Dear Friends
I'm planning to build my nearly-three-year-old son an HO-scale layout soon, and image of which is attached. The inside of the layout will be open.
Originally, I planned to build an O-scale layout, but because of cost and space, I changed my plan to HO scale.
I don't know much about trains aside from the fact that my son loves them. He has over a hundred Thomas-related characters, several tracks, and the O-gauge Thomas starter oval from Lionel.
I spend most of my time on computers and am not handy, but I'm willing to learn.
I understand that shelf layouts are highly recommended, but my son needs loops right now, and I want to build him a layout that's a good compromise between ease and speed of construction and fun operation.
I plan to start with MTH DCS-equipped locomotives, probably a couple of diesels that operate on 18" curves. But I want to build the track with curves wide enough to accommodate most passenger coaches, so I opted for 30- (Super-Flex, which requires cutting and soldering), 24-, and 22-inch curves.
I plan to build a tunnel using geodesic foam in one of the corners.
I hope I can implement a hinged liftgate so I can get into the layout with my son to play with him. The layout probably won't be but 24-30 inches high, making it difficult to duck under or climb over--at least for me. With a liftgate wouldn't I have to create three sections of equidistant straights for this design?
I opted for Atlas's 18" truss-style bridges and want to know if they're wide enough to allow long passenger coaches to turn upon exit. If not, I suppose I'll need to figure out how to build the layout with 12- to 18-inch straights entering and exiting the bridges.
The design is, of course, simple ovals, but I positioned the bridges to create a little more visual interest.
I realize the design is pitifully boring, but I don't know what else to do to stay within this space and have something my toddler can operate. I hope to compensate for the tedium of the design by tiering the lines and installing a few buildings. I plan to use some type of ground cover, too, such as Woodland Scenics turf. I'd love to include some type of operating accessory, but I haven't seen any of those in HO scale yet. I may try to carve out a waterway of some sort if I'm not frustrated and exhausted by the time I get to that point.
To summarize, here are my questions:
I live in Buford, Georgia, which is located approximately thirty-five miles north of Atlanta. I'd love to make a few friends in this hobby.
--Jaddie
Hi, Jaddie, and welcome to the asylum. I don't know much about layout design, but as far as the bridges go, you might want to go more with an open design, like a trestle or a deck girder. No sides to worry about.
Also, that layout height sounds difficult to work with. Maybe a bit higher with some built-in steps for the lad? Don't know if this is your first (kid, not layout) or not, but they grow pretty darn fast and I can't imagine the hassle of trying to raise a layout for when he is 5-years-old.
Sean
HO Scale CSX Modeler
I'd change it to put the outside 2 tracks closer together and remvoe the inside track.. Add sidings so that you have industries to drop off and pick up freight cars. Having 3 mains like shown with no purpose will get boring very fast.
Springfield PA
Jaddie, being that you are north east of Atlanta you should check into the train clubs in the area. And if I remember right there is a great hobby shop some where close to you.
A lift out would fit good on the left side of the track plan you posted and with long passanger cars I will have to say you would be better off using #6 turnouts.
Johnnny_reb Once a word is spoken it can not be unspoken!
My Train Page My Photobucket Page My YouTube Channel
Dear Sean
Thanks for the welcome to the asylum. I guess model railroading provides asylum for lots of folks, apparently lots of smart and handy ones.
Your suggestion for an open girder bridge is a practical solution I'll use. Maybe I can put a truss bridge in a location where turns won't be an issue.
Dear Hamltn
I had planned for the inner oval to be the area where an industry could be developed. I don't understand switching and operations, so maybe an oval won't work for dropping off and picking up freight cars. I thought my son might have some cars on one side of the oval and a different set of cars on another portion of the oval. He might have to push some out of the way, get to an outer loop, and come in another way to hook up to the rear coupler.
Will the oval not work for light operations?
I wish I could develop a purpose for the railroad, but I'm so uneducated about railroading in general that I don't know how to devise a purpose.
Thanks for responding.
Dear Johnnny
I've searched for clubs in my area, but they're either building layouts or doing operations. I have no skills or knowledge in either area and am afraid I'd cause "confusion and delay," as Sir Topham Hatt says. I'd like to visit a club in which I could learn without being in the way.
I've never thrown a switch on a railroad in my life, and I've never had an electric track other than a simple oval. I don't even know what that little crescent-shaped thing is at the front of HO equipment.
There are a bunch of excellent train stores within about twelve miles of me. There are four I can think of off the top of my head. The first two are located within five miles of our home.
Those number-six turnouts consume a lot of space when used as a "forward-and-reverse crossover" (I don't know the correct technical term for this.).
Would you make the layout larger, or would you opt for a single-direction crossover?
Jaddie,
It might be more than you want for a simple start, but to get a good idea about how railroads work and the track planning to express that, get a copy of "Track Planning for Realistic Operatiion" (3rd Edition) by John Armstrong.
It is brief, concise and easy to understand. Sooner or later you will find it extremely useful. It is one of the bibles of the hobby and is available on our host's publishing site; also, on Amazon and possibly others.
Dante
Jaddie Dear Friends I'm planning to build my nearly-three-year-old son an HO-scale layout soon, and image of which is attached. The inside of the layout will be open. Originally, I planned to build an O-scale layout, but because of cost and space, I changed my plan to HO scale. I don't know much about trains aside from the fact that my son loves them. He has over a hundred Thomas-related characters, several tracks, and the O-gauge Thomas starter oval from Lionel.
Hi Jaddie,
I'm going to ask why again you're going to HO. If the layout is really for your son, who already has an O-gauge starter set, maybe it would be better to stay in the larger scale.
In the space you have, you can easily do a nice small O layout, perfect for a young train fan.
Now if it's for you as well, well that changes things!
I'm trying to model 1956, not live in it.
Scarpia Jaddie: Dear Friends I'm planning to build my nearly-three-year-old son an HO-scale layout soon, and image of which is attached. The inside of the layout will be open. Originally, I planned to build an O-scale layout, but because of cost and space, I changed my plan to HO scale. I don't know much about trains aside from the fact that my son loves them. He has over a hundred Thomas-related characters, several tracks, and the O-gauge Thomas starter oval from Lionel. Hi Jaddie, I'm going to ask why again you're going to HO. If the layout is really for your son, who already has an O-gauge starter set, maybe it would be better to stay in the larger scale. In the space you have, you can easily do a nice small O layout, perfect for a young train fan. Now if it's for you as well, well that changes things!
Jaddie: Dear Friends I'm planning to build my nearly-three-year-old son an HO-scale layout soon, and image of which is attached. The inside of the layout will be open. Originally, I planned to build an O-scale layout, but because of cost and space, I changed my plan to HO scale. I don't know much about trains aside from the fact that my son loves them. He has over a hundred Thomas-related characters, several tracks, and the O-gauge Thomas starter oval from Lionel.
I have to side with Scarpia on this one. With a three year son and some O-gauge stuff already in hand, you should consider sticking with O-gauge, at least until your son gets older and can handle the more delicate and finicky HO scale stuff.
As for the layout design, it is not all that bad in that each of the ovals connect to one another for continuous operation. Try it and if it becomes boring too quickly, then redesign it.
Rich
Alton Junction
If you go with HO I would purchase inexpensive or used locomotives and rolling stock for your son until he gets older and can safely handle more expensive equipment. If you want the nice stuff run it after the little one goes to bed. This is what I do with my grandkids. No sense running a $100+ locomotive off the board when a $25 Bachman will crash just as well without damaging your pocket book quite to the extreme.
Dear Dante
I just ordered the book you suggested. Thanks for responding.
Dear Scarpia
I decided on HO because of the cost and space savings over O. Now I'm reconsidering that decision based on the suggestions here.
O-scale locomotives with remote control start at about US$320. Many are US$600-1200. In my limited catalog browsing, it seems that O-scale rolling stock costs US$50-90 for each piece.
If we went with O-scale I think we'd make heavy use of O-36 curves to keep the layout within our space, and many of the nicer engines require wider curves. If I give up my photography studio in our basement, we could do an O-72+ layout, but I don't want to do that at this point.
I have about US$2500 I can spend. I'd like to provide him with the layout (including foam risers, buildings, figures, and other accessories), track, a couple of engines, ten to twelve pieces of rolling stock, and remote control.
As for me, I get a lot of satisfaction from making my son happy. Layout design has become an obsession for me, but because I don't understand railroading in general, I haven't progressed very far. My hobbies and vocations are computers and photography, which cost too much for me to have another hobby just for myself.
Dear eaglescout
Even the conventional Bachmann Thomas-series engines run US$70 and up. I'm not sure there's an inexpensive way to get involved in model railroading.
I'll take a look at what's available on eBay. I definitely don't want damaged equipment. We've already had to have Thomas, Annie, and Clarabel's couplers adjusted because our little buddy dropped them.
Jaddie I decided on HO because of the cost and space savings over O. Now I'm reconsidering that decision based on the suggestions here. O-scale locomotives with remote control start at about US$320. Many are US$600-1200. In my limited catalog browsing, it seems that O-scale rolling stock costs US$50-90 for each piece. If we went with O-scale I think we'd make heavy use of O-36 curves to keep the layout within our space, and many of the nicer engines require wider curves. If I give up my photography studio in our basement, we could do an O-72+ layout, but I don't want to do that at this point. I have about US$2500 I can spend. I'd like to provide him with the layout (including foam risers, buildings, figures, and other accessories), track, a couple of engines, ten to twelve pieces of rolling stock, and remote control. As for me, I get a lot of satisfaction from making my son happy. Layout design has become an obsession for me, but because I don't understand railroading in general, I haven't progressed very far. My hobbies and vocations are computers and photography, which cost too much for me to have another hobby just for myself.
If you are making a layout for a 3 year old, he will not care about it being advanced or prototypical. He will want to touch stuff and move it with his own hands. For a three year old, the perfect layout is one of those wooden Brio-type train setups - where he can make changes and actively play without damaging anything expensive or easy to crush.
So if your goal actually is to amuse your son, either give him a wooden toy to play on the floor with. Or possibly take the O scale set you already have, and set it up on a shelf, where it can run back and forth, with a button the kid can press to reverse directions or sound the horn or stuff like that.
A three year old will not be switching cars with a H0 scale locomotive. When he is 7-8 years old, you can introduce him to running model trains on a real layout.
Likewise - a small kid will love Thomas the tank engine, but not give a hoot about whether you have a modern engine or an old fashioned engine or a wild mix of modern and old.
On the other hand, if the "it's for the kid" is what it normally is - mostly an excuse presented to the wife to allow the dad to do model trains, then that is a different story altogether.
So the first thing to be clear (to yourself, if not to your wife :-) about is whether you are actually building a layout for a small kid, or a layout for yourself.
Smile, Stein
A layout of this size and complexity is not going to hold a 3-year-old's attention for more than a few scant minutes -- been there, done that -- at his age something along the line of a Brio wooden train would be more appropriate. By the time you get it built he will have probably totally lost interest.
Dear Stein & cacole
Thanks for responding. My son already has a large table-top Thomas wooden railway set, the Zip Zoom Logging Adventure set (large Trackmaster series), a smaller wooden railway set, the Shake-Shake Bridge set (small Trackmaster), yet another Trackmaster-series set at his grandparents', and two Thomas Take-a-Long mini sets.
He plays with them all, nearly every waking minute, which is why I thought he might enjoy an electric train.
Trains have been his main interest for about a year-and-a-half. We've been to Chattanooga for A Day Out With Thomas and to the stage show Thomas Saves the Day. We're throwing him a train-themed birthday party in August.
My youngest used to play with Geo Trax non stop and still does when he feels like building a new layout. We had a good amount of track and structures from multiple sets. I bought him a Atlas HO Sante Fe set for X-mas about 1 month before my join date to the forums here. He ran the train on the tracks twice, he used the loco and rolling stock plenty, however most of the wheels and trucks are missing if you know what I mean.
Point is, you may find yourself telling him what he can't do more then running the trains. Have a look at Geo Trax, the have a wireless remote, they only go forward and stop but they have turnouts and "industrys" Over the years we collected almost 80' of track, could run more then 1 train at a time, for a much smaller budget. Build the expensive train set for yourself that he can run under your supervision.
Jon
Jaddie Dear Hamltn I had planned for the inner oval to be the area where an industry could be developed. I don't understand switching and operations, so maybe an oval won't work for dropping off and picking up freight cars. I thought my son might have some cars on one side of the oval and a different set of cars on another portion of the oval. He might have to push some out of the way, get to an outer loop, and come in another way to hook up to the rear coupler. Will the oval not work for light operations? I wish I could develop a purpose for the railroad, but I'm so uneducated about railroading in general that I don't know how to devise a purpose. Thanks for responding. --Jaddie
Basically industries don't run off of a main track. Think of a building with a loading dock that the train is parked next to. You could take a ride to look at local companies that are serviced by the rails. They will always have a spur that feeds them off of the main or service track. It also adds a lot more fun to the layout. As someone else has noted, a 3 year old won't be interested in sidings and switching but I can tell you from experience, time flies. Kids don't wait around. They grow faster than you can imagine and before you know it, are in their teens.
Besides, do you think we believe it's only for the 3 year old. How about the other kid playing with the trains (You). There's a kid in all of us and I'm sure you'll be getting your hands in there as well.
Oh and I forgot last time. Welcome to the forums.
HO trains are too delicate for a toddler... he will bust stuff up, guaranteed. Heck, I'm an adult and I do it, lol.
Being a parent myself, IMHO, his attention span, at three years old, will not go well with a oval, even with scenery and industries on it. As adults, we can push aside the compression that's built into every layout and see a bigger picture. But a toddler's eventually going to see an oval. Again, this is my opinion.
I bought my oldest grandson Brio trains, several sets, and he just loves them. He can make any shape he wants, which is huge for any kid that age. His trains can go to Africa or simply down the street. There are no limits and he's not boxed in by permanent tracks and scenery. They also sell battery powered engines for them and I think they even make remote controlled loco's, too.
-Ed
"We are what we repeatedly do. Excellence, then, is not an act but a habit." -Aristotle
Jaddie He plays with them all, nearly every waking minute, which is why I thought he might enjoy an electric train.
First kid?
H0 scale electric model trains are the wrong toys for a 3 year old, no matter how fascinated he is about trains.If you build a layout, you will end up spending much time on the layout and little time with the kid, and you will be spending a lot of time telling him to not touch and not break things.
Get him some battery powered engines for his Thomas wooden tracks, and some more powered accessories. And maybe get a few videos or DVDs showing model trains or real trains that you guys can watch together.
Then try to introduce electric model trains at about age 6 or 7 or so.Or maybe slightly later - say age 8 or 9 or so, depending on his interests at that time.
Another idea for researching industries served by rails, is using Google Earth satellite images. That's a wonderful way of seeing how the railroads layout their trackwork. The satellite images is an amazing tool for us modelers.
My favorite thing to look at, is big rail yards, big huge yards!
Michael
CEO- Mile-HI-RailroadPrototype: D&RGW Moffat Line 1989
Dear Stein & Motley
Yes, Max is our first child, and given our ages, 41 and 39, probably our last. We were married for 17 years before having Max. We've blogged about him every day since he was born.
Motley, maybe you could share a couple of your Google Earth links so I can see a big yard.
Max has the five-DVD I Love Toy Trains set and the four-DVD set O-Gauge Layout Adventures. He has more than two dozen Thomas & Friends DVDs on his iPad. Believe it or not, he can operate his iPad very well.
We ordered him a new train table with a wooden railway on it today. We'll probably give it to him for his birthday in August. Then we'll have two train tables in our living room. Right now we have a train table with wooden railway, a bench for his fold-up train sets, and the Zip Zoom Logging Adventure set on the floor. His Race Down the Rails wooden railway is on the coffee table in the room next to our living room. His O-gauge Thomas normally is on our dining room table, but it's not set up now because we had a family dinner on Monday.
The boy loves trains.
Well, North Platte Nebraska has the largest yard I know of. It's absolutely huge!
Check it out HERE
And here is some interesting trackwork HERE
steinjr H0 scale electric model trains are the wrong toys for a 3 year old, no matter how fascinated he is about trains.If you build a layout, you will end up spending much time on the layout and little time with the kid, and you will be spending a lot of time telling him to not touch and not break things. Get him some battery powered engines for his Thomas wooden tracks, and some more powered accessories. And maybe get a few videos or DVDs showing model trains or real trains that you guys can watch together.
I have lots of kids and in my opinion this is the best advice you're going to get, and if you ignore it (as I have seen several dads do) you run the risk of killing off his interest in trains.
I might add one note: kids being kids, don't be surprised if he wakes up one day and suddenly has no interest at all in trains! Kids change and it can be quick.
The St. Francis Consolidated Railroad of the Colorado Rockies
Denver, Colorado
I have 3 boys (the youngest born 5 months before my 40th birthday), and only one of them is interested in trains. He doesn't like anything to do with fantasy / medieval stuff; that's all his brothers want to play with.
Here's what I did. I have my own layout, which he is allowed to operate under my supervision. Even from the age of 4, he was capable of running trains at prototypical speeds and using them to serve industries, even telling me how to line switches. I developed a little card game, in which he would draw a card to determine which locomotive he needed to use, and a second to tell him where he needed to pick up cargo. Then he would pick a third card to determine the length of the trip (1-3 laps around), with the destination determined by the cargo. He could do this for a long time (more than an hour -- an eternity for a small child) without getting bored.
I also built him his very own layout -- basically 4 x 8 loop of Powerloc track (w/ the molded-on roadbed), a passing track, and two sidings. I bought him the Bachmann Thomas train stuff to use. It's HO, and pretty rugged, so he won't break it (too badly). For a while, this layout was a mess -- trees knocked over, loose gravel and lumber loads strewn everywhere, matchbox cars in ponds, and structures knocked over like a tornado had been through. Now that he's older, we've ditched the Thomas stuff for some better equipment, vacuumed the crud off the layout, and repaired the damage. He operates it all on his own (with a sound system and everything).
So, if the layout REALLY IS for your son, a similar approach might work for you; although I think the track plan you have is too complicated for a small child and too simplistic for an adult.
Connecticut Valley Railroad A Branch of the New York, New Haven, and Hartford
"If you think you can do a thing or think you can't do a thing, you're right." -- Henry Ford
Jaddie
I once started building a layout for my son (40 Years ago). I found that I was really building it for myself. From experience I found that HO is too small for a three year old because he will want to touch the cars and engines. Derailment after derailment will be frustrating for him and yourself. My suggestion would be to build the HO railroad for yourself and he can grow into it later. Get you son a cheap large scale plastic model set that runs on batteries so he can start running his trains right out of the box.
Just Saying!
Another thought if you decide to go with something less fragile and sophisticated for your son: Lego trains. At shows I have seen layouts by adult clubs; they do attract the attention of kids.
Actually, the LEGO trains might be just the ticket. My kids have one of those, too. They've got a lot of stuff, and it's all in the same scale (obviously). Even at 3, my kids had no trouble assembling basic LEGO kits, and while they will come apart, permanent damage is very difficult to inflict.
The only issue you might have is that size wise, it's pretty close to O scale. The trains will take much sharper corners than prototype, though.