I am planning on putting an oval under the christmas tree and I want to setup a steam locomotive with a set of passenger cars behind it. I have a 22" radius oval and it's definitely a no go. Guy at the hobby shop said 26" minimum. I am thinking 28" to make it fly. Interested in hearing anyone else's experience before I go out and purchase more track.
SOme guys with HO 80+ scale feet of passenger cars talk about a 36"R curves. That would require about a 75" {over 6 feet around} circle or oval around your tree. Reasonable for a larger tree.
-G .
Just my thoughts, ideas, opinions and experiences. Others may vary.
HO and N Scale.
After long and careful thought, they have convinced me. I have come to the conclusion that they are right. The aliens did it.
My Walthers' 86' passenger cars work fine on 28" radius track. There is a fair amount of overhang, though.
Good luck!
What will work and what looks good are often two different issues. I have Athearn heavyweights that will run on 18" radius, but there is a lot of overhang. If the cars will run on 22" and that is the size you need under your tree, it's your decision on whether looks or run is most important. If you have more space, use the largest radius you can. Often under the tree, critics are less vocal of appearance,. Missized buildings and people, sharp curves, out of place out of era items often are included under the tree. It's Christmea, if it runs good that is the most important thing.
Good luck,
In the most unscientific and undocumented way that I can present it, I say use 30" or 32" radius curves as a minimum.
22" and 24" is too tight and I can say that with certainty from experience.
26" and 28" is tight and I can say that from experience.
30" and 32" work nicely and I can that with certainty from experience.
I can only imagine how smoothly and prototypically 34" and 36" would be.
Rich
Alton Junction
In my experience, it's the couplers not the length. My 80' AHM/Rivarossi cars with talgo (truck mounted) couplers will take 22"R with ease. I haven't tested them but they reportedly will take 18"R. Yet my Rivarossi/Walthers 60' cars won't do that sharp a curve, because of their body-mounted couplers.
As noted, Athearn cars top out at 70' and will take 22"R curves fine. Con-cor makes 72' cars that should work fine too. Roundhouse and Model Power make 60' "Harriman" passenger cars that should work down to 18", the Model Power ones come with interiors.
The quality of the trucks seem to make all the difference in the world. I have these old Rivarossi smoothside passenger cars and the quality is just junk. The trucks have no spring mechanisms so as the trucks make the turn they get caught up in features on the underside of the body and derail themselves. Oh well, thinking of just putting a dead spur off the side of the oval and putting the passenger cars on there and be a static display.
I have a set of Rivarossi coaches.
I added the Walthers lighting kit to them, which involved (among other things) replacing the trucks, so these are not the originals. The cars come with body-mounted "swing" coupler brackets, so they can negotiate tighter turns.
These run around 18-inch curves just fine. That's pretty much a hard limit. I've found that if I get sloppy or try to take liberties with the radius, these cars are the first to derail. There are issues with the underbody detail and the trucks, but with some judicious trimming, they can be made to work. 22-inch curves should be no problem with these cars.
Incidentally, the power is carried from the trucks to the car body through a screw head on the truck and a contact plate on the body. In theory, all wheels provide power on both sides. In practice, this works poorly and one of these days I'm going to run wires from the trucks to the body to get reliable power routing.
The cars come with a basic set of seats as the interior, but no figures. I painted the interior and added a bunch of cheap figures while I was doing the lighting kit.
It takes an iron man to play with a toy iron horse.
This is a question of aesthetics vs. performance. I have a set of Spectrum Heavyweight coaches with body-mounted, pivoting couplers that have no problems with 18" curves. But they don't look very good doing it -- very toylike. As others have said, this may not be a problem, as many holiday layouts are designed for whimsy, not realism.
I would say that if you have the opportunity, actually run them on a variety of radii. If not, then use the largest radius that will comfortably fit in your space. 24" radius gives you a 4' wide oval, and most evergreens have a bigger spread than that at the base. I would think that anything will corner on a 28" radius, so that's probably a good minimum to shoot for.
If they won't corner properly, see what's binding up. If it's the corners of the cars, or steps, or diaphragms binding, then you might be able to use couplers with a longer shank to solve the problem.
Connecticut Valley Railroad A Branch of the New York, New Haven, and Hartford
"If you think you can do a thing or think you can't do a thing, you're right." -- Henry Ford
Walthers will take a R24", but it has to be a perfect circle. You can't go from straight track to curve either without a significant easement/transition curve as this will cause considerable outswing on the ends and eventual uncoupling or closeline hanging derailment.
Don - Specializing in layout DC->DCC conversions
Modeling C&O transition era and steel industries There's Nothing Like Big Steam!
From personal experience, I have had Walthers 80' passenger cars go around a 22" radius curve using Atlas snap track,at speed, right out of the box.
Also, a Truck mounted coupler equipped Rivarossi 80' passenger car will make it around a 18" curve.
Same with Athearn shorties! 18", no problem.
Yes they didn't look "appropriate", but space was at a premium at the time & I wanted passenger trains.
My current set up has space available & I've made broader curves.
Gordon
Brought to you by the letters C.P.R. as well as D&H!
K1a - all the way
I have a set of the concor MP54-s and they work great on 22 inch. They also look more prototypical behind a steamer.
30 inch curves shown here but these are the cars.
Oh and the op never did say if he already had the passenger cars yet.
Springfield PA
I'd say for his Christmas Tree loop, he would be OK with the 26", as the LHS owner informed him for about anything with Talgo trucks or swing couplers, and probably any loco except maybe a rigid frame 4-4-4-4, 4-4-6-4, or 4-12-2 with the frame pinned. Sounds like he is thinking that 28" might be best for him. It's his choice, anyway. If he has room for 28", he can go for it with no problems.
I have a collection of wood and plastic 85' and longer passenger cars in Rivarrosi and a coup
If he has doubts, there are quite a few shorty 72' or even shorter Harriman type cars on the market
I have a fair collection of 85' cars by Rivarossi and others who's brand I forget, as well as an old Strombecker wood car with newer Talgo trucks and Kadee couplers, and all operate just fine to 24", and if I watch the rail joints, down at least to 22". In fact, the only car I have that gives me trouble below 26" is a 3 unit articulated diner kitbashed from 3 Athearn 72' streamliners. And I could probably get it down to 22" if I were to make up a new set of drawbars. But then, I'm more concerned with being able to run the kinds of rollling stock I like than their appearance on the track. In fact, after watching some videos showing the Big Boy, I often feel like it appears to have as much overhang in some of the scenes on prototype radius curves as my N&W Y-6 on 24".
I have a collection of wood and plastic 85' and longer passenger cars in Rivarrosi and a couple who'se brand I forget, as well as an old Strombecker wood car with newer Talgo trucks and Kadee couplers, and all operate just fine to 24", and if I watch the rail joints, down at least to 22". In fact, the only car I have that gives me trouble below 26" is a 3 unit articulated diner kitbashed from 3 Athearn 72' streamliners. And I could probably get it down to 22" if I were to make up a new set of drawbars.
Depends on your passenger cars
50FT Overland work OK on 22
These kind
51% share holder in the ME&O ( Wife owns the other 49% )
ME&O