That CMR lift bridge kit is really nice. In fact,CMR makes a lot of nice stuff. (They are at the Timmonium show every year) I would LOVE for them to build a Richmond VA train station for me. But I doubt I have the $$$ for a custom model service they offer. I started scratch building one, but then I gave up about 10% the way through it.
It's static display though. (In otherwords, the lift mechanism is just for looks) I bet I could rig something up to get it to work though. :-) It depends on if there are "guide" rails for the bridge to raise up and down on to keep it in alignment.
Don - Specializing in layout DC->DCC conversions
Modeling C&O transition era and steel industries There's Nothing Like Big Steam!
I am making good progress on the painting and assembly of the bascule bridge, and I hope to post some photos of this work in progress this weekend.
The Walthers Cornerstone Bascule Bridge is based on the Baltimore & Ohio Chicago Terminal (B&OCT) prototype constructed in Chicago during the 1920s, spanning the south branch of the Chicago River just north of 16th Street. It is a single leaf bascule bridge designed by the Strauss Bascule Bridge Co. of Chicago.
For anyone who may be more interested in the detail, here is a link to an excellent 33-page document including some wonderful drawings of the bascule bridge in motion on page 19 of the document:
http://www.historicbridges.org/illinois/sbrr/haer-il-157.pdf
Rich
Alton Junction
DigitalGriffin Another thing, the motor mount plates are slide in place between 8 thin pegs which hold it there. When I opened my kit up, two of the pegs snapped off. I super glued mine back in place. (Luckily they were still in the box)
Another thing, the motor mount plates are slide in place between 8 thin pegs which hold it there. When I opened my kit up, two of the pegs snapped off. I super glued mine back in place. (Luckily they were still in the box)
DG,
This is very interesting. I recall reading this when you first posted it on 2-4-11. Now, it is 2-13-11, and I am in the process of assembling the motor and the gears on the metal rods. Two of those 8 thin pegs are simply missing from the floor of the machine shed where the motor is mounted. I did not break them off but, like your kit, they were laying in the bottom of the box along with some loose parts for the motor mounts. Probably all due to poor packaging design.
I have now completed all of the sub assemblies. The next step is to complete the gear work and switching assembly. Then, the sub assemblies must be connected together to finish the construction of the bascule bridge.
I did run into one obstacle. The plastic gears need to be inserted into specific spots on the metal rods (shafts). However, the center hole on the gears was small enough that I simply could not force the gears into place on the metal rods. Finally, in desperation, I took a small tool and lightly "reamed" the hole in the center of the gear. That worked and I got the gear on the shaft. However, while the gear did not spin freely, it did slip on the shaft instead of turning the shaft. Not good. So, I lightly roughed up the shaft with a metal file, then coated the spot for the gear with CA adhesive and slipped the gear into place. After letting the glue dry for a few hours, I then placed epoxy on either side of the gear where it touches the shaft and let the epoxy cure overnight. That worked and the gears are now firmly in place.
Here are some photos of the sub assemblies.
The first photo is the truss bridge superstructure:
The second photo is the rocking truss. This rocking truss rotates to lift and lower the truss bridge:
The third photo is the walking beam support shown on the left which links the rocking truss to the truss brdige superstructure. The strut is the assembly shown on the right which provides additional support to the rocking truss and stabilizes the counterweight:
The fourth photo is the A-frame which is the only fixed portion of the bridge, supporting the rocking truss and walking beam support:
The fifth photo is the counterweight which is held in place by the rocking truss and stabilized by the strut:
Not shown in these photos are two sub assemblies that I have yet to complete (1) the machine shed which house the motor and main gear assembly and (2) the bridge tender's house which sits astride the A-frame.
I will provide photos later of the completed bascule bridge and a short video of the bridge in operation.
After 12 days of constant painting, gluing and assembling, I have reached the point where I can post a photo of the nearly completed bascule bridge, although I still need to put the staircases and handrails on the bridge tender house.
HobbyDr pointed out in an earlier reply that this model is one that absolutely, positively, has to be built exactly in the order the instructions require. And it isn't a 'pick-up/put-down' project. Only start a step if you have the time to completely finish. It just required a lot of concentration. His words, not mine. But, truer words were never spoken.
I got sidetracked when I had to epoxy the plastic gears on the metal rods. When I got back to the assembly process, I tried to work from memory instead of re-reading the instructions, and I paid the price. I made about four or five mistakes that had to be corrected before I got back on track.
Next up is the electronics wiring to make the bridge operational. I have already got it to operate, but I need to finalize the electronics, then I will post a video.
Rich, It looks really nice. Can't wait to see it operate in the video. The more pain you endure building something, the more satisfaction you get in the end, in my experiences.
I've seen these models operate before and they are really something to watch!
Jerry
I have reached an impasse, so I am posting this in the hopes that someone can help me with my current problem.
When I first tested the electronics on Friday afternoon, the bridge would jam halfway up in the lift process. So I disconnected the racks that hold the gear boxes and tried to raise the bridge manually. It still jammed at the same spot.
After a few hours of tinkering, I realized that I had put the walking beam support in place backwards. So, I removed the metal rods and reversed the walking beam support, then re-inserted the rods.
Once I did that, the bridge could be manually lifted all the way up, so putting the support in the correct way solved the jamming problem. However, I could no longer lift the bridge electronically with the racks back in place and the motor operating. I could lift the bridge electronically if I helped it along with my fingers but not on its own.
If I disconnect the racks from the bridge, the gears pull the racks back, so the bridge should lift when the racks are connected, but no go. I looked at the gears and the motor shaft. When the racks are connected to the bridge, the gears spin but the motors shaft does not. If I disconnect the racks from the bridge, the gears spin, the motor shaft turns, and the racks retract as they are supposed to do.
So, for some reason, with the racks connected to the bridge, the bridge will not lift. Yet, before I solved the jamming problem by correctly installing the walking beam support, the bridge did lift electronically.
I am a wit's end with this latest problem.
Incidentally, the bridge lowers perfectly every time electronically from an upright position.
Any thoughts, comments, advice?
Rich,
In reply to Your problem. Try to remove one of the racks from the bridge and then try to lift it
I was able to lift mine with just one rack on and no counter weight on It sounds like one of the racks
is binding GOOD LUCK FRANK
zstripe Rich, In reply to Your problem. Try to remove one of the racks from the bridge and then try to lift it I was able to lift mine with just one rack on and no counter weight on It sounds like one of the racks is binding GOOD LUCK FRANK
Frank,
Thanks for the suggestion. I tried it, removing one rack from the bridge and then the other. Neither worked with the other released.
I have pretty much tried everything at this point. Removed all of the connecting rods and tried slightly smaller ones (less diameter). That didn't help either. There is no binding in the moving parts of the bridge. I removed the counterweight. That did not help.
I am ready to throw in the towel. Nothing works.
If I give the bridge some assistance with my fingers, the motor and gear works will lift the bridge. But as soon as I stop lending assistance, the bridge stops lifting. If I disconnect the racks from the bridge, the racks continue to draw back as power is applied like they should, but not if they are re-attached to the bridge. It is as if the motor cannot provide enough power to lift the bridge. Or, that the racks are not pulling the bridge up. I am clueless.
Curiously, though, the bridge lowers flawlessly when power is applied in the opposite direction.
HELP!
Maybe you need to add a little more to the counter-weight.
Don
HobbyDr's Workbench
Not sure if someone else mentioned this earlier, but..... Is it possible that the 6V battery just doesn't have 6V to give? If you have a DC powerpack, find the setting for 6 volts (with a meter of course) and try that for a power source. If that does the trick, then I would get TWO 6 V batteries and hook them up in parallel (I believe that is correct - again test with a meter) and that should do it.
Of course its also possible that the motor just doesn't cut it. I don't know how you would test that, but I am sure others on the site would know.
It seems like binding is pretty much ruled out as the source of the problem, so power (lack thereof) is IMHO the prime suspect.
ENJOY !!!!!
ENJOY !
Mobilman44
Living in southeast Texas, formerly modeling the "postwar" Santa Fe and Illinois Central
After reading MOBILMANS post I have the same feeling that the motor doesnt have the power to
lift the bridge by itself. Iwas thinking about that yesterday while watching the race Perhaps You have
a bad motor I have had no problems with mine and it is the same as yours. Maybe thats why they
switched to 12 volts
AGAIN GOOD LUCK FRANK
Hi. I've been following this thread from the start, as I also have one of these to build. I think mine is an early version. ( Love your photos ).
I wonder if just adding more power is only going to mask some other problem, and think Don may be on to something. The bridge should be neutral balance for most of its travel, and a flea-power motor should move it ok.
I'd vote to play with more weight in the counterweight, and check that the racks are identical so the gears don't get a bit out of step as they go along them.
Thanks to all for this discussion; I'm happy I haven't started building this thing yet.
Have fun, George
Hi Guys,
Here is the latest update.
First of all, and I mean this positively, you guys are all smarter than me. I despaired and was ready to give up, but I am glad that I asked for help.
I have added more weight to the counterweight, and that has solved the problem. Or, maybe it has masked the problem.
Walthers instructions call for adding 5 ounces of weight to the counterweight, and I did exactly that. However, when the bridge wouldn't lift under its own power, I started adding weight till I found just the right amount. It took 6.5 ounces of additional weight, so the required weight is 11.5 ounces, nearly 3/4 of a pound.
That bothers me. That is more than twice what Walthers suggests. I now suspect the power source. I am using a 6 volt lantern battery, and the measured output on my volt meter is 6.16 volts. But who's to say if 6 volts are reaching the motor. Maybe my wiring is too high a gauge. So, I will be investigating alternative power sources. Walthers does warn the modeler not to exceed 6 volts or the motor may burn out.
Incidentally, I do have the older version with the 6 volt motor and the reed switch. The reed switch, as others have indicated, is next to useless. I am getting help from another forum member with an alternative approach that includes micro switches. I will report back on the results. Meanwhile, I am basically operating the reed switch with my fingers.
George, good suggestion on the racks. I will look more closely to be certain that I have them aligned in sync with one another.
Thanks to everyone for all of your contributions, suggestions and advice.
I'll be back.
zstripe RICH; In regards to the counter weight on the Bascule Bridge leave the hatch cover off the weight and after You have it on the Bridge take a funnel and add sand to it about half full. That is what I did to mine and it works perfect. I had it since they first came out. HAVE FUN FRANK
RICH;
In regards to the counter weight on the Bascule Bridge leave the hatch cover off the weight
and after You have it on the Bridge take a funnel and add sand to it about half full. That is what
I did to mine and it works perfect. I had it since they first came out.
HAVE FUN FRANK
I only wish that I had seen your comment on the sand before I first added the lead weights.
Incidentally, do you have any problems with that reed switch?
In regards to the reed switch. I didnt use it. I also found it to be useless. I used a simple dpdt
center off switch to control it. It works fine. Im the only one controling it. so it works for me.
By the way if you would like another challenge. Try the walters swing bridge double track. Its a little
pricey but fun to build. It comes with micro switchs. and you have to buy the motor separate. also
a 300to1 12volt that also works great that one will operate on its own.By the way I was born and raised in chicago 1946 now live in the subs for the last 32 yrs glad to hear you got it going.
zstripe Rich, In regards to the reed switch. I didnt use it. I also found it to be useless. I used a simple dpdt center off switch to control it. It works fine. Im the only one controling it. so it works for me. By the way if you would like another challenge. Try the walters swing bridge double track. Its a little pricey but fun to build. It comes with micro switchs. and you have to buy the motor separate. also a 300to1 12volt that also works great that one will operate on its own.By the way I was born and raised in chicago 1946 now live in the subs for the last 32 yrs glad to hear you got it going. HAVE FUN FRANK
Very interesting. So, you just start and stop the switch manually?
Uhh, I think I will take a pass on the swing bridge. This project both tested and exhausted me. LOL
I took the switch out of the unit and just used the motor leads to the center leads of the switch,
and the other switch leads in criscross to power,and used Radio shack red and green 12vdc 60ma
bulbs to the switch running on 6v,used a 6v 300ma walwart solely for power incorperated in my
control panel. By the way,IM a DC user with some BLI sound engines with zebra stripe santa fes
I also answered the other post. TAKE CARE FRANK
Well, I am happy to report that I have finally got the bascule bridge to operate flawlessly. The clincher was adding a drop of oil on the metal connecting rods at each pivot point. Because the metal rods fit so tightly inside the plastic parts, there is a lot of friction that impedes smooth operation during the lifting and lowering process.
As soon as I get a chance to permanently install the additional required weight inside the counterweight, I will provide a short video of the bridge in operation.
But for now, I thought that it might be useful to post a checklist of steps to be followed to successfully build and operate the Walthers Cornerstone Bascule Bridge.
1. Read the instructions thoroughly and completely and understand those instructions fully.
2. Do not lose track of the part numbers. If you remove parts from the sprue, label loose parts with their respective numbers. Many paired parts look similar, but there are subtle differences. Others, including myself, have reported some warped parts, but they can be straightened. The instructions mention some parts but don't say where they go. Other parts are illustrated but otherwise not discussed in the instructions. Some parts are numbered one way and described by other parts numbers. Some parts have the same number. Sort all of this out at the beginning as best you can.
3. Paint parts as you go taking care not to paint surfaces that are to be glued. Painting the bridge after it is fully assembled, or after a subassembly is completed, is difficult because of the number of surfaces, some of which are not easily accessible.
4. There are 7 steps. Do not start a step unless and until you are prepared to complete the step. There are a lot of things to do within each step so be prepared to commit a fair amount of time to painting and assembly.
5. Follow the step-by-step instructions methodically. Assembling parts out of order will cause later problems.
6. Step 1, the assembly of the truss bridge superstructure, is the easiest step. Just paint and glue together the various parts of this subassembly.
7. Step 2 is the assembly of the gears and shafts (metal rods). The gears are hard to get on the rods because the center holes on the gears are smaller in diameter than the 5/64" rods. Resist the temptation to ream the holes larger or to lubricate the rods. The result will be slipping gears that pin too loosely. Consider adding 2-part epoxy on each side of the gears where they touch the rods so that the gears will not spin freely once the assembly is completed. After the bridge is fully assembled, lightly lube the gears with appropriate (e.g., Labelle) gear lube.
8. Step 3 is the assembly of the A-frame and machine shed. Be careful and follow the steps in order. The gear boxes are tight fits, so have small clamps available to hold them in place once glued. The gear boxes fit onto a pair of toothed racks. Place each gear box in the same spot on each rack. This is crucial so that the racks are aligned propery and provide a square fit.
9. Step 4 is the assembly of the walking beam and walking beam support. Install the walking beam support in the right direction. Otherwise, the bridge will not fully lift, jamming if the support is installed backwards or upside down. The support looks the same from end to end at first glance, but study the drawing and install it correctly.
10. Step 4 is also the assembly of the counterweight, Use sand to fill the counterweight, not lead weights as I did, because you may need to add or subtract weight at the end of the assembly. Do not glue on the hatch until you are satisfied with the operation of the bridge. Once the bridge is fully assembled, you will need to release the racks to take tension off the gear works and allow the bridge to be moved up and down manually. With the racks released, add or subtract weight until the bridge begins to lift up on its own. That is the proper amount of weight.
11. Step 5 is the final assembly of the entire bridge works. Be careful not to bend the connecting rods ads you insert them in the pivot points. Add a drop of oil (e.g., Labelle Medium Oil) to each pivot point to ensure smooth and flawless movement up and down so that the bridge easily lifts and lowers.
12. Step 6 is the installation of the staircases and handrails on the bridge tender house. This is an easy step to complete.
13. Step 7 is the final step involving the electronics. Although some suggest that the 6 volt motor is inadequate, it seemed fine to me. I see no reason to replace it with a 12 volt motor. However, the Walthers-supplied reed switch is useless. Replace it with a micro switch or wire a Center Off DPDT switch directly to the motor. The instructions caution the user to limit the power source to 6 volts. I used a 6 volt lantern battery, and that worked quite well.
Good luck to all who attempt to build this bridge. It can be done, but it requires care and patience and attention to detail. The gears are the biggest problem. Make sure that they fit tightly and do not slip. Be sure to apply a drop of light oil to each pivot point to facilitate movement. Lastly, be sure to thoroughly test the counterweight to determine the exact amount of weight required. The instructions say to add 5 ounces, but I found that amount totally inadequate.
Hope this all helps.
Glad your bridge is working well. I am going back into the gear box and see if I can secure the main shaft gear problem as per my first post. From the other posts it is obvious that quality control at the manufacturer of these kits was slack, to say the least. You give exellent advice to those who are just starting this kit. Let me add that trial assembly of the truss halves is very helpful, as mine had considerable misalignment of the pins- receiver holes. If a new main gear shaft must be made[mine was bent] be very careful to keep a tight fit and glue the gear to the shaft as you did. Now, as I am a glutton for punishment, I would like to kit bash/ scratch build a version of this bascule type where the counter weights are carried outboard of the trunions on the counterweight arms. This type is shown on page 99 of the Bridge and Trestle Handbook by Paul Mallery, 1976 edition. Any thoughts on this project? I am going to start looking for close up details of the A-frames and counterweight construction on this version.
That's a great job of summarizing your efforts! Thanks for posting it for all to see. I'll keep it available when I start assembling my baby. I figured this would be a complicated build, but never imagined it to be quite so much.
I look forward to seeing the video.
George
barbender If a new main gear shaft must be made[mine was bent] be very careful to keep a tight fit and glue the gear to the shaft as you did. Now, as I am a glutton for punishment, I would like to kit bash/ scratch build a version of this bascule type where the counter weights are carried outboard of the trunions on the counterweight arms. This type is shown on page 99 of the Bridge and Trestle Handbook by Paul Mallery, 1976 edition. Any thoughts on this project? I am going to start looking for close up details of the A-frames and counterweight construction on this version. barbender , I don't have that book, so it is hard to comment, and an engineer I am not. However, the concept of the counterweight and its placement is beautifully explained and discussed on pages 16 to 21 of the following document. http://www.historicbridges.org/illinois/sbrr/haer-il-157.pdf The Strauss heel-trunnion single leaf bascule bridge discussed in this document is the 16th Street bridge in Chicago that Walthers modeled its bascule bridge after. Rich
If a new main gear shaft must be made[mine was bent] be very careful to keep a tight fit and glue the gear to the shaft as you did. Now, as I am a glutton for punishment, I would like to kit bash/ scratch build a version of this bascule type where the counter weights are carried outboard of the trunions on the counterweight arms. This type is shown on page 99 of the Bridge and Trestle Handbook by Paul Mallery, 1976 edition. Any thoughts on this project? I am going to start looking for close up details of the A-frames and counterweight construction on this version.
barbender ,
I don't have that book, so it is hard to comment, and an engineer I am not. However, the concept of the counterweight and its placement is beautifully explained and discussed on pages 16 to 21 of the following document.
The Strauss heel-trunnion single leaf bascule bridge discussed in this document is the 16th Street bridge in Chicago that Walthers modeled its bascule bridge after.
Here it the video of the bascule bridge in operation, first lifting, then lowering.
My next step is to get this big guy installed on my lift out section.
watch?v=hRSWbWNVTQA
Very nice Rich. Your efforts really paid off with a smoothly lifting mechanism. Can't wait to see the final installation.
Joe
Great job, look forward to seeing it installed!!
I just got your email. Very well done Rich. I think it's even smoother than mine.
Very nice Rich, action looks real smooth. I now have full travel on my bridge. I had to cut an access port in the main gear side end wall and glue the gear to the shaft. Also had to sand down the width of the top of the rack gear beam. That took care of the binding. To anyone building this kit, it really is worth the effort. You have to see-hear it move up close to appreciate it. My blood pressure is back to normal, so I think I'll tackle the swing bridge next. Rich, I am looking foward to seeing your bridge in place on your layout. I now have three bridges, no layout.
I admire your perservence on this project, Rich. It's inspiring me to get back to work on mine. Congratulations.
barbender Very nice Rich, action looks real smooth. I now have full travel on my bridge. I had to cut an access port in the main gear side end wall and glue the gear to the shaft. Also had to sand down the width of the top of the rack gear beam. That took care of the binding.
Very nice Rich, action looks real smooth. I now have full travel on my bridge. I had to cut an access port in the main gear side end wall and glue the gear to the shaft. Also had to sand down the width of the top of the rack gear beam. That took care of the binding.
barbender,
You make a good point about the top of the racks that hold the gear boxes. I may have to go back and amend my Checklist to include a comment or two on this point.
As I struggled to get the bridge to consistently lift without binding, I did notice that one source of binding seemed to be the top of each rack, probably due to the relative lack of stiffness of the plastic. Plus, plastic on plastic for moving parts can be problematic.
Sanding is a good idea. I haven't done anything yet, but I have considered applying graphite or a silicone stick to lubricate the racks and minimize friction. That, along with applying a drop of light oil on each pivot point is crucial to trouble free operation.
I should amend an earlier statement that I made about having to add extra weight to the counterweight.
I became concerned about the amount of added weight because I noticed that the motor was making a squeaking sound but only when the bridge was lowering, indicating excess weight in the counterweight.
So, I started over with the additional weight, but this time I had oiled the pivot points which I had not done previously when I had first added weight. I also smeared a drop of light oil on each rack with my finger.
As a result, I only needed about 1/2 to 2/3 of the additional weight than I first thought that I needed. And, the squeaking sound of the motor stopped, indicating that it was no longer stressed by excess weight.