There are six, count 'em, 6 "syllable forms" that determine the pronunciation of the vast majority of English sounds. Unfortunately these have not been taught in public school for over 50 years. Hence folks have problems. The "modern" approach is to just memorize about 100,000 words, which can't be done.
Sometimes the "old" method is called phonics and is apparently the bane of all educators except home schoolers (Who seem to have very little trouble teaching their kids to read before the first grade.)
Using the method that was used in the 2 previous centuries my wife can teach non-English speakers of any language to speak and read English in 12 - 15 week with proficiency that allows them to do well in our schools and universities.
But, all that said, nobody really cares if immigrants or even our own citizens can read English. The national dropout rate is a disgrace.
So...there is a solution if anyone cared to listen.
http://www.dallasesl.com/
http://www.improve-education.org/index.html
Jim Murray The San Juan Southern RR
Let us not dwell on a persons disability. I know a few older folks that can not read or write but are very capable craftsmen at their professions. I also know a blind person who owns and crew chiefs on a drag racing car. He has been known to build engines without assistance from anyone. Do the best you can is all we can ask.
As for the question of using flex over the ez track. Using flex is easier than you think. A good pair of rail cutters is a must. A small mill file will help with dressing up the ends. 22 inch radius is good for most locomotives but the larger ones look silly and toy like on them. You would be happier with a 24 inch radius or larger. Using flex track will give you more freedom from the oval round the table shape that you will be bored with in a short time. Another plus is few track joints. The fewer joints the better your electrical transmission.
Good luck.
Pete
I pray every day I break even, Cause I can really use the money!
I started with nothing and still have most of it left!
Zach,
Much good advice here. XURON makes nice rail cutters.
http://www.modeltrainstuff.com/product-p/791-2175b.htm
Probably available at your local hobby shop (LHS for texters )
Flex track is not difficult and you can use some "snap track" or whatever its called in spots where you can't seem to manage the flex.
Regards,
well thank's all for all the awesome advice. So flex track aint that hard to use and i know id be better off with larger than 22 inche radius but a 4x8 table is all i have space for and is all i have to work with. now my question is how do i figure out how much flex track do i need to buy cause i will be buying all my stuff online and what are good places on the internet to get the rail nipper's file and flex track. thank's zach.
Did this topic get hi-jacked to something non-train/layout related? All of the sudden I see a forum topic labeled: "A Plan for the Improvement of English Spelling". Does that belong in some other forum?
Rio Grande. The Action Road - Focus 1977-1983
well somehow my thread got re titled that my title was i need help in hte layout desing planning section yeah it pretty much did get hijacked ot somethign it shouldnt' be. if someone can chage it back please do so thank's zach.
If you download the free RTS track planning software from atlasrr.com you can design your layout and it will tell you how much and what you need.
This online site looks pretty good but you may not need 25 pieces. Of course they have lots of other good stuff too.
http://www.modeltrainstuff.com/product-p/atl-50025.htm
http://atlasrr.com/
Search for RTS and pick version 10. There are sample plans too.
Ain't this fun?
Maybe you can change the title back. It's your thread (post). Try edit.
Odd, eh?
CSX17 well somehow my thread got re titled that my title was i need help in hte layout desing planning section yeah it pretty much did get hijacked ot somethign it shouldnt' be. if someone can chage it back please do so thank's zach.
Done.
well hope this does it i dont' know how to edit thest thread's where are good internet base places to get stuff from guy's thanki's.
Shore nuff!
CSX17 well hope this does it i dont' know how to edit thest thread's where are good internet base places to get stuff from guy's thanki's.
I personally buy most of my stuff from ebay. Particularly a seller called "The Favorite Spot". I don't have any affiliation with him, but I've bought a lot of stuff from him over the years. He's a good guy to deal with. He sells a lot of Bachmann locomotives.
I also buy a lot of stuff directly from Walthers when they have sales.
I have heard a lot of people here recommend MB Klines. I have personally never purchased from them, but they seem to have a good reputation amongst the people on this forum. I saw someone-- SteinJr, I think-- give the URL to their web page in this thread, a few posts back.
John
jwhitten I have heard a lot of people here recommend MB Klines. I have personally never purchased from them, but they seem to have a good reputation amongst the people on this forum. I saw someone-- SteinJr, I think-- give the URL to their web page in this thread, a few posts back.
A handful of places I have bought stuff from and been satisfied with:
M.B Klein. http://www.modeltrainstuff.com
Trainworld: http://www.trainworldonline.com/
Walthers: http://www.walthers.com
Hobbylinc: http://www.hobbylinc.com/Model_Trains
Caboose Hobbies: http://www.caboosehobbies.com/catalog/index_brief.php
Pretty much everyone has their own favorite places. Most are good. There is a few places you want to stay away from since they tend to charge your credit card fast, and deliver the goods extremely slowly. In particular, you would want to stay away from a place called InternetHobbies (if I remember the name correctly).
To find more places, use the search box ("Search our community") in the right margin of this place, and look for e.g.:
recommended internet seller recommended internet store experience internet buying
or similar search terms. You will find heaploads of recommendations and comments.
Smile, Stein
okay cool thank's dude for those link's ill start surfing thsoe site's and looking on here some. where would i be able to find osme track plans ive decided to make thsi permenant now ill get a small computer desk as a work bench. for a 5x8 yeah i am going to add onto the existing table so i can get a tad wider truns' since i want to run sd60's and sd70m-2's and big stuff like that and maybe it be a twice aroudn kidn of track plan thanks' zach.
riogrande5761 Did this topic get hi-jacked to something non-train/layout related? All of the sudden I see a forum topic labeled: "A Plan for the Improvement of English Spelling". Does that belong in some other forum?
Yes, I think it got hijacked.
Unfortunately an English lesson should come with some posted thread topics.
If the OP doesn't know how to type, spell or use proper grammar, it can be very difficult to ascertain his question or meaning concisely. If someone isn't kind enough to point out that "text speak" or "chat speak" of very bad English makes it hard to offer the appropriate advice, the OP will eventually post thread questions that no one will answer as it hurts their eyes and heads trying to decipher the OP's meaning.
None of us are above misspelling or typos, but some threads are harder to read than others and folks tend not to post to that person's questions anymore. Then the OP gets discouraged being ignored and goes away, when we might actually have a new good modeler in our midst.
I am dyslexic, and it gets worse as I get older, so I can mistype a word as my brain "sees" it that way. Spell checker doesn't know I want the word "from" instead of the word "form" as I type in the order my brain "sees" it. Spell checker here on this site doesn't work for me anyway. ANd MS Word documents don't always translate well here.
Now, we return this thread to it's original programming without further interruption......
-G .
Just my thoughts, ideas, opinions and experiences. Others may vary.
HO and N Scale.
After long and careful thought, they have convinced me. I have come to the conclusion that they are right. The aliens did it.
Walthers is a good source if the items are on sale.
Otherwise, I use MB Klein and they are absolutely wonderful to deal with/
http://www.modeltrainstuff.com
Rich
Alton Junction
CSX17 okay cool thank's dude for those link's ill start surfing thsoe site's and looking on here some. where would i be able to find osme track plans ive decided to make thsi permenant now ill get a small computer desk as a work bench. for a 5x8 yeah i am going to add onto the existing table so i can get a tad wider truns' since i want to run sd60's and sd70m-2's and big stuff like that and maybe it be a twice aroudn kidn of track plan thanks' zach.
Much better. Now start using the Enter key for line feed (start a new line every now and then for clarity.)
Have fun,
Thank's bud yeah im trying. is the athearn gennis unit's any good cause they have the engiens i really want the sd60's and sd70m-2's are coming out pretty soon. and i want a sound equipped engine. since i put toghter the bachman track pack as a switching layout for now.
What would be better buying a engine and useing what i have a switchign layout for now or forget the engien sicne i have a old crappy gp38 in ns though it's only dc and i have no clue how olde it is just been running it on the dc setting on my zepher. thank's zach.
Even better.
I've sort of lost track of what you want to do. If you're going to stay with DC for a while and your NS GP38 runs OK (or maybe it needs a bit leaning or tuning) you can get some fun running your switching layout while you plan for greater things.
If you really want sound (Can you get that with DC or DC/DCC engines?) a new engine is might make running more fun..
If you can afford a starter DCC set that would add a lot of interest to even the simplest layout (Sound, Momentum, auto-reverse, all kinds of stuff.)
Or while running and planning you could build a few small structures for interest and possible use on a future layout.
Just don't try to go too fast. Planning can be fun and, I think, is really necessary for a satisfying layout. Even a 4X8.
okay well let me try and clear thing's up for ya will try my best at that.
i wanted some advice on some track at first okay got osme answer's for that. Im planning on useign the flex track. I have a dcc system the digitrax zepher and a dcc locomotive and have set up a small switching layout to keep my busy for a while and want a nice dcc and sound equipped locmotive but my question is what would i be better off doing gong ahead and getting hte locomotive first and then fiddle with it on the switching layout for a while and then start on the actual real layout or start on the real layout and then acuire a new loco. that is what i wanted know thank's zach.
DCC upgrades aren't all that hard. You can often find someone who will do it for a small fee.
I want to correct a misconception that you seem to have. A switching layout IS a real layout -- in fact, it's more prototypical than your standard loop of track. A small one is rather limiting though, so I think you mean that you want to expand it in the future. If I were you, I would design a series of modules, so that you can gradually expand your track plan as time and budget allow. Use the switching layout as a core and build off of it.
Me, personally, although I do enjoy planning and building scenery, I also love operating trains. I'd go ahead and invest in a few locos. One advantage of DCC is you can have several on your layout at the same time, and you don't have to worry about all of them moving when you advance the throttle.
Athearn locos can be hit or miss. Atlas, Proto 1K, and Bachmann Spectrum (NOT the basic line) are pretty good compromises between cost, detail, and operating characteristics.
Connecticut Valley Railroad A Branch of the New York, New Haven, and Hartford
"If you think you can do a thing or think you can't do a thing, you're right." -- Henry Ford
okay thank's i think i will how bad are the athearn engiens i really want a sd60m with dcc and sound on it and athear genissi has them in norfolk and southern my railroad of choice. and well it's a 4x8 table that im currently useign a 8 foot long by 1.5 foot section of for my switchign layout i kidn of want to dfigureo ut how to make it better thanks' zach.
Athearns aren't "bad", they're hit or miss. Some of them run very nicely, some have issues.
I would consider adding "wings" to your table so that you make an L or C shape. This will allow you to expand your layout down the sides. Eventually, you can make a loop around the outside of the room, if that suits.
well what i was thinkigng was addign another foot to the 4x8 width wise to make it 5x8 so i can fit a 24inche radius curve on it and somehow incoreate hte switchign layout into ti as a modual somehow on a seprate pice so i would have a switch yard. i want to be able to jsutlet the train rool sicne my little sister likes watching the trains go aroudn and around. ille keep the hit and miss into account while buyign an engine. form atheran might see if i can find a train shop aroudn here so i coudl test drive it and know it will work pretty good would that be a good diea thank's zach.
CSX17 well what i was thinkigng was addign another foot to the 4x8 width wise to make it 5x8 so i can fit a 24inche radius curve on it and somehow incoreate hte switchign layout into ti as a modual somehow on a seprate pice so i would have a switch yard. i want to be able to jsutlet the train rool sicne my little sister likes watching the trains go aroudn and around. ille keep the hit and miss into account while buyign an engine. form atheran might see if i can find a train shop aroudn here so i coudl test drive it and know it will work pretty good would that be a good diea thank's zach.
I don't know what your room dimensions are, or if this is a possibility for you or not-- but let me throw it out there anyway...
When many people think of building a first (or second) layout, they think of getting a sheet of plywood (4x8) to do it. It sounds like you have a 5x9 space, but otherwise, it's essentially the same idea. If you have (or can make) the space, perhaps you would like to consider an alternative idea... creating a "shelf" layout instead.
One of the great advantages of a shelf layout is that you can pack a lot of layout into a relatively small space *and* use the space, underneath-- and perhaps overhead-- for other stuff. So for someone who is "Space-challenged", it can be a good alternative to the usual 4x8 "roundy-round".
Shelf layouts do not have to be deep-- in fact, it's generally better if they are not. You can make a great layout that's anywhere from 12 inches to say 30 inches deep. It's not a good idea to go much deeper than that due to difficulties reaching things at the back of the layout-- which, of course, is where all the problems *will* occur...
The other thing about shelf layouts is that you can make them out of readily-obtainable, lightweight materials that are (in many people's opinion) easier to work with than wood. For example, you can go to your nearby home supply store and purchase double-track shelf brackets and supports for a few bucks each. I personally recommend getting the 6-footers and cutting them up into 3 sections, it's cheaper that way.
Then you can buy some sheets of that 2-inch pink foam, which comes in 2-ft by 4-ft sections, and lay that on top of the shelf brackets. Some folks suggest putting a thin layer of wood underneath for support-- that's not a bad idea either, but the 2 inch foam is pretty strong as long as you support it underneath and don't try to sit or stand on it... DON'T do it with anything less than the 2 inch stuff though, or you will have problems.
If you want wood support underneath, there's a couple of easy ways. If you don't mind sawing up plywood, that's the simplest method. You don't need much, 1/2 or 3/4 inch plywood cut into strips will work fine. Just lay them across your shelf brackets and interleave them, and then put your foam on top of that.
Alternately, you could use dimensional lumber, such as the 1x3 or 1x4 (or even 1x2) white pine, and lay them across the brackets. I did that for years and it worked fine. You'll probably want to secure it to the brackets though if you want it to be permanent or semi-permanent. The brackets have screw holes in them which you can use to secure the wood. You can use liquid nails (the kind "for projects") or latex caulk to secure the foam to the wood.
Whether or not you have space to go all the way around the room, I have no idea-- only you know that. If you do and want to connect the ends, that's up to you. But you can make a very nice switching layout based on the shelf concept. A lot of people make layouts like that for their "real", "permanent" layouts. If you're a Model Railroad magazine subscriber, you can check out their Track Plan Database (see the top of this page for the link) where you can review lots of other people's layout plans to get ideas for your own.
And don't forget that you can build a shelf layout at a height that gives you plenty of room underneath for other things-- many people strongly suggest you build a layout at eye level anyway, which is typically in the 50-58 inch range, depending on you and your height. You can build shelves or cabinets underneath the layout for storage, or perhaps a workbench-- keep in mind though that you probably don't want it to come out more than the layout into the room, or you'll probably have troubles operating and maintaining your railroad due to the stuff in the way.
Another benefit of the shelf layout is that they typically don't have a lot of severe curves, which means that you aren't as concerned about the wheelbase of the cars and locos either. Except at corners, which tend to be 90 degree angles, the rest of the layout is typically pretty straight, since its built on a shelf. Doesn't have to be *totally* straight of course, but the curves, when there are any, typically have a larger radius (assuming you're using FLEX track) -- big enough that it doesn't matter what cars or locos you run. Even the corner curves don't have to be that bad. You can lay tolerable curves that most equipment will handle fine, if you're using flex track.
Adding that extra foot of width may make the difference between "stretching" and "unreachable". My advise would be never go wider than 4', and then only if you can access it from both sides.
You may have noticed, but a lot of us are trying to get you to think loop around the room, not around one table top. Any time you can see both the front and rear of your train on opposite sides of the layout tends to diminish the suspension of disbelief.
Also, maybe I missed something, but why are you stuck on buying an Athearn? Was there a particular model you liked? Not that I'm trying to bash Athearn, but in my opinion (and it's ONLY my opinion), there are better options in the same price range.
thank's yall for the advice on tryign ot go from a a table layout to a aroudn hte room layout but it's in my bedroom and i don't have the space for it kind of a small room and my walls cant' be drilledn into also and i dont' want to spend the money on extra wood for bench work when i can add a foot to what i have and have a width taht is suitable and i have acess to three side's two of hte logn side's and one of the short oene's. An my reason for the athearn genissis loco is i want one of the new sd70ace's ane then when they come out i want a sd70m-2 and athearn is the only companies i knw of makignthese models from my knowlege very slim though so if there are another company making these locos point me to it thank's zach.
you could do 1 foot wide by 3 foot long moduals or a swiching layout
robert aldrich
n scale i know and the alco line plus great northern
CSX17 thank's yall for the advice on tryign ot go from a a table layout to a aroudn hte room layout but it's in my bedroom and i don't have the space for it kind of a small room and my walls cant' be drilledn into also and i dont' want to spend the money on extra wood for bench work when i can add a foot to what i have and have a width taht is suitable and i have acess to three side's two of hte logn side's and one of the short oene's. An my reason for the athearn genissis loco is i want one of the new sd70ace's ane then when they come out i want a sd70m-2 and athearn is the only companies i knw of makignthese models from my knowlege very slim though so if there are another company making these locos point me to it thank's zach.
You don't *have* to drill in the walls-- that's just one idea. If that's not a possibility, just don't use shelf brackets. Another perfectly doable way to achieve the layout I described, would be to get some book shelves or cabinets-- say somewhere between 48-60 inches high (4 or 5 feet), whatever height is comfortable for you, and then simply place the shelf layout on top of them. If you want to secure it to the shelves, that's doable, or not-- as you choose. The previous respondent suggested "modules", that would indeed be a great way to do it-- not only could you have a nice shelf / modular layout *now*, but you would also likely be able to reuse them again in another layout in the future.
The major advantages of this concept is that it gives you the maximum amount of space for your layout *without* taking up all your room-- the room underneath (and possibly overhead) of the layout is still available for other uses-- storage perhaps, as I've suggested. Something else if you'd rather. It gives you a "longer run", more "switching opportunities", and a better "reach-in" distance. It also minimizes (pretty much eliminates, in fact) the problems you would otherwise face with the wheelbase (overall length, and truck type) on a layout with sharper turns (curve radius). And you would *still* have the majority of that *other* 4x8 space that you were originally talking about available for something else.
Do you have a dresser in your bedroom? Is it somewhere in the 4-5 foot tall range? If so, that could be one of your layout supports. How about a bookshelf? Or a cabinet? Are they in the 4-5 foot tall range? If so, more supports *already* in your room. Even if they are not all the same height, it's simple enough to construct some "cribbing" of some sort that would match up the distance. Perhaps adding a smaller shelf or cabinet, or heck-- even using some thick books-- I've done that before. Works fine as long as you don't accidentally knock it over (ask me how I know that... )
Heck, when I was in school, one of my layouts was a pair of 1x12 pine boards, one 8 feet long, the other 6 feet long, put together in an 'L' shape and the track simply nailed to the top of it. I put it on top of my dresser and some bookshelves that were in the room and jacked up the difference by shoving some books under it. It wasn't pretty, but it was a layout, and I had some fun with it.
I guess the thing that myself and the others are trying to say is that there's nearly always a way to build a layout somehow. And often, if you allow yourself to think outside the box-- or in this case, the 4x8 sheet of plywood, there are creative ways to do it so that you can maximize your layout potential and minimize its impact on the rest of your space.
My uncle, when I was a little kid-- he's the one who got me started in Model Railroading-- he had his layout in his room. And it was a pretty small room. It was pretty high up off the ground-- I was about 4 or 5, so it seemed really tall to me at the time. And it was constructed in a more-or-less modular fashion out of 1x3 lumber (maybe 1x4) and topped with 1/4 inch plywood. It had long spindly legs that held it up over top of everything else in his room. It ran all the way around the walls. And the thing that always amused me (remember I was 4 :-) is that he even had his *bed* underneath it. To this day I have fond memories of being in his room watching the trains go on his layout.
If you want trains, there's always a way!
okay sound's good to me where can i get these book shelves or cabinet's taht are this tall at for a cheap price. im likeing the idea of not beign restricted to smal radius turn's and beign able to run what i want to run equipment wise and have a decetn room for switching and scenery thank's for the help and any ideas on where i can said bookshelved and cabinet's thanks zach.