I will be starting the deck work for my layout soon. The room i am going into has changed from one of the bedrooms to outside to the garage. I am in Southern CA. The garage is not heated. Occasionally the area gets snow. The temps in Dewcember and January can be really cold, down to the teens. The summber can get to be about 110. So varied temperature extremes. Any suggestions.
love any kind of train
Temperatures are not going to be insurmountable, but humidity could. The Code 100 nickel-silver rail will expand only 1/4" along a 100' length over a 30 degree temperature range (yes, that little!). If you place gaps here and there that are near 1/16", and keep them free in metal joiners, you will accommodate any temperature problems. But humidity can really be detrimental on wood framing. I'll leave you to figure out if it is likely to be a problem in your garage from season-to-season. A dehumidifier or humidifier might be useful at times, perhaps both in a year's cycle. I have one of each and find that I need to have them run for about three months a year each.
One of our members, tomikawaTT, is building his layout in his garage, but he elected to use metal framing elements. He'll turn up in a bit and explain what he is doing.
Crandell
Yep sounds like a good time to used steel studs and foam to me.
Brent
"All of the world's problems are the result of the difference between how we think and how the world works."
A dehumidifier can help keep moisture under control, though you may find yourself emptying it several times a day on humid days unless you have a drain it can drain into, especailly if the garage is "leaky" and allows outside humidity form humid days to seep in...
Steel studs and extruded 2" foam insulation for a base can be a good bet. Tough in S. CA you may have trouble finding it {the foam} and may have to order online or travel to teh northern part of the state to get it. Some in CA can chime in and tell you where/ how they got theirs. SInce your area sometimes gets snow, maybe you Can find it local. Another source is construction waste dumping if they use it in your area for insulation. ASk before you take and they should let you have the scraps for free.
Also is there a window into which you could stick a windowA/c for summer heat?
ANd some guys will add gas heaters set on low to their garages to help with the winter chill. around here you can get teh wall mounted ones for as little as $100. fed by nat gas or propane.
Just some thoughts and ideasf or you to consider.
-G .
Just my thoughts, ideas, opinions and experiences. Others may vary.
HO and N Scale.
After long and careful thought, they have convinced me. I have come to the conclusion that they are right. The aliens did it.
About 25 years ago, I started construction on my first layout. It was in the basement of a 1000 square foot house. Over 3 years the construction went well and I was able to finish all of the track work and had some scenery in about 60% of the layout. The layout was good enough for the layout tour of the Mid Continent Region's annual show. I lived in St. Louis at the time, so the weather would go below zero in the winter and above 100 degrees (with 100% humidity). Two weeks before the train show, the double track mainline under the mountain "popped" all of the ties from the rail. Luckily, the mountain was open at one end and I was able to replace all of the track that was broken. Since that time, I have tried the garage which did not work because of similar problems. I have had one layout in a basement that was not finished (which worked out well) and two others in special rooms that have cooling and heating vents. This works the best with track expansion and contraction and dust. In your position, I would put insulation in the garage and put up sheet rock. This would decrease temperature variation. I would consider doing something permanently with the garage door to decrease temperature problems and dust problems.
Craig North Carolina
I have always believed that building a layout in a finished room is a no-brainer....
Obviously it isn´t, as I have seen in many different threads on this and other Forums.
I think that to have som enjoyment from this hobby, it shouldn´t be a extreme-sport!
To have a stabilized climate, straight walls and finished ceilings, just adds to the "neatness" of the build. And it eliminates the dust also...
To be able to work AND operate on the layout without worrying about the weather outside that could ruin the whole experience.
To spend many thousands of dollars on a layout and not spending some on finishing the room before starting the build is a waste of money in my opinion.
Swedish Custom painter and model maker. My Website:
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Graffen I have always believed that building a layout in a finished room is a no-brainer.... Obviously it isn´t, as I have seen in many different threads on this and other Forums. I think that to have som enjoyment from this hobby, it shouldn´t be a extreme-sport! To have a stabilized climate, straight walls and finished ceilings, just adds to the "neatness" of the build. And it eliminates the dust also... To be able to work AND operate on the layout without worrying about the weather outside that could ruin the whole experience. To spend many thousands of dollars on a layout and not spending some on finishing the room before starting the build is a waste of money in my opinion.
Not to bust on you, but...
Besides what I said, what I DIDN'T say is what Aikidomaster and especially Graffen have writen here. A basement {that isn't an old stone foundation but rather a Cinder Block or concrete that is dry} I can understand more than I can understand a garage. But I also know you guys in some climes don't have basements, so the garge is it.
But as Gaffen said, to spend a few thousand dollars on a layout {and even a small one can cost quite a lot- ask me how I know} and NOT want it in at least a semi-climate controlled and finished space is beyond me.
Put up insulation, vapor barrier and drywall and put in a gas wall space heater[$100} and a window a/c {$100} to help control the climate FIRST, or else don't complain later to anyone who will listen when it fails.
In my opinion, it's as much about the operator as it is about the layout itself. My layout is in a semi-finished basement which is dry and fairly dust free, but unheated. Temperature is about 56 degrees year round. Humidity is high in the summer, because the cool, air, carrying moisture, sinks to the lowest level.
I have a dehumidifier which runs constantly (although taking several weeks to fill up during the winter), and two small space heaters that I run when I'm down there. 56 degrees may not sound cold, until you've stood there fairly motionless with your fingers wrapped around a controller for 2 hours.
What you really want to ask yourself is, will you want to be in that space when it's 95 degrees out side, or 20 degrees. Will you enjoy your layout when it's steaming hot and you have sweat dripping down your face, or bundled up in full winter clothing?
For my money, throwing up some insulation and weather stripping will go a long way to improving your experience. What good is a terrific layout if you can only really enjoy it a couple weeks of the year?
Connecticut Valley Railroad A Branch of the New York, New Haven, and Hartford
"If you think you can do a thing or think you can't do a thing, you're right." -- Henry Ford
Aikidomaster About 25 years ago, I started construction on my first layout. It was in the basement of a 1000 square foot house. Over 3 years the construction went well and I was able to finish all of the track work and had some scenery in about 60% of the layout. The layout was good enough for the layout tour of the Mid Continent Region's annual show. I lived in St. Louis at the time, so the weather would go below zero in the winter and above 100 degrees (with 100% humidity). Two weeks before the train show, the double track mainline under the mountain "popped" all of the ties from the rail. Luckily, the mountain was open at one end and I was able to replace all of the track that was broken. Since that time, I have tried the garage which did not work because of similar problems. I have had one layout in a basement that was not finished (which worked out well) and two others in special rooms that have cooling and heating vents. This works the best with track expansion and contraction and dust. In your position, I would put insulation in the garage and put up sheet rock. This would decrease temperature variation. I would consider doing something permanently with the garage door to decrease temperature problems and dust problems.
Craig, I live in Maryville IL so you might as well say St Louis. My layout is in the garage and is based on 2 X 4's (not a good idea) and 3/4 Plywood that I dumpster dived for. Garage is fished, I have a window AC unit and a gas wall heater. I have not had any problems with any kind or wrapping in 6 years.
In the summer when I am at work, the AC is off and the bench is at the mercury of the elements. In the winter I keep the heater fired but sat on low. I am sure the section by the garage door gets into the low 30's with frost forming on the inside of it.
With planing the new bench based on ripped 3/4 plywood and 1 x 4's I hope my luck keeps going.
OP, I have read that if you seal the wood, it will help keeping the wood from swelling. Far as the steel studs, well I would never buy them for the reason listed. But, they are straight and strong so that is a reason in it self. I like working with metal better than wood having been in the Body Shop Business for 20 years and have the tools to cut the stuff. But with the new layout being 200 + square feet, the ripped plywood will save me a few hundred dollars.
Good luck and enjoy.
Cuda Ken
I hate Rust
I'm in North Las Vegas, where the temperatures in the garage layout space have a similar range to yours, and (thanks to a gas-fired water heater and local codes) has to have unobstructed vents to the not-so-great outdoors. As Crandell (selector) mentioned, I've opted to use steel studs instead of forest products for my C acts like L girder benchwork, including risers. Above the risers, cookie-cut plywood subgrade, foam roadbed (cut from fan-fold underlayment) and card stock track templates support the flex track and the wood ties under my hand-laid specialwork.
When the temperature is at its lowest my rail gaps open to about 1.5mm. At 3 PM on an August afternoon, the rails are butted tight. I don't solder rail joints, but I do solder jumpers around them to assure bulletproof electrical continuity.
Here in the Dessicated Desert, forest products tend to take interesting shapes as they dry. Humidity has no effect on steel. Also, I find it easier to bend tin to accurate shapes than to attempt creative carpentry (or even just plain carpentry.) My tool box contains a hack saw, tin snips, vice grips and a cordless drill (with bits and a couple of cross-point screwdriver bits of different lengths.) Most assembly is done with the little sheet metal screws used for commercial steel stud assembly - which don't even need pilot holes if the parts to be joined are solidly clamped together. Places where the benchwork can be separated into modules are bolted together. I have generated very little waste with steel studs, since cutoffs can be formed into risers or used as brackets.
One final advantage comes when you wire the layout. The steel stud main girders and joists are natural wire runs. Any spider webs under the layout have been put there by arachnids, not electricians.
Chuck (Modeling Central Japan in September, 1964)
bakerboy2008 I will be starting the deck work for my layout soon. The room i am going into has changed from one of the bedrooms to outside to the garage. I am in Southern CA. The garage is not heated. Occasionally the area gets snow. The temps in Dewcember and January can be really cold, down to the teens. The summber can get to be about 110. So varied temperature extremes. Any suggestions.
I always seem to be the iconoclast when this subject comes up, but whatever... My layout is in a garage here in the high desert under similar conditions: extreme heat in summer, chilly down to occasional freezing temps in winter. I have never have had problems with expansion or contraction. All rail joints are soldered for the sake of electrical continuity--even the turnouts are soldered. I refuse to use Homasote, just good grade plywood and in a couple of places, pink board. Do the same and you should have no problems.
John Timm
I currently only have a 4x8 layout on a 2" blue insulation board and woodland scenics foam roadbed and mostly atlas code 83 flextrack and turnouts. Started construction in a self storage unit in Gilbert, Arizona where the temperature ranged from 120 to low 30s with no problems. I now live in La Pine, Oregon and it is now in the middle of my living room which I keep at a constant 65 degrees and the layout loves it.
When I was in Colorado I had an around the room 13' x 22' shelf layout with stanley 20" metal shelf brackets and all foam insulation board base and scenery base. Never had any problem with that either in 4 years.
Foam insulation board is in my opinion the only way to go for base and scenery base construction as it is impervious to both temperature and humidity and it works and shapes so easily.
If you are married to l-girder construction and or splines for roadbase you can easily cut the 1" thick board into strips, glue them into your l-girgers or put them on their sides for splines and they work perfect and are still humidity and temperature impervious.
Pay particular attention to making sure you have adequate gaps at your rail joints in a situation like this, say 1/16" or so every other rail. If you lay the track in the winter and butt the rail tightly end to end you're looking at a buckling situation waiting to happen when the temps increase.
Lance
Visit Miami's Downtown Spur at www.lancemindheim.com
Great point, the 4x8 track was laid in summer in Phoenix when it was 110-120and I did leave some of the rail joins un soldered so they are free to constrict, but even since moving to Oregon I have seen no noticible constriction, but then I keep the temperature in the house around 65.
The Colorado layout had most of the track laid during the spring, but again it was in a spare room in the house so there wasn't much temperature fluctuation.
Definitely something to keep in mond thought when I do get to build my "permanent" layout in the next coupls years.