Hey guys, just wonderin if anybody has any ideas on a small n scale layout for the Wisconsin Northern. Thinkin about picking up one of the new Atlas GP15-1s in WN scheme and finally getting out of the armchair. Im just having problems designing a layout around their small operations and being somewhat prototypical. Not really looking for a small switching layout packed with turnouts, more something around the lines of a layout that "simulates" more open operations. Anybody have any sugestions or ideas?
one question have you done reserch on the Wisconsin Northern railroad? if not i would go to this web site http://www.historicmapworks.com/Browse/United_States/Wisconsin/ you will be able to get info and a map of the Wisconsin Northern railroad. i go to this web site a lot for railroad maps.
robert aldrich
n scale i know and the alco line plus great northern
Given that the Wisconsin Northern is a modern shortline that started operations in November 2004, looking at historic maps may not be the best starting point :-)
There is a quick description in wikipedia: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wisconsin_Northern_Railroad
According to the Wikipedia entry the major commodities handled are: resins, scrap materials, lumber, logs, fertilizer, steel, feed grade grains, and tallow.
Looking at the Progressive Rail's web page, and looking at their "where we go" feature: http://www.progressiverail.com/where_we_go.html
So - Chippewa Falls north to Cameron, and then north to Rice Lake, or west to Almena. Chippewa Falls and Cameron is most likely to be the interesting spots.
Progressive Rails also has a list called "who we serve" here: http://www.progressiverail.com/who_we_serve.html
Knowing that you are looking for resins, lumber etc - it is possible to find pictures and info on customers.
I take it Bloomer Plastic at Bloomer is on the Wisconsin Northern. Birchwood manufacturing making hardwood veneer at Rice Lake (http://www.bessegroup.com/public/companies/birchwood_man.php) is another customer.
Maybe sit down with http://www.bing.com/maps to look at the RR line and then use the yellow pages online to look for industries that seems rail served.
Quite a few pics of the Wisconsin Northern here: http://kohlin.com/WN_2008/page5.htm
If you google for search terms: switching "Wisconsin Northern" youtube
You will find a number of videos of switching on the Wisconsin Northern.
Should be a start, at least.
As for some ideas about modeling switching operations, have a look at Jack Hill's web page at URL http://oscalewcor.blogspot.com/
Smile,Stein
they do have maps from 2004 to 2009 on the web site i posted
Thanks guys, a lot of help. I already knew most of this as I have already researched the railroad but I guess what Im asking is how to design a trackplan from the information if that makes any sense. I dont really have any idea to lay the trackplan down or come up with a track plan thta would be suitable. Stein, could you come up with a trackplan that has the feel of Wisconsin? Thats kind of my problem.
BNSF MPLS/ST.P Stein, could you come up with a trackplan that has the feel of Wisconsin? That's kind of my problem.
Stein, could you come up with a trackplan that has the feel of Wisconsin? That's kind of my problem.
What, in your opinion, is the key elements of giving a feel of Wisconsin? I have never been further into Wisconsin than on a short expedition from a visit to the Twin Cities to the Crystal Caves at Spring Valley - between Hudson and Menomonie, in the western part of the state.
My impression from driving off the freeway in that part of the state was that it was somewhat hilly rural area with mostly fairly open fields, with banks or clumps of leafy trees, mostly low, utilitarian, but seemingly reasonably well kept buildings in the smaller towns - I saw brick buildings, plank siding and corrugated iron siding on buildings.
I would look at the youtube videos of WN switching to get an impression of the places.
Then look at what room you have available, and what type of operations you want to model. Is it most important to you to get longer runs or more hot spots? Then, depending on how much room you have available, maybe pick a couple of scenes to copy (in a shrunk down format).
Smile, Stein
Google Maps, or rather the sattelite view, is your friend.
If you can go to Chippewa Falls on Google maps and find the corner of Halbleib Road and 75th Ave (also known as 1st Ave for reasons I cannot understand), you will see a small yard to the east and a track that crosses a road to a major industry that gets tons of covered hoppers. That is where the WN usually parks its two mainline engines and where you are most likely to see them when they are not on duty. In fact I think it is one of their engines you see in the sattelite photo. From there I'd follow the line north and note sidings and industries. It branches off just north of there.
The Rice Lake trackage is also very interesting and again Google/Sattelite view is useful.
So are these maps: http://kohlin.com/WN_2005/maps.htm
Dave Nelson
steinjr BNSF MPLS/ST.P: Stein, could you come up with a trackplan that has the feel of Wisconsin? That's kind of my problem. What, in your opinion, is the key elements of giving a feel of Wisconsin? I have never been further into Wisconsin than on a short expedition from a visit to the Twin Cities to the Crystal Caves at Spring Valley - between Hudson and Menomonie, in the western part of the state. My impression from driving off the freeway in that part of the state was that it was somewhat hilly rural area with mostly fairly open fields, with banks or clumps of leafy trees, mostly low, utilitarian, but seemingly reasonably well kept buildings in the smaller towns - I saw brick buildings, plank siding and corrugated iron siding on buildings. I would look at the youtube videos of WN switching to get an impression of the places. Then look at what room you have available, and what type of operations you want to model. Is it most important to you to get longer runs or more hot spots? Then, depending on how much room you have available, maybe pick a couple of scenes to copy (in a shrunk down format). Smile, Stein
BNSF MPLS/ST.P: Stein, could you come up with a trackplan that has the feel of Wisconsin? That's kind of my problem.
BNSF MPLS/ST.P The problem is that I cant make a track plan out of it that is interesting. I want slight switching but still give the feel of rural/small town Wisconsin as in some wide open parts. Id like an L-shaped plan about 8 by 8 or 8 by 4 along those lines. I think your getting the gist of what Im saying.
The problem is that I cant make a track plan out of it that is interesting. I want slight switching but still give the feel of rural/small town Wisconsin as in some wide open parts. Id like an L-shaped plan about 8 by 8 or 8 by 4 along those lines. I think your getting the gist of what Im saying.
What makes a track plan interesting for you?
Have a look e.g. at Jack Hill's 10x25 foot 1:48 scale track plan (i.e. about 3 x 7.5 feet in N scale) here and how he operates his layout here. The track plan is pretty simple. Operations looks fun.
But it seems like your main goal maybe is not switching. Are we talking a continuous run loop in some form, or a point to point type layout?
Let's for argument's sake say that a typical train will be two GP-15 engines (frame about 50 feet per engine) and eight 60-foot cars, for a total train length of 580 scale feet - about 580 x 12 scale inches = 580 x 12 / 160 = 43 inches or 3.5 feet long trains on an N scale layout .
If mainline length is 16 feet total on a simple point to point layout down two narrow shelves along two 8-foot walls, that is about 4 1/2 train length.
Clearly, if you want to spend most of your operating time running through the landscape, with only occasional switching, we need to look at extending the mainline or making it continuous run layout.
We were talking an L-shaped layout area. Is the 8x8 foot L-shape in the middle of the floor (ie with room to walk all around an L-shape say 3-4 feet thick along both ends), or up against two walls - ie with access just from the "inside" the L shape?
Wow, that hit me like a ton of bricks. That is almost exactly what I was looking for! I guess I just have to broaden my searching. Ive been looking for only N and HO scale plans. Let me sit on it for a while and Ill get back to you.
There's a fangroup at yahoo.com called WISCONSINNORTHERN that has a lot of pictures, as well as up-to-date information about the WN's customer base and ops. Some of the regular posters are ProgRail ops personnel, so it is kind od a semi-official forum. If you decide to model the WN, you might want to join.
Well, I thought about it overnight and I dont know now if I want to model the Wisconsin Northern or better yet, if I should. I really like the layout but I am concerned about the operation on such a simple track plan. I dont want the operation to last 10 minutes, thats pointless. There is lots of variables to make it longer but I dont know how long you could "extend" the time. The other issue is the Wisconsin Northern part. The layout begs to ran on HO scale which is what I really wanted the layout to be anyway, but I sort of settled on N scale because of the GP15-1 in WN scheme. Nobody yet makes it in HO scale so maybe I might model the Minnesota Commercial. Atlas make awesome C-424s in the scheme already. The MNNR is along the sames lines as the WN but more urban which the layout is perfect for. I had my sights set on the MNNR earlier but kinda gave up on that idea, buts its come back to life. What are yours guys' ideas?
I think sticking with the WI Northern could make it both unique and a showpiece layout. There are many scenic features involving water and bridges -- including a siding that starts on a bridge -- and both rural and town modeling, interspersed with plenty of trees. And some of those towns feature compact, well-aged structures that are perfect for modeling. The engines are kept in very clean condition by the way so out of the box they look prototypical!
BNSF MPLS/ST.P Well, I thought about it overnight and I dont know now if I want to model the Wisconsin Northern or better yet, if I should.
Well, I thought about it overnight and I dont know now if I want to model the Wisconsin Northern or better yet, if I should.
Nobody else can make that decision for you. Sorry.
BNSF MPLS/ST.P I really like the layout but I am concerned about the operation on such a simple track plan. I dont want the operation to last 10 minutes, thats pointless. There is lots of variables to make it longer but I dont know how long you could "extend" the time.
I really like the layout but I am concerned about the operation on such a simple track plan. I dont want the operation to last 10 minutes, thats pointless. There is lots of variables to make it longer but I dont know how long you could "extend" the time.
Or in other words - you, like a lot of people, are impatient, and don't really read the text or follows links, but just looks at the pictures.
Couple of quotes from Jack's web page (which I gave you twice - but you reacted the second time like you had not seen it at all the first time ...) :
"It takes another 30 minutes or so to build our inbound loads into spot order and deal the others into the holding track.." (this is just a small part of an operating session handling seven inbound cars, distributed to two neighboring industries).
On another page (ops revisited) he says: "The beauty of a small layout like this is that you can tailor your op session based on spare time available. Only have 20 minutes? Maybe CSXT only dropped one or two cars last night...or maybe PCA only needs an inter-plant shift. Want a long session? Have a second CSXT local arrive to pick up outbounds and set out more cars during the middle of your session. Then there are the occasional loads for Premier Chemical and Eagle Foods to add into the mix:-)"
You certainly can extend switching ops far beyond ten minutes. If you want to. But if you are impatient, perhaps switching is not for you.
BNSF MPLS/ST.P The other issue is the Wisconsin Northern part. The layout begs to ran on HO scale which is what I really wanted the layout to be anyway, but I sort of settled on N scale because of the GP15-1 in WN scheme. Nobody yet makes it in HO scale so maybe I might model the Minnesota Commercial. Atlas make awesome C-424s in the scheme already. The MNNR is along the sames lines as the WN but more urban which the layout is perfect for. I had my sights set on the MNNR earlier but kinda gave up on that idea, buts its come back to life. What are yours guys' ideas?
The other issue is the Wisconsin Northern part. The layout begs to ran on HO scale which is what I really wanted the layout to be anyway, but I sort of settled on N scale because of the GP15-1 in WN scheme. Nobody yet makes it in HO scale so maybe I might model the Minnesota Commercial. Atlas make awesome C-424s in the scheme already. The MNNR is along the sames lines as the WN but more urban which the layout is perfect for. I had my sights set on the MNNR earlier but kinda gave up on that idea, buts its come back to life. What are yours guys' ideas?
I don't know why you feel this prototype begs to run H0 scale equipment.
But locomotives can be repainted, if it is not sold in the colors you want it in. It is a fairly basic part of model railroading to repaint engines and rolling stock. Or to remove or add details or modify engine shells in some way.
Doesn't mean that you have to repaint engines if you absolutely do not want to. But RTR equipment not being available pre-painted in the right colors is not a huge obstacle to modeling a railroad.
But in the end it comes down to what you want to do. Your choice.
You have some good arguements, stein. I guess I could call myself impatient and lazy cause I am more of a visual learner; got to learn to read the print :) I am trying to avoid painting a locomotive because Ive had a lot of bad experiences with paint in the past. I guess I just have to quit doubting myself, pick something and do it. Thats part of the reason Ive been in the armchair.