On my contemplated new layout, I want to model my freight yard more prototypically than I do on my current layout.
If I lay my main line track on Woodland Scenics Foam Track Bed (5mm depth) and ballast it, how do I model the transition from the main line to a turnout into and out of a double end track yard. In other words, how do I bring the grade down from the foam track bed (main line) to the plywood surface (yard) and where does the main line ballast end and the yard surface (cinders, stone, whatever) begin? Is the transition gradual or abrupt?
Thanks.
Rich
Alton Junction
Your 5 mm foam road bed depth is not especially generous to begin with, but your elevation reduction into the yard, in scale, only needs to be about a mm, maybe two. So, you can find something else, or sand down something yet again. Some use cork sheeting that is, say, 3 mm thick.
As for the transition, it should be sanded to a 2% grade, maybe 3% at most. Meaning, your reduction from 5mm to 3mm might take (just guessing here...) 7-9" of a ramp. With vertical curves for smoothness at each end, that might lengthen to 12".
-Crandell
Here I lowered the cork into the foam going down to the yard level. Take out the mallet and chisel and have a go at your plywood and lower the foam roadbed into it. It should be quick and easy.
I use caulk to hold down the cork and fill any dips in the trench that may have occurred. I would think caulk would be a good leveler on plywood also.
I have also used an 18" cedar shake in one spot, but it is not nearly as nice a transition as doing it the other way.
Brent
"All of the world's problems are the result of the difference between how we think and how the world works."
selector Your 5 mm foam road bed depth is not especially generous to begin with, but your elevation reduction into the yard, in scale, only needs to be about a mm, maybe two. So, you can find something else, or sand down something yet again. Some use cork sheeting that is, say, 3 mm thick. As for the transition, it should be sanded to a 2% grade, maybe 3% at most. Meaning, your reduction from 5mm to 3mm might take (just guessing here...) 7-9" of a ramp. With vertical curves for smoothness at each end, that might lengthen to 12". -Crandell
Crandell,
When you say that the 5mm road bed depth is not especially generous to begin with, are you saying that the mainline roadbed should be higher than 5mm?
BATMAN Here I lowered the cork into the foam going down to the yard level. Take out the mallet and chisel and have a go at your plywood and lower the foam roadbed into it. It should be quick and easy. I use caulk to hold down the cork and fill any dips in the trench that may have occurred. I would think caulk would be a good leveler on plywood also. I have also used an 18" cedar shake in one spot, but it is not nearly as nice a transition as doing it the other way. Brent
Brent,
Thanks. That is very helpful.
Another question. Say that there is a turnout off the main line leading to the yard ladder. At what point does the main line ballast end and the yard surface begin?
Also, regarding ballast, if you have a double main line with a crossover and the ballast between the two main line tracks is separated by a culvert covered in grass and weeds, do you completely ballast the crossover and install a pipe beneath the ballast to permit rain water in the culvert to flow uninterrupted?
Rich.
richhotrainWoodland Scenics Foam Track Bed (5mm depth) and ballast it
I hope you have better luck with yours then I did with mine. I put some on one of my modules and ended up with slight dips where I put the weights on it when glued down. I didn't notice the dips until after ballasting and scenery. From then on it has been cork only for me. My mains are on the cork and yards are on the flat either plywood or extruded foam. The transitions from cork to flat yards and sidings were done with tapered shims. A bag of the shims at Home depot was only a buck or two and will last you a lifetime. Cut and trim first then paint both sides of the shim so they won't warp if they get soaked. The ones I have on my modules are several years old and never failed me yet.
Pete
I pray every day I break even, Cause I can really use the money!
I started with nothing and still have most of it left!
I now use only Homabed as opposed to cork, that Woodlands stuff just doesn't do it for me, I have heard of a lot of guys having trouble with it. California roadbed company who makes Homabed offers just such transition pieces that your talking about. When I used to use cork I would take a long sanding block.(the longer the block the less severe the angle will be? simply sand the roadbed until you reach the yard level. Obviously the less angel you have the easier the transition will be.providing you have the room to do so.
Thank you -- I was not aware of the Homabed transition piece until you mentioned it. It is some time since I visited their website: http://www.homabed.com/site/890800/page/930367
Too bad the LHS does not carry Homabed as I'd really like to look over the various options.
Dave Nelson
On my previous layout, I used the Woodland Scenics HO roadbed under the main and the N scale sheets under my yard. Transition used a piece of the N scale roadbed shimmed up with cardboard. Can't really see any of the shimmign in any of the pictures on my site, but you can see that I pasted the foam sheets over the entire yard area rather than under individual tracks. And then I took some of the N scale regular strips and split them and used it to edge around the yard perimeter, bevel out.
--Randy
Modeling the Reading Railroad in the 1950's
Visit my web site at www.readingeastpenn.com for construction updates, DCC Info, and more.
richhotrainThanks. That is very helpful. Another question. Say that there is a turnout off the main line leading to the yard ladder. At what point does the main line ballast end and the yard surface begin? Also, regarding ballast, if you have a double main line with a crossover and the ballast between the two main line tracks is separated by a culvert covered in grass and weeds, do you completely ballast the crossover and install a pipe beneath the ballast to permit rain water in the culvert to flow uninterrupted? Rich
I am sure there is probably some regulation as to how far the "grade A" ballast must extend off the main. However life experience tells me the good stuff would end when the crews ran out of the supply they brought with them. As a result I would not model a uniformed distance for all my turnouts and have each one different.
As far as drainage goes, ballast is drainage material all on its own. In agricultural areas I have seen drainage ditches dug and filled with 3" gravel covered with cloth and then dirt. No pipes at all. I think drainage concerns would be addressed on a case by case bases.
Out here on the rugged wet coast of Canada, just about every where you see a rail line the terrain falls away next to it. This can be anywhere from a gentle slope to a cliff. The perk rate out here is awesome so standing water is less of an issue than say in the farm belt.
Culverts would be used where the profile of the road bed is low and thus may have a damming effect. You would then have ditches that would require maintenance. Just my.
Brtent
this is how the real railroads do it, cheaply. Most main to yard transitions I've seen just happen all of a sudden, as soon as the main line rails are clear of the last long tie of the yard switch it immediatly drops into the usual crappy yard tracks. The transition from the Amtrak main to the yard in Adams NJ is particularly rough.
The Dixie D Short Line "Lux Lucet In Tenebris Nihil Igitur Mors Est Ad Nos 2001"
richhotrainAlso, regarding ballast, if you have a double main line with a crossover and the ballast between the two main line tracks is separated by a culvert covered in grass and weeds, do you completely ballast the crossover and install a pipe beneath the ballast to permit rain water in the culvert to flow uninterrupted?
Not sure I fully understand the question. Drainage ditches would not be between the tracks but off to the side. However if a connecting track did need to cross a drainage ditch there would be a pipe or culvert to continue the ditch below the tracks.
Chris van der Heide
My Algoma Central Railway Modeling Blog
I found that cabinet shims make pretty good transition grade road bed. They can be found at any of the big box stores. However, be very careful with the vertical curves. I had a couple that were a little too agressive and I had to trim them down to get 6-axle locos to run on them without derailing. In one instance that was okay because I wasn't going to route a six-axle loco into a minimal siding.
dknelsonThank you -- I was not aware of the Homabed transition piece until you mentioned it. It is some time since I visited their website: http://www.homabed.com/site/890800/page/930367 Too bad the LHS does not carry Homabed as I'd really like to look over the various options. Dave Nelson
Dave,
If you call Richard the owner of California roadbed company he does send out samples I can't recall that may even be indicated on his website You can only buy Homabed from him directly. I used to make my own Homasote roadbed but anyone who has been in the hobby for any length of time will tell you that cutting Homasote on a table saw is not an experience that you want to have to repeat. His pieces are cleaner and more precise then you could ever hope to get by doing it yourself. I have also found his yard panels to be useful as well
Maybe I'm missing something here, but I intend to avoid a sharp gradient by making the transition with scenery. Here's the raw benchwork in which 1/2" Homosote over 1/2" ply transitions to the main:
I have been using 1/4" thick Homabed for my mainline and 3/16" thick cork roadbed for the yard tracks and sidings. I lay the Homabed about 12-16" into the siding, then use the standard corr roadbed for the rest of the siding. I use a Sureform tool to sand down the Homabed so that I have a smooth transition into the siding. I like to have the siding a little lower than the main track. I have even sanded cork down to the plywood subroadbed on my layout. One of the problems with Woodland Scenics foam roadbed is that it does not sand too well with a Sureform tool or a power tool like a B&D 'Mouse' - it 'tears' up. I use an 80 grit sanding sheet to make quick work of the material for the transition.
Jim
Modeling BNSF and Milwaukee Road in SW Wisconsin
richhotrainCrandell, When you say that the 5mm road bed depth is not especially generous to begin with, are you saying that the mainline roadbed should be higher than 5mm? Rich
Oops...I have neglected to return to this thread until just now. Sorry, Rich. Yes, I would think something closer to 6-7 mm would be closer to a typical groomed ballast height, especially on heavily used main lines with high tonnages. The timber cross-ties might be heavier, so deeper, and the ballast that much deeper. On a lightly used siding, much less, a moderately used short line, something in between.
selector richhotrain Crandell, When you say that the 5mm road bed depth is not especially generous to begin with, are you saying that the mainline roadbed should be higher than 5mm? Rich Oops...I have neglected to return to this thread until just now. Sorry, Rich. Yes, I would think something closer to 6-7 mm would be closer to a typical groomed ballast height, especially on heavily used main lines with high tonnages. The timber cross-ties might be heavier, so deeper, and the ballast that much deeper. On a lightly used siding, much less, a moderately used short line, something in between. -Crandell
richhotrain Crandell, When you say that the 5mm road bed depth is not especially generous to begin with, are you saying that the mainline roadbed should be higher than 5mm? Rich
I have been waiting patiently for your response, and I have tried valiantly to overlook your continuing snub.
Seriously, though, I have been wondering about your initial comment, so I appreciate your reply. If 6mm to 7mm is more like the prototype, I wonder why Woodland Scenics only sets the height of its foam Track Bed at 5mm. In any event, I will keep that in mind. Thanks again.
The minimum vertical distance between side ditch and bottom of the ties was 18 inches, about 5 mm or a quarter inch in HO scale. It was often greater after several re-ballastings. But let's not forget fills over ground depressions, so often the track could be at a significantly greater height over the immediate terrain.
There is a diagram for roadbed contours on page 46 of Kalmbach's Trackwork and Lineside Detail for Your Model Railroad.
Mark
fkrallMaybe I'm missing something here, but I intend to avoid a sharp gradient by making the transition with scenery.
I agree with this approach. Instead of ramping down into the yard, simply bring the yard up a bit. If you like the WS roadbed, you can buy it in sheets to do this. Or, you can go to a craft store and get sheets of 1/4-inch foam poster board.
Changing elevation, even a little bit, always makes it harder to get your track just right. When you're dealing with a yard throat, you may also have an issue if you want to locate a magnet there for uncoupling. You may find yourself dealing with "runaways", or you may have difficulty with "delayed" uncoupling as a result of the slope.
It takes an iron man to play with a toy iron horse.
Me too.
I successfully(so far! ) used HO cork roadbed for the main and transitioned it directly into Woodland Scenics black N-scale foam bed for the entire yard. I also went from code 83 to code 70 after the switches in the yard and used transiton joiners that seemed to smooth everything out OK.
Just my