Hello all,
I had a train set when I was a child and have always loved model railroads. Long story short, while visiting my parents last week we visited a hobby shop, and I picked up a couple Model Railroader books in addition to what I had from back in the day. Then...realized that I have all my rolling stock and engines sitting in my closet still in perfect condition (even a UP DD40X!)
So, now that I've "grown up" (yeah, right...), I now have the money and space to build something.
I've spent hours and hours researching and will be spending more, but it's time for some feedback from people that are experienced in this hobby.
A couple factors for consideration/inspiration:1. My favorite memories of railroads are from driving out west when I was younger. Think desert/mountains type setting...especially Arizona and Utah... and in a modern setting. 2. I don't want something ridiculously complicated, but I also want to move beyond the standard 4x8. In my prelim planning, the space I'm working with in the basement can support up to a 4x12, or what seems to be the optimum will be an L shape up to 10 or even 12 feet in one direction, and 8 on the other extension. 3. Future moving must be considered.
I found the Rancocas Harbor Belt on Atlas after getting frustrated trying to engineer my own layout, which is nearly exactly what I was trying to come up with. Also in consideration is the Granite Gorge and Northern, but that is a rapidly distancing second.
For the RHB, I searched and found a particularly industrious and talented poster on here named "pitstop" who is (was? hopefully complete by now) building one nearly exactly how I envisioned. If I do go with a canned plan, I will certainly be customizing it. Additionally, I want to somehow engineer in the ability to split and move it if and when the need arises.
Anyways... Thanks in advance for feedback and advice!
Hold my beer... ya'll watch this!
Welcome back to the greatest hobby on earth!
Suggesting a layout is a quite difficult task, if we don´t know, what you are really looking for. There is something in the back of your head, which we cannot see, unless you let us know.
Byron Henderson (cuyama) has compiled a list of questions and issues, which you should address and answer for yourself. This will help you to find out, what you really want and why, thus forming a basis for further help.
You can find the questions here
to the site and back to Model Rail Roading.
As Mad dog stated, do some reading to find out what kind of railroad you want to model. I will give you a few tips I learned the hard way.
You did not stated what scale you are modeling. I have based my ideas on you having HO scale,not N scale.
1 Don't make the whole track 4 foot wide if 1 side is against a wall. It is all most impossible to do good scenery and lay the rail well when you lay on your stomach. Plus, if there is a derailment, it will be in the hardest spot to reach. Most people like to keep there bench 24" to 30" wide.
2 At the ends of the bench, try to make those sections 5 foot wide. Engines and cars will look better on bigger curves. Plus it puts less strain on the engines and the rolling stock. 48 inch wide bench will support a 22" turn where a 5 foot wide bench handle a 28" turn. Now, that is only leaving 2" on either side of the bench for a safety cushion. Might want to added a safety rail till you get good at laying track.
3 Instead of a L shape, looking at making it a slight V shape, so you have room at the end's for the 5 bloop's. (5 foot section)
4 Run two main lines, it gets boring watch only 1 train.
5 Use Flex Track. At first it is a little difficult to work with. But it is cheaper that sectional track, and the track that has the roadbed built in. Plus if you need a 20" 18" or what ever sizes turn you need, if you have flex track you can make it.
6 You are talking about a good sizes track. Make sure you have plenty of power feeder wires that go around the bench. Rather you use DC or DCC for power, then engines will run better. My self, I have a feeder wire ever 9 feet. Many will add a feeder for ever section of track.
Few things to think about or should I say daydream about. Do a lot of reading and ask questions.
You will need around $60.00 in specialty tools for MRR when you get started. When you are ready we will help fill up the shopping list.
Cuda Ken
I hate Rust
Hey welcome to the forum brother. You are in the same position my wife and I were in a few weeks ago. I got ahold of an older Bachman Golden Spike Trestle set at my dad's auction and it sent me back into memory bliss. Then I came here and found a huge amount of help and ideas. The guys here are great and have been very helpful. As far as layouts go, my wife and I are in a similar position. We are going with a "2-sheet" layout for now that will be detachable as we know we are moving in a few months, but refuse to wait to start our layout.
Good luck and keep us posted on how you do.
Shea
80ktsClampI found the Rancocas Harbor Belt on Atlas after getting frustrated trying to engineer my own layout, which is nearly exactly what I was trying to come up with.
I had a look at that plan on Atlas' web page.
From my point of view it is a pretty bad plan for the following reasons:
- It is a basically a loop layout on a table, mainly intended for "standing on a mountaintop" and watching a train loop around and around below you. Fun to build, most likely fairly boring to run after a short while - not much you can *do* on this layout.
- It would be very hard to create an illusion of a train (or trains) arriving from somewhere else into the area where you are, and departing from the area where you are towards somewhere else. No provisions for what is called "staging" - hidden tracks that represents "that way".
- Reach is pretty bad. You can comfortably reach about 20-24" in from the edge without knocking over scenery or trains. You can reach about 30-32" if there isn't too much in between, or if you can stand on a chair or something like that. Reaching across 3+ feet is not fun. neither when making a layout nor when running trains on a layout.
- For a table that is 8 x 8 feet, you would need a floor space that is 12 x 12 feet, even for pretty minimal 2 foot aisles all around the layout. This layout would use up a whole bedroom or a good chunk of a basement, without giving you a chance to let that layout co-exist with anything else (like storage above or below the layout, a workbench or whatever).
In short - I wouldn't recommend this layout plan. Which is not to say it would not work for you. Different people have different goals and like different things.
It probably would be a lot easier to make suggestions if you could tell us more about what:
1) How big your room is (not the layout space - the whole room), how it is shaped, where doors and windows are located, what other uses of the room the layout have to or should co-exist with and stuff like that, and
2) What do you want to be able to *do* with your trains. When you close your eyes and dream, what are you dreaming about?
Standing on a mountaintop watching a train loop around a race track below you? Standing somewhere and just watching several trains pass your location?
Being a train crew-member, setting out and picking up railroad cars from line-side industries?
Will you be running a train on your own or together with others?
Lots of stuff like that - the better you can describe your vision or goal, the easier it is to make suggestions.
There are three links in my signature below you might want to have a quick look at - they contain quite a bit of advice about track planning.
Welcome back to the hobby.
Smile, Stein, working on a switching layout inspired by the warehouse district of Minneapolis in the late 50s
HI!
Welcome to the Forum, and back to the Hobby! I've been playing with trains since the '50s, and am currently building a new HO layout.
May I say that everyone's taste in layouts is different as we all have personal likes and dislikes, and of course space, money, and time constraints. If I knew you and your situation well, I would be able to come up with suggestions, but then you would be building "my" layout and not yours.
As others suggested, I would first pick up a number of Kalmbach's more basic MR books. If money is a consideration, EBAY always has a ton of them out on auction. And the older versions are just fine, for the basics of layout design/construction are not a whole lot different today as they were yesterday.
The big change over the last 10 years is the growth of DCC operation (as opposed to DC). I recently changed to DCC, and am glad I did - but that doesn't mean you should do that. So again, reading up on the subject is strongly suggested.
Like a lot of folks on this forum, I've been in the hobby for years and built a number of layouts. While the urge to start "cutting wood" and laying tracks is strong, I urge you to:
- build your knowledge base first, then design your layout (there are a lot of layout books out there that you can copy or adjust to fit your requirements)
- determine the type layout you want, scale, time frame, and railroad to model. In example, you may choose the Santa Fe, circa 1950, in HO, and the southwest. Or, you may choose the D&RGS in the 1930s, O gauge, and in the Colorado mountains, etc., etc., etc.
- design the layout in scale format. Do not "cheat" on curve radii or turnout constraints. If you optomistic on your drawings, your layout just won't turn out correctly.
- prepare the room! Ideally, a walled room with covered ceiling and sealed floor with heat & AC and lots of outlets will make your layout 100% better than without.
- build the benchwork, use reasonable quality materials, and take your time.
- lay roadbed, track, wire, and test, test, test before going further. Make sure your "good enough" level is sufficiently high, or you will suffer from it for the duration of the layouts.
- put in scenery, structures, and ENJOY !!!
Hey, the above is an ideal guideline (in my opinion), and while you may choose your own way, consider the advice of the folks on this Forum - for it is usually right on the money.
Mobilman44
ENJOY !
Living in southeast Texas, formerly modeling the "postwar" Santa Fe and Illinois Central
I, too, would advise against a strictly canned layout. It was designed by someone else, and can therefore never be exactly what you want or need.
They can, however, serve as a great source of inspiration. Pull an idea from one layout, a scenic element from another, and industrial area from a third, and make it your own.
Ultimately, though, only you can decide what suits your needs and taste. For myself, while I enjoy switching and car pick-ups or set outs, I also want to be able to have trains go in a circle. A little clever scenery work (many different options here) can disguise the fact that your trains are going in a circle.
For the impending moves, you have a couple of options. The first is to consider your first layout an experiment, and expect to rip it up and start over when you move. Sounds drastic, but I ended up starting over on my layout a few years ago, because I just couldn't overcome many of the design limitations of my original attempt. Secondly, you can build a true modular layout, with each section able to be detached from the others and moved separately. 4x4 is probably about as big as you'd ever want to go on one of these. Finally, you can just build the layout, then saw it into pieces for the move and reasemble it at your destination, repairing the places you had to cut up.
On the reach issue, pay attention to what the previous posters have said. If you have some extra money, though, this item is very useful, although pricey.
Welcome to the hobby, and good luck! Don't be afraid to ask questions. Just remember, the more specific your questions, the better the answers will be. And that no one can design your layout for you -- we can only tell you what works for us.
Connecticut Valley Railroad A Branch of the New York, New Haven, and Hartford
"If you think you can do a thing or think you can't do a thing, you're right." -- Henry Ford
For starters I'd set up an oval, oil the engines and give them a run to see how things are so you know where you stand. Make sure the track and joiners as well as the loco wheels are good and clean before starting.
Springfield PA
Welcome back! To give you an idea of what is possible in contrast to the canned Atlas plans, check the Salt Lake Route in MRR (either online or in the early 2010 issues). It is N-gauge but will give you an idea of one possible approach to your desert theme. Of course, there are many others in the same 2 resources.
Dante
80ktsClamp My favorite memories of railroads are from driving out west when I was younger. Think desert/mountains type setting...especially Arizona and Utah... and in a modern setting.
To get an impression of a more modern style of layout than the Atlas track plans, have a look at some of the layout photos on this Austrian model railroader Franz Reichl's travelogue from a summer of layout visits in the US in 2001:
http://www.8ung.at/golden_spike/us_2001.htm
Note that a trend if you want a layout for operations (ie to simulate real train movements) is to often go for relatively long and narrow benchwork along the walls and along peninsulas.
Some western prototype examples:
Len Applebaum's "New Mexico Western":
Randy Meyer's "Canyon and Rocky Mountain Railroad":
Mike Peter's "Wyoming Rail Link":
Eric Broman's ever changing "Utah Belt Railroad" (2001 edition):
Jim Budde's "Kansas, Santa Fe and Pacific":
To be sure, one can make a lot of other styles of layout. But this is the modern tendency - narrower bench work along walls and peninsulas, trying to model a railroad more than having train doing an amusement park ride while crisscrossing it's own track again and again.
Another modern tendency (last 50 years ...) is to go for smaller scales. If what you want is to run longish trains through the scenery, going N scale (1:160) instead of H0 scale (1:87.1) tends to give you a lot more options in a given space.
The classic minimum loop on a table is in H0 scale often 4x6 or 4x8 feet. Needs to be about that big to allow turnback curves on the ends to be 20+ inches radius (ie 44-48 inches diameter, when you include a 2" safety zone along the edges of the table).
Since you cannot reach well across 4 feet of layout, you need aisles down both sides of the layout. Now you need 8 x 10 feet of floor space for that small 4x8 foot table.
Going N scale instead of H0 scale means that okay return loops can be 11-13" radius (less than 30" diameter, including a safety zone of a couple of inches on each side).
It now becomes practical to reach across a return loop from one side only.
So you can e.g. have a loop on table layout built on a 30" x 7 foot hollow core door, pushed into a corner of a room. Even allowing for a 2 foot aisle along the front, your total space need now is 4.5 x 7 feet (31.5 square feet), compared with the 80 square feet of the 4x8 with access aisles.
And since N scale can fit about 1.8 times (160 / 87.1) times the amount of track length in a given room length, the 30" x 7 foot layout in N scale is the equivalent of a about a 5 x 12 foot layout in H0 scale, with regards to what you can fit in there of sidings and spurs and yard ladders and stuff like that.
A layout will cost you a lot of time and money over time.Unless you have a very big collection of engines and cars from before, the cost of swapping scales might be fairly low relative to how much money you will end up sinking into a layout total.
So exploring a change of scales might very well be worth exploring too, even though you have some H0 scale trains from before.
Just a handful of suggestions. Doesn't mean that this is the right or only approach.
Smile, Stein
Welcome to the forums. Glad the old "bug" got to you again.
If you think you are going to be moving the layout, anytime, build with that in mind and it should be no problem. There are several ways to do this, go to the search function to the right and search for "modular layouts", "portable layouts" and similar terms. Go to a train show and talk to the folks that have a layout setup, it is a modular and are made to move easily. There may even be a book on building them, not sure.
I would suggest using 2" foam insulation board (blue or pink) for your base and giving each section a frame which supports and surrounds it to protect it during moves. You can buy it in 2'x8' sheets at most building supply stores. 8' is a little long to handle moving a layout around, through doors, etc, especially after it has been scenicked. I would suggest making it a 6' piece and using the 2' to carve up and make your terrain forms.
I would recommend looking into shelf layouts. They offer more operational choices and better use of most spaces.
Good luck,
Wow! Thanks for all the great replies and making me feel right at home. You guys are awesome. So many things to consider...
The room is in an unfinished portion of the basement, although the basement is very well insulated. It never gets very cold down there in the winter nor hot in the summer. Also there are no moisture or humidity problems. The space I have to work with is 11' down a wall with windows, and then it is 13 feet deep. In one corner is the A/C unit and water heater. The 11' is a self imposed restriction as the room continues on down actually more than additional 15 feet, but the 11 foot mark is where the utility doors are and on the other side of the room is all my yard equipment.
I would prefer HO scale- I have a nice variety of engines as well as about 30 or so cars. I like the size of them and the way it looks. Also, with the way the room is, something going around the walls is not an option... hence refining what I consider "optimum" into an L or modified L layout. The 8 foot and 8 foot outer dimensions of the L will permit enough walkaround space to access the entire layout. Obviously, it doesnt have to be a perfect L, but that is what looks like will fit best in the room while still being able to access the layout. I do like the modified V as well as the setup on the "Chippewa Central" from the MRR "basic model layouts book. As far as N scale layouts- I LOVE the Silver City Central from the same book, and I also like the Mineral Range Route from the Atlas N scale Code 80 tracks. If I could do something like the Silver City in a workable HO layout, I'd jump on that tomorrow.
As far as operations- I don't particularly mind the "loop" concept, as I'm not looking to perfectly model real world ops. I work in a very mission oriented field, and this is something I'm looking to do to relax and enjoy, haha.
The reason why the rancocas layout stood out to me (certainly not perfect) is that it satisfied a number of things that I would like. The things I want to be able to do are this:
1. not a standard 4x8 or or simple oval. something that is more "interesting"2. a mix of mainline operations and switching2.5. Modern in the sense of contemporary look of buildings and equipment. As far as doing a shelf or around the walls layout, that isn't workable in any place in the house that my wife won't kill me for putting it up in there... 3. the ability to build in southwestern mountain, valley/canyon scenery and wind around and through it. 4. room restrictions are previously outlined earlier in this post 5. be able to split it to carry it out in the event of moving or finishing the basement (not something bearing down, but absolutely future consideration. I'm 29 years old, married with no kids yet...so we've got a lot coming down the piper in the future, hopefully)6. I have very limited design knowledge myself as far as the track and what's required, so extensively modifying or freelancing a design is a bit out of my league right now.
Ok...that's enough for now... I'll be around the computer for the rest of the evening. Thanks again for the feedback and suggestions. It's given me a lot to think about so far.
Hmm - trying to visualize your room. Is this how it looks:
What is wrong with the drawing above? Reverse anything? Any other doors or windows you need to take into account?
What's on or along the 13 foot walls?
Smile, Stein, curious
Thanks much for the quick reply!
The A/C and water heater actually are in the 0' 0' corner and go along the 13 foot wall for around 4ish feet. Beyond that, it is bare concrete until the meeting the outside wall with the windows. The wall opposite the windows has the entry way and is just open studs.
-Denny
80ktsClamp The A/C and water heater actually are in the 0' 0' corner and go along the 13 foot wall for around 4ish feet. Beyond that, it is bare concrete until the meeting the outside wall with the windows. The wall opposite the windows has the entry way and is just open studs.
Mmm - are you saying that the entire lower wall in the drawing is open to the rest of the house (so there in principle e.g. would be no problem blocking off direct walking access between the layout area and the yard tools area along the dividing line between the two areas, e.g by a table along the dividing line, with access to one end of the table from the yard storage area?
What's beyond the studs?
Are the windows along the left end of the top wall the only windows in the entire area? Ie - do you need light from those windows to reach the yard tool area and maybe the area behind the studs?
How big and high are those windows? Would it be possible to put a table or shelves under the windows along that wall?
Water heater and AC - 4 feet up along left wall from (0,0) corner. How far out from the left wall do these stick - 2 feet or so, plus another foot or two of safety zone, or more ?
Any shelves or anything on or along the rest of that left concrete wall?
Btw - forums will go down on Monday and stay down until Tuesday afternoon for an upgrade of software.
The entire lower wall is just studs and the entry way which is about 5 feet over. On the other side is a smaller studded in bathroom area that is pre plumbed and set up for being finished in the future.
Light would be preferred from the windows- there are two large ones that go from about 2.5 feet off the floor up to around 7 feet up the wall.
I would say that the AC sticks out 3 feet and the heater sticks out around 2.5 feet. No shelves or antyhing... just bare concrete once you get past the pipes associated with the heating and air area.
Thanks!!
Okay, trying to summarize available room in a drawing:
Do you need access from the entry door on the lower left along the lower wall to the yard equipment area to the right?
Do you need access to the windows to open them or wash them or any such thing?
Will it be possible to use 2 or 3 feet of floor space to the right of the dividing line as aisle while operating trains on a table along the dividing line?
Ie - is the requirement for the border 11 foot into the room that no benchwork may cross the line (or at lest not cross that line within e.g. 5 feet of the utility doors)?
Or is it that you need the space right up to the edge of that line for storage from the yard storage side, so you might even want to have a little space between that line and the layout?
Would it e.g. be an option to put a light wall (perhaps with a couple of small windows near the top) down along the dividing line between yard storage area and layout area?
The reason why I am asking all these questions is to try to understand which space limitations are absolute (givens), and which are druthers ("I'd rather not").
steinjr Do you need access from the entry door on the lower left along the lower wall to the yard equipment area to the right? Do you need access to the windows to open them or wash them or any such thing? Will it be possible to use 2 or 3 feet of floor space to the right of the dividing line as aisle while operating trains on a table along the dividing line? Ie - is the requirement for the border 11 foot into the room that no benchwork may cross the line (or at lest not cross that line within e.g. 5 feet of the utility doors)? Or is it that you need the space right up to the edge of that line for storage from the yard storage side, so you might even want to have a little space between that line and the layout? Would it e.g. be an option to put a light wall (perhaps with a couple of small windows near the top) down along the dividing line between yard storage area and layout area? The reason why I am asking all these questions is to try to understand which space limitations are absolute (givens), and which are druthers ("I'd rather not"). Smile, Stein
Wow! You are good!
I do require access from the entry door...around 3 feet of clearance is required, as there is no actual "door."
Space to the right of the dividing line is 100% up for grabs for walking space. The dividing line is simply the limit for any structures!
As far as putting up a wall, that is definitely not an option.
I'm quite intrigued as to what is running through your head-- thanks again for taking this time for a complete stranger!
80ktsClamp I'm quite intrigued as to what is running through your head-- thanks again for taking this time for a complete stranger!
No problem, Denny. I enjoy track planning.
Don't have any track plan suggestions for you yet, but I figured that even if I don't come up with a plan right away, exploring the available space and your wishes for the layout will be helpful anyways.
Let's move over to what you want to model. I know you want modern trains, you want the western (or maybe even southwestern) look - ie dry and/or mountainous.
You want running, maybe with some switching, but running through mountains is the main thing, right?
Do you visualize being at the end of a railroad line (where the trains turn), or somewhere in the middle of a railroad line (where trains pass through)?
Do you visualize walking along with and following a single train as it enters an area (from somewhere down the line), snakes through the landscape, and leaves the area (for somewhere up the line) ?
Or do you visualize standing at one spot and watching several trains arrive come from somewhere else (perhaps coming out of a tunnel or around a curve or something), passing by your location one after the other (or at the same time, in opposite directions, on a double track section), before they head off somewhere else?
I'll have some more questions for you later (after the forums come up again on Tuesday afternoon American time - ie the night between Tuesday and Wednesday my time) - hope you won't get too tired of all these questions :-) Smile, Stein
steinjr 80ktsClamp I'm quite intrigued as to what is running through your head-- thanks again for taking this time for a complete stranger! No problem, Denny. I enjoy track planning. Don't have any track plan suggestions for you yet, but I figured that even if I don't come up with a plan right away, exploring the available space and your wishes for the layout will be helpful anyways. Let's move over to what you want to model. I know you want modern trains, you want the western (or maybe even southwestern) look - ie dry and/or mountainous. You want running, maybe with some switching, but running through mountains is the main thing, right? Do you visualize being at the end of a railroad line (where the trains turn), or somewhere in the middle of a railroad line (where trains pass through)? Do you visualize walking along with and following a single train as it enters an area (from somewhere down the line), snakes through the landscape, and leaves the area (for somewhere up the line) ? Or do you visualize standing at one spot and watching several trains arrive come from somewhere else (perhaps coming out of a tunnel or around a curve or something), passing by your location one after the other (or at the same time, in opposite directions, on a double track section), before they head off somewhere else? I'll have some more questions for you later (after the forums come up again on Tuesday afternoon American time - ie the night between Tuesday and Wednesday my time) - hope you won't get too tired of all these questions :-) Smile, Stein
Here is a scene that well illustrates what is running through my head, although during the "mainline" representation portion of the track with a double track.
I think track planning is something I could really enjoy in the future, but I do not have enough knowledge yet to appropriately design anything that I like off of a clean sheet.
As far as what I want to represent, there is certainly the southwestern (I also love the area around Salt Lake City and Provo) feel that I would like, but I also would like to incorporate at least a town, some industries, and a yard and switching. The switching doesnt have to be crazy, but something like in the Rancocas Harbor setup or that N-scale setup is plenty.
The great thing is that you are jogging my mind to further develop what I would like!
Another factor to be considered is I do have a DD40. Someone previously mentioned 5 foot wide "fat ends" for the turnaround areas to be able to support longer trains and, in my case, a fatty locomotive. While I won't be sticking solely to one company operating the tracks (my step-grandfather was Seaboard Coast Lines of which I have a very nice engine, as well as some Chessie System engines), UP and Southern Pacific have a very close place in my heart for what I witnessed when I was younger.
I'm going to be getting a big bill in the mail for layout consulting, aren't I?
Hey Denny, glad to see you are not a one time poster.
More than likely will not see a reply till Tuesday. How tall do you want your layout, and how tall could you stand? Are you worried about blocking the windows? Also how tall is your yard equipment? Is there any reason you could not store some of the equipment under a train bench?
Being a train nut as well. looking at your spaces has my mind turning.
Denny,
Lots of people love track planning, but we can't do more than just plan, since most of us don't really want to tear down our layouts just because we get the urge to design something.
I was just thinking yesterday that I wished I had something to design. I'll throw some ideas out as well while the forums are down. Again, though, we're just throwing out ideas to stimulate thought. The actual design, whether we spark a totally new idea or you just modify a pre-made design, has to come from you.
As far as which trains you are running, there's no law that says you have to model reality. My own layout is a "what if". Admittedly, Chessie / SCL (both predecessors to CSX, as you probably know) in the West is a bit of a stretch. But long about the time the modern Norfolk Southern and CSX were wrangling over the division of Conrail, there was some talk of one or both finding a merger parner in the West to form a Megarailroad. Perhaps in your world, you have a Burlington Northern Santa Fe Chessie Seaboard (BNSFCS?)? Railroads don't instantly repaint their equipment when they merge, so having BNSF (Or BN and SF, Chessie and SCL) paint schemes all at once wouldn't be that un-protoypical. The real problem with this approach is that the new railroad would likely want it's own paint scheme after a while.... and you'd have to design it an paint some locos. Hows that for a challenge?
Welcome!
Atlas is a great company. They make a lot of nice products with reasonable prices. Their trackplans, however, are not really the best choice. It would be better to search the trackplan database and or review as many books/magazines as possible.
Since you can use the space to the right for walking, that helps a lot for access. Maybe for accessing staging, if you know what that is.
It seems like you want what is called a "railfanning" layout, where you tend to kick back and watch different trains/ locomotives/rolling stock run through scenery; rather than shunting cars back and forth when switching industries.
And, if you really want to run that DD40, I don't think you really have enough space to have a dogbone shaped layout, or any plan with a lot of over/under to it. I don't think the turn back blobs could be big enough to accomodate the broad radius curves that are needed.
You might be looking at a donut shaped layout, with an operating pit in the middle, and staging along the right behind a backdrop.
But others are better at visualizing this than I am.
- Douglas
I admit it.... real life (and Cub Scouts) caught up with me and I didn't do much more than get your layout space drawn into AnyRail. Most likely, it will be this weekend before I get anything else done.
Sorry to raise false hopes! Maybe Stein will come through for you.
I am new to the hobby too and not to mechanically inclined so I bought the Atlas ho kit #1 which is just an oval with 2 spurs and will go from there as that layout is expandable just to about anything you want to do and am looking at making one that depicts the Canadian Rockies
This is not really a serious proposal for you, just an attempt to get an impression of how big the available space is if we plan for a H0 scale DD40X pulling a train of ten 40-foot cars
We see that if we go twice around, the total run length still is only about 7 or 8 train lengths, even for a fairly short train of 10 cars.
N scale would have given a more impressive train of 15-18 cars in the same space you get a 10 car train in H0 scale, and have allowed curve radii down to about 15" instead of 25-26", allowing a far longer mainline run.
Quick sketch of N scale DDX40 and fifteen 40-foot cars on an E-shaped walk-in plan.
Aisles are pretty narrow (24"), so it is possible it would have been smart to drop the peninsula for an U-shaped layout instead.
24" aisles is tight for one operator, not a good idea for more than one operator.
Anyways - just some rough sketches to make you think about some options for getting a longish run and room for industries without cramming it all onto a big table in the middle of the room. The benchwork I have shown does not have to be shelves - it may just as well be on free standing tables.
Very interesting.. the second one really got my brain churning and also started getting me going on being able to imagine more what is possible with the space. Additionally I can see a layout like that being able to built "modular" without many issues.
I have a couple modifications to the room as I went and got refined measurements tonight.
The area is exactly 12 feet 8 inches from the back wall with the door to the front "window" wall. Then the "window wall to the beginning of the utility area is 13 feet 4 inches.
The airconditioning/water heater complex extends 3 feet out to toward the door, and up the wide wall it extends 6 feet, with the last 2 feet being only 2 feet wide. Also, there is a pipe going into the floor against the front left corner of the room (near the windows) that takes out a 1 foot square area in the corner.
Running the DD40X isnt a strict requirement, or the main thing I plan on running. Is there anyway you could take the peninsula layout and just have the outer peninsula be the "mainline" DD40X loop and shortline smaller town area on the peninsula?
What I mean is, it's not required to have the real heavy mainline able to support very long trains and the big motors extend throughout the whole layout.
All in all... really amazing job!
Doughless Welcome! Atlas is a great company. They make a lot of nice products with reasonable prices. Their trackplans, however, are not really the best choice. It would be better to search the trackplan database and or review as many books/magazines as possible. Since you can use the space to the right for walking, that helps a lot for access. Maybe for accessing staging, if you know what that is. It seems like you want what is called a "railfanning" layout, where you tend to kick back and watch different trains/ locomotives/rolling stock run through scenery; rather than shunting cars back and forth when switching industries. And, if you really want to run that DD40, I don't think you really have enough space to have a dogbone shaped layout, or any plan with a lot of over/under to it. I don't think the turn back blobs could be big enough to accomodate the broad radius curves that are needed. You might be looking at a donut shaped layout, with an operating pit in the middle, and staging along the right behind a backdrop. But others are better at visualizing this than I am.
I definitely like the Atlas track that I've seen so far. I gota chance to get my hands on one of their books today for trackplans, and I definitely agree. Neat ideas.. but something is a bit off as you've stated.
A railfanning layout is definitely a bit of what I'm looking for, and stein is barking up the right tree. A donut layout I think is also a possibility, but it can't be a full donut.
As far as staging, I would prefer to instead utilize an actual yard on the layout and not hidden for staging. Real estate is critical, and I just can't say I like the idea of staging for what I will be using the layout for. Having a fully functional yard incorporated into the layout I think will be optimum usage as well as more what I'm looking for in general.
Just my personal tastes so far.. and I am truly impressed with the kindness and creativity of people in this hobby. It's extremely refreshing!
OK, here's just something I threw together quickly. I left out crossovers and kept curves at 24" radius and #8 turnouts so your DD40 could manage. At the top, I tried to incorprate the sweeping vistas you were looking for, while giving your trainss something to do at the bottom.
Food for thought. On the left is a tableland / mesa with a hidden track underneath it (you could make it a tunnel or not). This gives you some staging if you want trains to show up. You could also disconnect one end and have this line run down to some real staging underneath. Also, I did use double crossovers, which can be a lot of trouble to wire.
And, of course, you'd have to duck under to get into the middle.
Looks like the donut is the way to go. I'm working on a modified version of what you did since the A/C and heater actually extend 6 feet off the back wall instead of 3.
Beautiful design!