Not too many months ago, I put up a backdrop for my downtown passenger station annex for my basement layout.
I first put up a 2' x 4' Masonite panel and then painted it a shade of blue, computer matched to the Walthers Instant Horizons, a wallpaper-like texture back drop which I glued to the Masonite backdrop with a spray adhesive, 3M Super 77. Well, it held up until recently, but now it is separating from the Masonite. Moisture, maybe ? Humidity? In any event, I need to use something better as an adhesive. I have actually thought about using wallpaper adhesive or some other form of glue that I could apply with a roller instead of spraying. Any thoughts, ideas, suggestions?
What do you use?
Rich
Alton Junction
Rich,
When it came apart did it remove the paint come off the masonite? Or did the paint stay in place. I used the same adhesive to glue some paper down to blue foam board a few months ago and have not noticed any problem. I think I will look at it this evening to make sure.
Masonite has a pretty smooth surface on one side as I recall. Smooth and sometimes shiney. Those conditions are not good for promoting paint adhesion. If the paint came off then you will know if it is paint adhesion problem. If the paint is still there then I have no clue. Perhaps too little adhesive. the Super 77 is pretty decent adhesive. I used to use it to apply lables to paint cans. The only time the lable came off was if I put on too little adhesive.
Just my thoughts.
Modeling a railroad hypothetically set in time.
Drew,
Thanks for those comments.
To answer your question, I did paint the smooth side of the Masonite panel and the paint remains undisturbed.
I followed the instructions to the letter on the spray can of 3M Super 77. So, all in all, I was pretty surprised that the adhesive began to give way.
Also, the instructions on the Walthers Instant Horizons back drop suggest using a spray adhesive although the instructions do not specify 3M Super 77.
Let's see what others have to say.
I had thought that any Premixed wallpaper paste would work great. A few instant horizons were done this way and the water in the paste caused wrinkling/ bubbling of the backdrop print. most did disappear once dried, but doesn't look all that great. The 3M super should have worked fine. Who knows. Since the back of the print now has the 3M glue still there, just try it again. Spray the masonite and then spray the print. reminds me of way back laminating Formica tops. The contact cement needed to be dry just right on both surfaces to bond properly.
Modeling B&O- Chessie Bob K. www.ssmrc.org
I use the 3M Super 77 spray adheasive. I spray both the backdrop, and the back of the photo murel....Mike
I have also used the 3M 77 stuff. Some of mine has been up for 10 years in an attic. The MRR is no longer there, but the backdrop still is. I also used it on the backdrops of my present layout with no problems.What I did was spray the back of the prints really heavy, and then put it up right away. I did not wait. I started by sticking on one corner (lower left), then worked up the left edge, then worked to the right (or left if you start on the right). I tried to keep it off the wall as I went along sticking it down. I used a paper towel or soft cloth (to keep my hands off it) on the front side to slide on it and to stick it to the wall and smooth it out as I went along. I tried to apply it like you would use a large piece of tape over something and you didn't want any wrinkles etc.It also helps if you can have someone help you hold the unstuck end while you work along pressing it in place if it is a large piece.Once it was on the wall, I kept coming back every half hour or so and kept pressing it on the wall to make sure the glue was making good contact with the wall. I guess I did that the whole day.
Elmer.
The above is my opinion, from an active and experienced Model Railroader in N scale and HO since 1961.
(Modeling Freelance, Eastern US, HO scale, in 1962, with NCE DCC for locomotive control and a stand alone LocoNet for block detection and signals.) http://waynes-trains.com/ at home, and N scale at the Club.
Mike and Gandy Dancer both have the right idea. My experience is to use contact cement, just as you would in a counter laminate application. coat both the masonite, and the backdrop material, let dry to touch, and then apply-CAREFULly!!! If you can, apply it to the [masonite[ while it is laying flat; this way, you can put a series of sticks under the backdrop, position it, then remove the centre stick, and touch the picture down on the surface. Carefully remove the rest of the sticks, one side at a time, and smooth down the print; then the other side. Give it a coat of some sealer like Krylon clear flat, or even Dullcote, then blend in the sky, etc. Now you can hang the masonite where you want it.
EF-3 Yellowjacket
Yeah, perhaps that was my problem. I applied the adhesive just to the Masonite and I am beginning to wonder if I put it on thick enough and waited "too long" to affix the paper back drop.
The consensus here seems to be that the 3M Super 77 adhesive is a good enough product but the application of the product is critical.
Nuts. Oh well, I will try again.
Thanks, all, for your comments and advice.
A very good alternative is to use a wheat-based wallpaper paste. No problems with colors running, etc because there's no water in the paste. Good working time, great initial adhesion and plenty of working time for aligning joints.
Don Z.
Research; it's not just for geeks.
Rich, I used 3m Super 77 on my Walthers Insta Horizons backdrop on my earlier layout, on the shiny unpainted side of Masonite. I sprayed the panels and set it on within a matter of moments. Not a hint of a problem. I am really surprised that anything would lift off after Super 77.
I know you followed instructions. No offence but I would question only this:
a) did you use enough spray? Often we are tempted to be tentative. Go for a good thorough coating.
b) do not paint the Masonite
c) do you have extreme swings of humidity or temperature?
d) did you hesitate for more than 15 seconds after spraying, to attach the paper?
The only problem I had with back drops was using Elmers spray in my first attempt. It did not stick at all...just enough so that I could not rescue the panels that stuck partially and I had to repurchase the entire 6 Insta Horizons and start over with 3M.
On my latest heavy weight plasti-coated paper of the Backdrop Warehouse I used the rubber cement recommended for those. It can lift a bit if not coated and timed correctly....but the beauty is that it is makes the coated heavy paper quite repositionable. I am not sure how it would work for lighter paper backdrops though. I know it can show lumps on those because of the paper's weight.
I would stick to 3m and really be thorough.
Cisco Kid Rich, I used 3m Super 77 on my Walthers Insta Horizons backdrop on my earlier layout, on the shiny unpainted side of Masonite. I sprayed the panels and set it on within a matter of moments. Not a hint of a problem. I am really surprised that anything would lift off after Super 77. I know you followed instructions. No offence but I would question only this: a) did you use enough spray? Often we are tempted to be tentative. Go for a good thorough coating. b) do not paint the Masonite c) do you have extreme swings of humidity or temperature? d) did you hesitate for more than 15 seconds after spraying, to attach the paper? The only problem I had with back drops was using Elmers spray in my first attempt. It did not stick at all...just enough so that I could not rescue the panels that stuck partially and I had to repurchase the entire 6 Insta Horizons and start over with 3M. On my latest heavy weight plasti-coated paper of the Backdrop Warehouse I used the rubber cement recommended for those. It can lift a bit if not coated and timed correctly....but the beauty is that it is makes the coated heavy paper quite repositionable. I am not sure how it would work for lighter paper backdrops though. I know it can show lumps on those because of the paper's weight. I would stick to 3m and really be thorough.
CK,
Good points, thanks for your reply.
It may be that I did not use enough spray. I have wondered about that. Also, I only sprayed the Masonite but not the back of the paper back drop. But I applied the Instant Horizons immediately after spraying.
I applied it to the smooth side of the Masonite board. I painted the Masonite board first because I actually applied the Instant Horizons back drop in sections with spaces in between which were computer matched to the blue background of the Instant Horizons back drop. I did this because I wanted to vary the background scene.
The temperature and humidity in the basement are fairly constant.
In retrospect, I think I may not have adequately sprayed the surface. I will try to re-do it.
Here is the painted Masonite panel with the sections of the Instant Horizons back drop.
You can see the computer matched color is pretty good.
The affected section is right behind the train station tower.
The photo was taken before the Instant Horizons back drop began to separate.
I used Elmer's rubber glue and thought it was excellent.
Not only did it do a great job and affixing the backdrops in place, it also allowed me to later pull a couple of the backdrops off at a later date in order to reposition them... without damaging them one iota.
Why not try removable wallpaper paste?
{sorry I did not read through all responses so sorry if this is a duplicate idea}.
-G .
Just my thoughts, ideas, opinions and experiences. Others may vary.
HO and N Scale.
After long and careful thought, they have convinced me. I have come to the conclusion that they are right. The aliens did it.