not.

dbwv69, I don' t think that this forum is the best place to find what you are looking for.

The best sources are: (1) a published book of track plans for different spaces (2) the Internet by Googling "model railroad track plans" and (3) some of the Kalmbach books and special issue magazines on track plans and layout configurations.

The problem with waiting for help here is that someone has to dream up a track plan to fit your requirements.  That isn't likely to happen.

Rich

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Posted by richhotrain on Thursday, September 01, 2011 5:41 PM

Take a look at this link for starters.  It is a track plan database based upon size, scale, and track plan type.

http://mrr.trains.com/en/How%20To/Track%20Plan%20Database.aspx

Rich

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Posted by dbwv69 on Thursday, September 01, 2011 6:02 PM

I've already purchased a number of track plan (and other) books that were of little to no use and am fully aware of the "track plan database". Throwing money at the problem is not the solution. IMHO Been there, done that.

If anyone would like to share some track plans as previously described, I'd love to see them. Thanks

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Posted by CharlieM90 on Thursday, September 01, 2011 6:14 PM

dbwv69

BTW: Sometimes communicating on forums is anything but easy, so I tend to try and only post about what I need without mentioning anything else that may or may not have been done. People tend to focus on things which may have no direct bearing on solving my problem or on things I've already done, which only causes confusion and frustration. I try to avoid it, but invariably it happens anyway.

This would seem to be backwards.

It's unfair to characterize responses as being unfocused or having no direct bearing when you less than forthcoming over what the problem or need is.

Stating "I need a 6 x12 plan" and expecting responses to be focused or having a direct bearing on what you're looking for is unrealistic.  Frame the problem vaguely and you'll get vague (or no) answers.

State it more specifically (i.e. "I need a 6 x 12 plan and would like it to have XY&Z features") and you are likely to get responses more specific to what you're seeking.

Communicating on forums is easy. If you want meaningful responses, you need to frame questions in a meaningful way.

 

 

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Posted by dbwv69 on Thursday, September 01, 2011 6:17 PM

And the downward spiral begins. Please, I'd like to keep this thread on topic.

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Posted by richhotrain on Thursday, September 01, 2011 6:20 PM

dbwv69

I've already purchased a number of track plan (and other) books that were of little to no use and am fully aware of the "track plan database". Throwing money at the problem is not the solution. IMHO Been there, done that.

If anyone would like to share some track plans as previously described, I'd love to see them. Thanks

If you think that the various track books and the Kalmbach track plan database are of little to no use, then you cannot be helped because you are not willing to help yourself.  How is throwing money at the problem an issue when the Kalmbach track database is free and so is an Internet search?

Sitting around hoping that Stein or Paul will somehow draft a track plan that will inspire you is folly.  You need to do some research, draw up some track plans, and submit them for critique.  That's what the rest of us do.

Rich

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Posted by dbwv69 on Thursday, September 01, 2011 6:29 PM

Ok, I can clearly see that this thread is going nowhere fast. I should have known better. Oh well, live and learn.

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Posted by jeffrey-wimberly on Thursday, September 01, 2011 7:17 PM

You may have to take parts from 2 or more track plans and adapt them to your needs. My layout is 10 feet long on one side with a 3.5 foot loop, goes around in a 'U' shape and is 6.5 feet on the other side with another 3.5 foot loop. There are several spurs thrown in also. Don't give up.

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Posted by dbwv69 on Thursday, September 01, 2011 7:26 PM

richhotrain
the Kalmbach track database is free

Oh really? And I suppose "MR+" (Suscriber Only Content)  on most of the track plans means nothing. The last time I checked, that means you gotta pay $$$ to see them.

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Posted by dbwv69 on Thursday, September 01, 2011 7:32 PM

jeffrey-wimberly

You may have to take parts from 2 or more track plans and adapt them to your needs. My layout is 10 feet long on one side with a 3.5 foot loop, goes around in a 'U' shape and is 6.5 feet on the other side with another 3.5 foot loop. There are several spurs thrown in also. Don't give up.

Taking parts from multiple plans or using them for inspiration, was exactly what I have in mind.

I was thinking of having a mine on one side with a town and a small industry or two on the other side. Perhaps having them divided on an angle with a tunnel on one end and a bridge scene on the other end. If I could somehow squeeze a hidden staging track under the scenery, it would fit the theme perfectly.

Come to think of it, I've been visualizing it in quadrants. Left, right, top, and bottom, with each quadrant having it's own basic scenic elements.

Give up? Naaa, I'm just getting started. LOL

 

 

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Posted by richhotrain on Thursday, September 01, 2011 7:34 PM

Any subscriber to MRR can access the track plan database for free.

Here is the perfect plan for you:

http://mrr.trains.com/How%20To/Track%20Plan%20Database/2008/11/Milwaukee%20Roads%20Beer%20Line.aspx

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Posted by Doughless on Thursday, September 01, 2011 7:40 PM

dbwv69

 

 Doughless:

 

After following this thread, I'm a bit confused as to what you want.  It seems like you want to find a database of only 6x12 track plans, with the idea that you can adjust any themed plan of that size to an Appalachian theme.

Or, by recall from the minds of forum members' hobby travels, have them post 6x12 plans that they remember to have seen.  

Both would seem to be tough requests, IMO

I think you may have better luck by including 4x8, 5x9, and any plan smaller than 6x12 and expanding it. If you are confident in your ability to adjust any plan to an Appalachian theme, nothing says you can't, then you shouldn't have much problem expanding a smaller plan to fill a 6x12.  How about starting with the smaller plans that have an Appalachian theme?

I think if you googled small track plans, there s/b various data bases to research.

 

 

I'm interested in seeing any track plans that can easily be made to fit into a 6'x12' footprint and had just assumed that people would suggest anything they felt was appropriate. Adjusting a plan to fit an Appalachian theme shouldn't be too difficult but obviously, it depends on the plan.

Google is my primary method of research and I've tried just about every combination of phrases I can think of but wasn't coming up with much that I liked so I thought it wouldn't hurt to ask to see track plans, just to cover all the bases.

Ah.  I see.  there really aren't any 6x12 plans that come to mind.

Maybe a better way to ask the question of members would be:

What is you favorite 4x8, or 5x9 track plan?  (Since those are more popular sizes than 6x12)

Many experienced members could give you some names of a couple of trackplans they like and where they have seen them.  Perhaps you would get lucky and be supplied with a few that would have inspirational elements that you could incorporate into a larger space.

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Posted by dbwv69 on Thursday, September 01, 2011 7:42 PM

richhotrain

Any subscriber to MRR can access the track plan database for free.

And one becomes a subscriber how? BTW: That's a rhetorical question.

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Posted by Doughless on Thursday, September 01, 2011 7:56 PM

dbwv69

 

 Doughless:

 

After following this thread, I'm a bit confused as to what you want.  It seems like you want to find a database of only 6x12 track plans, with the idea that you can adjust any themed plan of that size to an Appalachian theme.

Or, by recall from the minds of forum members' hobby travels, have them post 6x12 plans that they remember to have seen.  

Both would seem to be tough requests, IMO

I think you may have better luck by including 4x8, 5x9, and any plan smaller than 6x12 and expanding it. If you are confident in your ability to adjust any plan to an Appalachian theme, nothing says you can't, then you shouldn't have much problem expanding a smaller plan to fill a 6x12.  How about starting with the smaller plans that have an Appalachian theme?

I think if you googled small track plans, there s/b various data bases to research.

 

 

I'm interested in seeing any track plans that can easily be made to fit into a 6'x12' footprint and had just assumed that people would suggest anything they felt was appropriate. Adjusting a plan to fit an Appalachian theme shouldn't be too difficult but obviously, it depends on the plan.

Google is my primary method of research and I've tried just about every combination of phrases I can think of but wasn't coming up with much that I liked so I thought it wouldn't hurt to ask to see track plans, just to cover all the bases.

Ah.  I see.  there really aren't any 6x12 plans that come to mind.

Maybe a better way to ask the question of members would be:

What is you favorite 4x8, or 5x9 track plan?  (Since those are more popular sizes than 6x12)

Many experienced members could give you some names of a couple of trackplans they like and where they have seen them.  Perhaps you would get lucky and be supplied with a few that would have inspirational elements that you could incorporate into a larger space.

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Posted by dbwv69 on Thursday, September 01, 2011 8:15 PM

richhotrain

Well, since you can't seem to figure out how to become a subscriber, I will post the layout for you.

(Image deleted for copyright violation)

I was a subscriber to MRR for many years (prior to the existence of this forum) but found that most of the issues didn't really have much that was of interest to me. Not that the issues weren't good, because they were, only that my interests are very specific. As a cost and space saving measure, I've since opted to buy them on an issue by issue basis if they appear to have something that is of interest to me.

And thank you for posting the track plan, it's not exactly what I'm looking for but it does help to give me a good sense of perspective, even though it doesn't have a grid.

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