[quote user="Doughless"]
dexterdog: I can't stress highly enough that you use the best and straightest lumber you can find. Trying to force warped or twisted 1 x 4's into benchwork will cause almost certain grief over time. I now build all my benchwork out of plywood, ripped to length on a table saw. You can get can get 12 8 foot 1 x 4's out of one sheet of half inch plywood for less than a third of the price of pine, and you don't have to deal with any warping or twisting. Nor do you have to waste time picking through lengths of lumber at your local Home Depot. You simply can't go wrong with plywood. Winning!
I can't stress highly enough that you use the best and straightest lumber you can find. Trying to force warped or twisted 1 x 4's into benchwork will cause almost certain grief over time.
I now build all my benchwork out of plywood, ripped to length on a table saw. You can get can get 12 8 foot 1 x 4's out of one sheet of half inch plywood for less than a third of the price of pine, and you don't have to deal with any warping or twisting. Nor do you have to waste time picking through lengths of lumber at your local Home Depot. You simply can't go wrong with plywood.
Winning!
That's interesting. 1x4's that are warped along the fat side are worthless, but I've found when they are warped along the skinny side, if you know what I mean, or untwisted using three pre-drilled screws when attaching them to other boards, I have not had any problems. Of course, 2x boards are too stout to unwarp or untwist.
I'm curious about ripping 1/2 inch plywood into 1x substitutes. It seems the 1/2 inch product would be kind of thin to either make L-girders out of or to nail directly into the side of.
Sorry, perhaps I should have elaborated further.
I don't use L-girder construction instead opting for a modular system. Portability is a must and for weight considerations I find half-inch plywood to be sufficiently strong when glued and screwed together with drywall screws. I also drill pilot holes first to countersink the screws.
My modules are usually 2 feet by 4 feet, but I have one section which is eight feet long and on this larger frame I laminated two 1/2 inch 1 x 4's together to produce a more robust unit. I also make the legs for the modules out of plywood as well and so far have encountered no issues with this cost-effective method of construction.
This is a picture of the progress thus far. Notice the two completed support sections that were done tonight by the window. You can see the matched spars laying on one of the sections in the foreground.
Here it is from another angle... The problem section is the front left from this view:
A view of all the foamular stuff is next. In the back are the matched sections that will form the 4" base on each table. In the foreground is all the extra after creatig the matched sections for terrain building fun. :) Vacuum for the nights cleanup made it in the pic as well:
Hold my beer... ya'll watch this!
The first table that I built had the worst warped wood. I made one tonight and am in progress on another that did not have warped wood and are turning out fantastic.
The first one was a test... we'll see how it works out as construction progresses. The finished product has about a 1/4 inch twist over a 6 foot 9 inch length. I tested mating the foamular to it which went well. The big test will be the final fit check before everything comes off the ground. I may try soaking that whole table and putting weights on it.
I was almost to the point over the weekend of seeing how steel support would work instead, but after tonight's progress I'm very happy with the results.
It's a very enjoyable learning process nonetheless.
dexterdog I can't stress highly enough that you use the best and straightest lumber you can find. Trying to force warped or twisted 1 x 4's into benchwork will cause almost certain grief over time. I now build all my benchwork out of plywood, ripped to length on a table saw. You can get can get 12 8 foot 1 x 4's out of one sheet of half inch plywood for less than a third of the price of pine, and you don't have to deal with any warping or twisting. Nor do you have to waste time picking through lengths of lumber at your local Home Depot. You simply can't go wrong with plywood. Winning!
- Douglas
I went through this myself and I can truly speak from experience. In the past I've tried to save money by using discount or salvaged lumber to build benchwork for my model railroads and they would eventually always exhibit problems, and the whole shebang would end up out on the curb for the trash man after being chopped up by my reciprocating saw.
Progress update:
After the warped 1x4's stalled my plans, plus working so much.... I had to take a step back and rethink my game. I've worked with a few guys that were quite skilled at woodworking, so I was able to formulate a good plan of attack. That was just too much wood ($$$) to toss out, so I wanted to exhaust every avenue before chucking it.
As it turns out (after completing the first frameworked board cutout tonight), gently forcing the 1x4's to behave works out quite nicely. Appropriately using the screws to apply the right amount of torque seemed to work very well.
5 more frames to build and then I can finally get to the fun part!
Forcing your 1 by 4´s into shape may end in sad results for your layout, so I´d not do it. Getting straight lumber seems to be an issue all over the world, so I have given up on this and use plywood, ripped into appropriate pieces ( my local home improvement store does that for me - at no extra cost).
Just an update-
I've been worked to my wit's end through November and December, and recently got a chance to cut the base framework 1x4's to be attached to the plywood cutouts.
Unfortunately, the some of the 1x4's for the framework have warped/twisted a bit.
Will "forcing them" and screwing them in do the trick, even though I preferred to drill a pilot hole and then screw, or is there some other method that would be more appropriate?
The original plan was a screw every 6 inches to a foot (whatever gave decent security of attachment), with cross support 1x4s every 18 inches.
Thanks!! Tiptoeing in progress....
Thanks for the compliments!
Progress for tonight: I completed all the matching foamular overlay cutouts in one setting tonight. 4 inches of foamular is matched on top of each base section.... with rather large mound of it left over for some fun terrain!
I tried a couple techniques on cutting- the guy at home depot recommended at drywall saw. That just did not give smooth edges. The kitchen knife might have worked, but was very labor intensive.
I then tried a longer wood saw blade on the jigsaw...and wa-la! Super fast and accurate cutting and extremely smooth edges...as smooth as the original outside edges!
Next up will be constructing the base framework.
Looks good so far! I hope you continue to post updates as the layout moves along.
Looking really good! Looks like you're quickly becoming a jigsaw master. I remember doing all of that.
You can use any kind of saw or knife for cutting the foam. A drywall saw, a hacksaw blade not attached to the hacksaw, or even a sharp steak knife will work.
I used my expensive chef's knife. LOL
Michael
CEO- Mile-HI-RailroadPrototype: D&RGW Moffat Line 1989
Now that I've got this part done, what is the best thing to cut the foamular pieces with?
Finished the last cut of the base plywood sections tonight! Next up the underlying support structure for each of those sections.
Before the first cut:
Another angle, showing the area where it will be going:
Tonight before finishing up the last cutout... confirming final measurements after doing a fit check:
Good fit! One angle of the final shape..shifted 12 inches to the right for the the way the pipe angles:
A view of the entire layout from another angle, with my furry little helper. As you can see I modified some of the angles and gave myself a bit more surface area in a few places. TADA!
Build it and they will come....
Sounds like things are moving along. Post some pics of the benchwork once you get that completed.
Progress report:
Bought all the lumber and styrene sheets last week. The base of the layout will be set on 4 inches of the pink styrofoam boards. Plenty of leftovers... those will be used for terrain creation.
I got 26 Atlas code 83 flex track sections for the mainline- 23 were min required. 21 sections of standard "wood" code 83 flex track were purchased with a minimum measured of 17 required. Slop is a good thing.
For Peco turnouts, 6 #5 L and 3 #5 right were acquired, along with 7# 6 L and 13 # 6 R. 1 #7 L curved was required for the yard entry.
The Woodland Scenics was the cheapest option for once... bought their road bed in lieu of cord board.
I'll include pictures once the last of the initial materials trickle in!
Stein -
I value your opinions on model railroads, and when I saw your "E-Shaped" track plan a light bulb lit up in my head. Several years ago I saw photos (in MR mag, I think) of a layout roughly similar to your E-Shape, but rotated 90 degrees counter clockwise. The layout height was approximated chest level or a bit less, so the isles between the prongs of the E were not visible to the observer. Those isles were for access only (without the pains of a lift out) and they appeared to be canyons or valleys to all viewers, whose position was at the bottom of your diagram.
So my question is, what do you think about this approach? Any pitfalls?
I realize my idea doesn't conform to the modern approach, but it is exactly what I want in a MR. It most closely conforms to your third paradigm, "Or do you visualize standing at one spot and watching several trains arrive come from somewhere else (perhaps coming out of a tunnel or around a curve or something), passing by your location one after the other (or at the same time, in opposite directions, on a double track section), before they head off somewhere else?" which I call a panoramic view from a low tower.
But please understand that I am not looking for trains whizzing around each. I want prototypical speeds and intervals between the arrival and departure of the trains. I also want to simulate a depth of vision as shown in the OP's photo.
I would add some operations to keep my interest, but mostly I want to entertain the grandchildren and friends.
Thanks a lot for any thoughts you might have.
- Harry
settled on a scenery motif:
viewphoto.php?id=337739&nseq=13
Bought all the turnouts already.
No curved ones required.... just 5 and 6 L and R.
80ktsClamp Good to hear. The funny thing is that when I look for other turnouts they don't have the options and variety that the Peco ones have... plus the reputation. Do it once do it right, haha.
Good to hear. The funny thing is that when I look for other turnouts they don't have the options and variety that the Peco ones have... plus the reputation. Do it once do it right, haha.
Actually, I believe you will find that Walthers/Shinohara has a greater variety (especially if you want any curved turnouts) and are quality products also.
Dante
Wholesaletrains.com seems to be th best deal anywhere.
23.87 for each Peco turnout.
3.85 for each section of regular Atlas Code 83 flex track.
3.99 for each section of Atlas concrete tie Code 83 flex track.
Using the concrete for all mainline sections.
Free shipping and no tax!
Modelling HO Scale with a focus on the West and Midwest USA
Micheal-
I haven't decided on control. At this point, I would prefer to do manual for cost savings- How much are those decoders?
Here is what is more or less the final version of the layout. It will be tweaked as need be. I found a quarry that I really liked that required me to tweak the track. Glacier Gravel model by walthers cornerstone. Fit what I wanted to do perfect up against the backdrop!
As far as track selections:
What are everyone's opinions here on contemporary ops with concrete beams for the track? Is that more of a mainline thing or is that going everywhere?
Yes Peco switches are a bit pricey, but they are worth. every penny. I have 24 of them on my layout and they work flawlessly.
How are you controlling your turnouts? Manually? or remotely? I control all of them remotely using the Peco selonoid switch machines all connected to NCE snap-it accessory decoders.
The Peco switch machines are nice as they mount under the switch and are hidden from view. I have 2" of foam on my layout and I just cut out a little hole for the switch machines to drop into. It's very slick.
Peco track and switches are quite pricey, but they are worth it! $ 24 for a #6 code 83 is about the best deal you can get. MSRP is $34.98.
I've reworked the crossovers to allow for better operation and eliminated the S turn completely.
Working on shopping for track... I really like the way the Atlas Code 83 with the concrete ties looks, and it seems to be what the railroads are using now.
Looks like the best price I can find for the super flex track is $3.99.
The Peco turnouts are quite pricey... haven't found anything below 24 dollars. Anyone know of any better places?
This thing has 99 feet of flex track and 28 turnouts... every penny saved counts!
hi
i think you should replace the two right hand crossovers, the one at the top and the one at the bottom, by two left hand crossovers. This enables you to keep a mainline freight running, while using a part of the second main as a drill track.
Paul
80ktsClamp Motley: Oh do I miss Hotlanta and all the hot women there. We don't have any here in CO. I think 8 pages is enough on this one. Easy, just go with an NCE DCC system, they are great for newbies. And just solder track feeders every 6-10 ft. or so, and ones for every diverging track on turnouts. Get the PECO insulfrogs (which I have) they are already good for DCC, and they work great. I have 24 of them on my new layout. Shoot.. in Boulder there be some gooood looking girls! I suggest looking there, haha. I'm still learning about this whole DCC thing... the wiring does seem simpler with that. Is it expensive to mod my engines for DCC? I'm assuming I should isolate all the track divergences and the sections that I have the feeder wires added... thus making it a block control more or less? -Denny
Motley: Oh do I miss Hotlanta and all the hot women there. We don't have any here in CO. I think 8 pages is enough on this one. Easy, just go with an NCE DCC system, they are great for newbies. And just solder track feeders every 6-10 ft. or so, and ones for every diverging track on turnouts. Get the PECO insulfrogs (which I have) they are already good for DCC, and they work great. I have 24 of them on my new layout.
Oh do I miss Hotlanta and all the hot women there. We don't have any here in CO.
I think 8 pages is enough on this one. Easy, just go with an NCE DCC system, they are great for newbies. And just solder track feeders every 6-10 ft. or so, and ones for every diverging track on turnouts. Get the PECO insulfrogs (which I have) they are already good for DCC, and they work great. I have 24 of them on my new layout.
Shoot.. in Boulder there be some gooood looking girls! I suggest looking there, haha.
I'm still learning about this whole DCC thing... the wiring does seem simpler with that. Is it expensive to mod my engines for DCC?
I'm assuming I should isolate all the track divergences and the sections that I have the feeder wires added... thus making it a block control more or less?
-Denny
Ya Boulder is either college kids or what we call "tree-huggers" and "hippies".
You can add DCC decoders to your DC engines no problem. Non sound decoders are under $50 and the sounds ones are around $80-100.
No need to isolate the turnouts, that's why the insulated turnouts are designed for. (Peco insulfrogs).
No need for block control at all with DCC. And the most important thing is you can run multiple engines at the same time, same track. It's all digitally controlled by the decoder. And the sound engines are really cool. Controling different sounds, coupler clank, air vents, air horns, everything can be controlled with the DCC throttle.
Another thing is you can control your turnouts if you want with the throttle. I have 24 switches and I control them all remotely with my throttle.
I would recommend picking up a DCC for beginners book at your LHS.
Motley Oh do I miss Hotlanta and all the hot women there. We don't have any here in CO. I think 8 pages is enough on this one. Easy, just go with an NCE DCC system, they are great for newbies. And just solder track feeders every 6-10 ft. or so, and ones for every diverging track on turnouts. Get the PECO insulfrogs (which I have) they are already good for DCC, and they work great. I have 24 of them on my new layout.
Stein-
For mainline access I can reach that from either of the two areas before it enters the wide area. The siding next to the mainline I plan on using for a train station line for the shorter pax trains or parking a shorter train. That line will only be used for shorter stuff.
The servicing spur will have equipment at each end of it... tanks for refueling and engine servicing as well as car servicing on the other end.
I like the idea of the crossover between the spur extension and the yard lead. I haven't quite figure out where to place it yet. I've tried a couple options and haven't found anything that I like the looks of.
The S-turn will be eliminated by reversing the mainline crossover directions on the long straight and adding parrallel crossovers on the siding as well. The problematic crossover will be completely eliminated.
Thanks for the nitpicking!