I am starting a 4X6 HO layout with the base being foam. I am using Woodland Scenics Track Bed for the roadbed. Once the track bed is attached to the foam, is there anything needed before laying the track? I heard somewhere that putting varnish on the track bed is good.
Thanks,
John
If you are talking about the black foam roadbed, then, no. You don't need to put anything on it, as it will not dry out like cork.
I am also using the WS black foam roadbed on blue foam. I glued it down with clear latex caulk and let it dry. Then I glued the track to the foam roadbed, also with clear latex caulk. I spread it thin on the roadbed and held the track in place with pins and weights over night, then removed the pins as well as the weights.
Elmer.
The above is my opinion, from an active and experienced Model Railroader in N scale and HO since 1961.
(Modeling Freelance, Eastern US, HO scale, in 1962, with NCE DCC for locomotive control and a stand alone LocoNet for block detection and signals.) http://waynes-trains.com/ at home, and N scale at the Club.
I do it the same way. When you ballast the black color will be covered. I find the foam much easier to work with than cork.
Springfield PA
I use Woodland Scenics Foam Track Bed exclusively on my layout. It requires no special preparation or follow up. In other words, it is ready to go right out of the box.
One word of caution though. If you nail your track to the road bed, as I do, be careful not to drive the nail too deep because the foam is very forgiving and will give way easily, resulting in dips in the track work.
Rich
Alton Junction
I agree with the others. I find the WS track bed to be a very user friendly product. I use gray latex adhesive caulk both to glue the roadbed to the scenery and to glue the track to the roadbed. You only need a very thin coat (I put a small bead on, then use one of those fake credit cards that you get in the mail to spread it out. Even if some shows through the ballast, the gray blends with the ballast.
Connecticut Valley Railroad A Branch of the New York, New Haven, and Hartford
"If you think you can do a thing or think you can't do a thing, you're right." -- Henry Ford
I helped a friend build his layout and didn't enjoy working with the stuff at all. While it has decent sound-deadening qualities, and is easy to use, it's too soft to hold spikes well and is therefore not very useful when you need to actually hold the track in place. If you choose to glue the track in place, I can't see it being very easy to make even minor realignments without ripping up the roadbed once the glue/caulk has set. This same drawback also makes it difficult to securely mount ground throws, such as those offered by Caboose Industries, and it's also difficult to transition from mainline track with roadbed to secondary track without roadbed. For those areas, we resorted to cork, which is easily sanded to accomplish this task. The foam roadbed gets two big from me.
Wayne
doctorwayne The foam roadbed gets two big from me.
The foam roadbed gets two big from me.
I hate this stuff too. It's so soft that applying any pressure to it can easily deform track or crack the ballast loose. Busted up ballast is a common affliction on layouts using the WS foam roadbed.
For people using the WS foam, some kind of adhesive is preferable to track nails to avoid as much track deformation as possible.
Rob Spangler
Duplicate post
I guess photos of a layout where WS foam roadbed and caulk were used and a change made after construction began isn;t enough to convince peopel that you CAN EASILY remove and replace track that has been put in place with caulk. LATEX caulk, no silicon. I gurantee you I did not waste a pair of $13 turnouts when I decided to remove a siding on my old layout. They went right in elsewhere. Biggest issue I think people have with the caulk is they put down WAY too much.In most places if I did it right, you can barely see that there's anything there other than it's snihy and tacky if you touch it. That's PLENTY to hold the track securely in place. Stronger glues, and using enough of whatever adhesive to ooze up between the ties - yeah, that's going to be a problem to pop the track out and reuse it.
New materials, new methods. I can;t see ever using nails of any sort with the WS track bed, it's not meant for that.
I decided to go back to cork on my current layout, and wish I hadn't. Caulk works fine, but the overall results are far less smooth than my previous layout. With the long rolls of the WS roadbed, I had very few joints in the main line of the previous layout, basically every 20 linear feet. The end result was an ultra smooth running railroad.
--Randy
Modeling the Reading Railroad in the 1950's
Visit my web site at www.readingeastpenn.com for construction updates, DCC Info, and more.
You're correct, Randy; the foam roadbed isn't intended for use with nails - precisely the reason I found it unsuitable, especially when installing ground throws. As for removing track, I'm surprised that it doesn't rip the foam, but I'll take your word for it that it's possible. However, I was talking about merely repositioning areas of track where the alignment wasn't exactly what was intended, especially after all of the rail joiners are soldered in place: with nails, you simply pull them, nudge the track into position, then re-spike.
I personally found the biggest drawback of foam to be in making a transition from full thickness roadbed to none, as where you'd have a siding or yard area. On my friend's layout, this doesn't occur too much, but on my own it's something that's seen all over the layout, with even some of the mainline laid directly on the plywood subroadbed.
I didn't find too many instances where the thickness of the cork varied enough to be noticeable, or where the subroadbed caused bumps in the cork, but a couple of passes with some coarse sandpaper before track laying ensured smooth running.
I just completed my track laying, I used WS foam roadbed over foam board. I put it down using low temp hot melt glue and attached the track on the foam roadbed with caulk. Nothing else was needed. I am now in the process of ballasting the track. Good Luck. If you use a glue gun make sure it is a low temp gun, or it will melt the foam.
I guess the moral of the story is to understand the product you're working with.
I don't think anyone would advocate using WS track bed with nails.... or any foam track bed, for that matter. You may have noticed that everyone who recommended the WS track bed also recommended a way to glue it down....
But as for pulling the stuff up once it's set with adhesive, and even ballast, 5 minutes and a little care with a putty knife does the trick nicely. I salvaged almost all of the roadbed from my first layout to use on my second.
And as far as ballast cracking being a "well-known problem", how come I have never heard of it before. I've certainly never experienced it, nor has anyone of my personal acquaintance. Perhaps those who had a problem didn't use enough ballast or enough adhesive.
I didn't on this layout, but on my previosu one, all my sidings and the yard wre on WS N scale foam, the main on the HO stuff. A couple of peices of shirt carboard made a transition ramp, and believe it or not you CAN sand the stuff. To verify the transitionw asn't too steep, I used a 4-8-4 - no derailments, no teeter-totter effect, just rolled right on. There's no reason why this couldn't have continued down to the plain foam level with no roadbed - I thought about it, and also using code 70 for those no-roadbed tracks to further accentuate the difference, but opted not to. I've seen the exact same thing done in cork, HO for the main, down to N scale cork for sidings, down to bare surface for the industry track.
ANd then with a foam top there's Bill Darnaby's method - rather than sand down the roadbed to for a gentle slope, cut into the foam. Make a shallow ramp in the foam that gets deeper as the siding progresses, at the end of the transition, the cut is as deep as the roadbed is high and it levels off onto bare surface.
Track
Latex caulk
Woodland Scenics roadbed
Plywood
...That's my layout from the top down. I recently made some changes and everything came up and went back down with no problems. Caulk should be spread tissue paper thin. I put a small bead down the middle and then smear it flat with a putty knife.
Dave
Lackawanna Route of the Phoebe Snow
I use Cork on the main and WS Foam bed on spurs and i nail it down with no problems,but when the train hits the Foam bed it is loud .
Russell
Thanks for the good advice and the wide ranging discussion. I going to secure the WS Foam bed using Liquid Nails for Projects and clear latex caulk to attached track to the WS Foam. I am sure there will be more questions as I move ahead with the layout.
Thanks again,
Hard to tell without a die by side comparison, but my previous layout with foam and no plywood, with WS foam raodbed, was quieter than the current one which has plywood udner the foam and cork roadbed. The plywood is probably the biggest culprit. The only noise on my old layout was the sssssssssss sound of the metal wheels rolling along. Caulk was used in both cases to fasten the roadbed to the foam and the track to the roadbed.
Ballast was not a problem, once I figured out that soapy water was not goign to work due to the hard water we have around here. The first ballast attempt did flake off easily, but that's because the soap and water never penetrated the surface and made only a crust. Once I hit on using alcohol to dilute things, and the glue got soaked all the way in, the ballast did not break loose when the track was pushed on.
Randy, I agree that plywood is a big culprit for noise. However, I have run trains on a 1/2' plywood surface with a Woodland Scenics Foam Track Bed for my roadbed, and there was little noise. When I added ballast, it seemed to dampen what little noise there was on the layout. But, when I glued the ballast down, the noise level increased significantly, Elmer's glue making for more noise than matte medium.
Not sure if my response came through. Thanks for all the advice and great discussion around this topic. I will attach the WS foam with Liquid Nails for Project and then use clear latex caulk for securing the track on the foam.
Again thanks, I am sure I will have more questions as building the layout goes forward.
JUst use the caulk all around, no need for liquid nails. Draw your track lines, then spread the caulk thin - you should clearly see your penci lines through the thin bead of caulk. Lay the track bed, stick a few pushpins in, particularly the ends so it down't curl up. Next day spread a thin layer of caulk on the track bed, and lay your track.
I may be biased, but I've had nothign but trouble with Liquid Nails products. Both using the "for Foamboard" stuff to attach extruded foam together, and using one of the ones that said it was for attaching things to tile, like in the bathroom, and actually using it for the intended purpose (not adapting something for model railroad use) and a week later it STILL hadn;t set up. The foamboard stuff, it dried, with plenty of weight stacked on top, until I went to move the attached pieces. It came apart like it was brittle plastic - it was solidly adhered to the foam on both sides but just snapped off, even though it was totally dry and hard. Gonna take a lot of convincing before I ever buy one of their products for whatever the purpose.
I opted for extruded foam for a layout base. then I used caulk to secure the WS foam roadbed OR the "craft foam sheets" from AC Moore for the yard area and used caulk to secure the track to the WS faom or craft foam roadbed.
There are staunch supporters of both WS Foam and for Cork.
There are those who oppose the other as well.
There is no right or wrong answer here.
Cork can dry out and crumble, perhaps that is why you heard of varnishing it first. MAny use sheet cork for yard areas. SOme even suggest {gasp} soaking the cork in water to make it more flexible.
The WS foam some just don't like and nails are not good for it. SHeet craft foam is about the exact right thing needed for large areas I found.
I found that the WS was each to work with and cut and the craft foam easy to cut as well.
It is your choice. Go with what you want.
-G .
Just my thoughts, ideas, opinions and experiences. Others may vary.
HO and N Scale.
After long and careful thought, they have convinced me. I have come to the conclusion that they are right. The aliens did it.
galaxy Cork can dry out and crumble, perhaps that is why you heard of varnishing it first. MAny use sheet cork for yard areas. SOme even suggest {gasp} soaking the cork in water to make it more flexible.
How much of a problem is that with cork drying out and crumbling?
What is the life expectancy of cork as roadbed?
Does varnish extend the life expectancy? Soaking in water? Any other techniques?
What's interesting about cork is I have some that was stored in my mom's attic, which is not heated or cooled, and is uninsulated. It's probably nearly as old as I am (over 40). Some is dried and crumbly, but some is still nice and flexible. I have some other that is less than 20 years old, nearly all of that is dried and stiff and just snaps if you try to bend it.
In a more controlled environment, plus covered with ballast and glue, the cork should last longer.
After using WS and going back to cork, next time it will be WS, if it's still around. About the only thing easier with cork was around turnouts, and that's because I cheated and bought those turnout pads.