Hi, this is my first post, and I would like to start by saying Really appreciate all the great things I have read on this forum prior to this post. That being said, I have a space limitation. I have a 10'x13' room, with two walls occupied, one with closets, and the other is a required walk way through the room. It is a 'mud room' with 2 entry points.
I have decided I can squeeze in about a 5.5'x9' layout in there, but it has to be cornered. I had initially though 4'x8', but after reading here and other places, i realized I would not be able to get the type of operation that I had desired.
This is what I am shooting for:
Ok, I know I have space limitations, but i was thinking of doing a donut layout...similar to the 'Heart of Georgia Rail Road". I can make a 36" square in the middle of my layout, or even a bit bigger. I Can crawl under, no physical limitations...this would give me easy access to every section of the layout, since it needs to be in a corner. I can make the long side the narrow side and still have 24" radius turns on the outside. My initial plan was the Atlas 'Trunk Line", and I have used there software to c reate a comparable layout on a 5.5x9' board.
Has anyone ever done a donut on a 5.5'x9' board? does any one have any other ideas?
I have a room schematic if needed or desired. Thanks so much for your help, the layouts I have seen here and elsewhere are a true inspiration. I have waited about 20 years to do this, I cant wait to get started and buy my benchwork.
If it were me, I'd do it as you describe. I don' like low radius curves, which for me would be less than 26". I was also granted a corner of our basement. I would have needed curves down to about 24" had I made anything except my central operating pit surrounded by four rectangular modules bolted together.
I could do without the duck-under, to be frank, but it is a small price to pay in order to enjoy being surrounded by a layout with scenery and sweeping curves. With some thinking, you can still have a rudimentary switching and storage yard, and even maybe some temporary shelving to serve as a staging element. And with the space you describe, you can have a small urban setting and some industrial servicing.
Just take your time and work out the details. Think of curves and inner tracks parallel and what that will mean to the inner radius. Frog angles will be important, but I'll bet you could use #6 turnouts easily, and they will handle virtually any engine you can find, except maybe a 10-coupled expensive brass steamer.
It must be an exciting time for you!
-Crandell
Thanks so much for your reply. I just wanted to see if any one had some input on the feasiblity of my duck under layout. I can have 9 sq ft in the middle, amybe a little more, and still get a 24" outside radius and a smaller yard for swtiching. I also figured out a way to service a few industries. I am having trouble on the inside radius for the parallel track, but I am working on it. I may just start with the oval and build from there. I would like to be able to experiment with scenery, as this is my first layout, and this will give me the ablity to have about 4 unique areas. I really wanted as realistic operation as possible, and that just was not going to happen with a 4x8. and I am just under 6ft x 9ft...I think I can make a pretty darn nice layout, at least a nice 1st layout. Thanks again!
If a liftout section is not possible or too difficult, I would set the layout height as high as possible to make the duck more of a "nod". Try to mock up a test shelf at varying heights and see how bad the duck is vs reach across the shelf. You could also turn it into a "roll under" by getting one of those stools on casters that doctors seem to have.
I was wondering how much "mud" gets in your mud room, as well as how much family traffic goes in and out. Dirt and accidents (I'm picturing my 7th grader's book bag) could be detrimental to the layout.
Have fun!
With your 6x9 you can do more than you think while you plot to take over more basement. I started with 4x4 in N gauge and quickly went to 8x8 in Ho and eventually bridged to another 7x10 section. Always looking for ways to expand . While some don't like under a certain radius, it all depends on what you plan on running. I run 22 inch min radius and have everything from MP15Dc switchers to GP40's, SD70Ace's, AC6000's and a recent Y6B steamer and run without any problems. It's your little railroad and you can do what you want with it. I would suggest that you paint the walls a sky blue color as a minimum unless you are putting in a backdrop. The light colors will make the room look larger and make any pictures stand out better.
Good Luck with it.
Springfield PA
Thanks for your input, I am 6'3" tall, and I have thought of that. I am young enough where bending in and crawling doesnt hurt yet, but, I am going to need to work in that space as well. So, I was thinking about it being about 4 foot tall, but that is just a speculation right now. I want to make the height good for viewing as well.
Any suggestions on height level? Given that me having to crawl in there is not an issue, but the one who will be enjoying it most is me.
The great news is that this evening I completed all 4 sections of my layout bench work. I have 2, 2'x66" pieces, and 1, 1'x3' piece along with 1 18"x3' piece. tomorrow I will create some legs.
So, I have 2 questions:
Thanks again for your help
The higher up you can build your layout, the better it will look while operating it - you get the feeling of being the engineer, especially when your loco is equipped with sound.
I am 6´5" and I have established a height of 60" for my planned layout, for which I will be using the old-fashioned cork roadbed over plywood method, as Styrofoam is too expensive where I live.
NorthCoast RRAny suggestions on height level?
For a single level layout run by a single person - a pretty good compromise is about mid-chest/elbow joint height for that person.
I.e. layout track level somewhere around the range of 42" - 52" off the floor for a layout to be operated by a 6 foot tall man.
High enough for not having to stoop too badly to get under the layout, high enough for a mostly side view angle into scenes (rather than the helicopter pilot view), low enough for good reach far into the layout.
Also remember that the bottom of your layout typically will be 3-4" lower than the track level, and that's the level your head will have to go under while ducking under things.
Smile, Stein
Thanks again for all of your help.
I think i will be going with 48" legs...THat should be high enough up off the ground, and I still have a bunch 8' pieces of 1"x4" laying around...so it makes some economic sense as well.
I was hoping to make the layout on the light weight side, and I though the insulation board we be a good option. Closest dealer is 90 miles away....not even sure on the price either...
Anyway...it is going to be tough to work knowing my future model is sitting on the floor of my mud room wiating for me to add on some legs!
At 60 inches you can go duck under with no problem
I would NOT go 48
I am 6 ft tall and have mine at 52 inches
I am 73 and use the duck under with no problems
Mine is 6 1/2 by 9 1/2 around the walls
My center is 43 inches but you could go 36 inches
51% share holder in the ME&O ( Wife owns the other 49% )
ME&O
Why is 48" too low? Is it because the layout won't look as good? Or is it because of the duck under aspect?
I have no physical limitations making the duck under in any way prohibitive. I am seriously concerned with how my layout will look.
I am basing my decision of layout height based soley on aesthetics.
I am 6 ft tall and my layout stands on 48 inch legs. I wish it was a few inches taller, only because I get too much of a "bird's eye view" of the layout, rather than a more horizontal view. You want it low enough to be able to reach to the back of your modules, but high enough to give you a more realistic view of things. If you want the wife or guests to have a good view, maybe that s/b a consideration as well.
You also mentioned you wanted to experiment with scenery. It would be easier to create below the track scenery if one of the modules was sitting on legs that were 6 inches shorter than the others. You could use risers on that module to keep the track level while having the ability to try some scenery below the track.
- Douglas
At 6' 5"
the layout will be too low for your eye level
Mine is at 52 and I am 6'
My wife is 5'3" and she loves the height for watching
If I was it doing it over I would have gone 56"
Find A high piece of furniture and put an engine on it and then use books etc to raise it to different heights
I bet you will like the higher numbers
My wife is 5'1", so, if I make it 50", she will have no problem taking pictures from a great vantage point!
I do want to 'experiment' with scenery types and methods, being this is my first layout, I think around mid chest level would be great, and I plan on raising all track above deck level so i can make it as realistic as possible. I am just having a hard time thinking 2 inches will play that much of a difference, given the money I will save on materials.
Later, if it is not high enough, I can add to the legs, or just construct new legs.
Thank you all for your opinions and advice. I look forward to implementaion. I Hope to post some photos of my bench work if not this evening, then tomorrow.
You can always use a small stool for the shorties watching your layout
Even with my layout at at 52 inches I find myself stooping a little to get a better viewing point
How much more will it cost putting extensions on your 48 legs
Ok, I understand what you are saying. I will try it out before I cut any more wood. I would like to have a comfortable level to work at too. I figured chest height would be good for that...It will be over 48", I will tell you what I decided on and post photos of my results. Thanks for your input.
NorthCoast RRI am just having a hard time thinking 2 inches will play that much of a difference, given the money I will save on materials.
I'm big on experimenting with these kind of theoretical ideas. Before you cut those 2x2s, just clamp the benchwork to them at 48", then 50", then 52", etc. and see what the difference is for yourself. Use some shoe boxes to stand in for structures - should give you a pretty good idea of what the viewing angles will be
Oh, I am going to experiment, totally. The house was built along time ago, and the room i am in is not really to code, so I am going to mount some scrap 1"x4" to the wall at varying heights. run my level off it to see how much the height changes from the wall to the middle of the room. Last night, after I completed the assemply of the sections, I played around with a few heights, using my tape only...it was getting a little late, so I didnt really get that into it. This afternoon, I will have a height and a bunch of legs.
I look forward to completing this part of the project, I will post my completed product for you to see and hopefully compliment.
NorthCoast RRThis is jumping ahead, but I live in a rural area, and I can not find a dealer less then 90 miles away who sell either pink or blue insulation material. Are there any alternatives?
Not sure exactly how you built your modules, but gray ceiling tiles might work as a substitute for the foam, assuming you can find them any easier.
There is an article in MRP 2010 where modeler Jim Six used this material exclusively for his roadbed and scenery element, I believe. His is a midwest theme, so the scenery was more rolling than maybe what you're planning, but stacking the tiles should provide similar results as foam.
Also, when stacked, the exposed sides of the tiles tend to look like rock cuts, moreso than foam does.
Thanks everyone for the help. My bench work is mostly complete. I was able to sit in the center, sip a beer and day dream for awhile. I could post photos, but I am not sure ot the protocol, or if there is any interest. If desired, I can post some photos.
I was ble to drill some holes for the wires that will come some day too. I will check out that ceiling tile as well. thanks again, and let me know if you would you would like to see photos.
Do we want to see pictures? YES !!!
We are always happy to participate in someone´s progress - after all, sharing is part of the fun!
Photos as requested. I made the legs 52". I thought that to be a comfortable working height for me. The back corner is going to be an issue at that height, but the bench work is strong enough to support me while i work in that corner. I am also able to easily get in and out from underneath. All in all, I am happy with the results. I do, however, think I will need to add about 6 more inches to the 1'x3' section that runs alont the rear of the layout, but the 9 square feet in the middle might be nice the larger phases of construction. I antcicapte track height to be between 52" and 56". I am going to check out the ceiling tile and its price after work today. Hopefully I can stack a few of those as my base, and then stack them for scenery effects and to raise my road bed so i can model down. I appreciate any and all feedback. Sorry for the lower quality cell phone pictures, I took higher quality photos, but I left the camera at home.
Thanks for the pics
Bench work looks good
Are you going to be able to access the windows ?
Can you swap the rear and front sections?
That way the duck under won't be as wide
The front, lower window is about 100 years old...painted shut. the other, higher up window, is brand new, and I can access that one to open or close. In the spring is the only time we really opened it though, my wife starts our garden in ther, or she did. But, that is a good question, it made me think about it...I will be painting and doing other things that have a vapor to them...opening the door that leads to the outside, and that side window will help ventilate.
I want to make the more narrow section 18"...just like the front section. I was going to to that, but I thought the 18" section on the front like that would give me a great spot for scenery. the duck under really isnt that bad at 52" high. I think that side will really be a focal point, so it is important to me that be wide.
Thanks for posting the pictures. A picture sometimes tells more than a thousand words can do...
I have noticed the absence of braces to support the legs - you may want to add them for extra strength and stability.
If you remember, I was saying I have a bunch of 48" lengths? I had to buy more fir, so I have a lot of 48" pieces, I plan on doing some additional supports. I would like to add a shelf as well under one side.
It isn't 100% completed yet. I have to finish drilling the holes for wiring, and adding supports. I didnt put any legs onth e 1' and 1.5' wide sections, I may put additional support, like some angle iron type of thing...like I said, it holds me up no problem.
Thanks for the feedback.
Great looking benchwork. You may want to add some alignment pins if you think you'll will ever expand your layout or move it. They make reassembly easier. Have a look at my train page I think I cover the aspect of modular railroading well. I too am planning a railroad in a 8' x 10' shed and it resembles your benchwork very closely.
Johnnny_reb Once a word is spoken it can not be unspoken!
My Train Page My Photobucket Page My YouTube Channel
The realignment pins are a good idea.
I checked your link and our bench work is very similar...except I used 2 1"x4" pieces for each leg, I made them into an "L". I thought about the 2"x2" legs, and really feel the way I did it gives more support and it makes it easier to mount things to as well, you have a nice 3.5" face to work with. When I put in my supports, or go to build shelves for storage, it will come in handy.