i was thinking of getting rid of most of the grades on the door and keeping only the branch grade, it appears that i can easily breach a seperation of 3" though i may want to steepen the grade just a bit (im thinking to 3.5%) that way i can keep the rest of the door part flat. my idea for the yard is to just have it branch from the main that way you dont have to go all the way around the siding to drop cars from the branch off. i think im going to build my own turnouts so thats a bit saved
train lover12 my idea for the yard is to just have it branch from the main that way you dont have to go all the way around the siding to drop cars from the branch off
Well, your layout, your call.
But I don't really understand why that would that be an improvement,
By having the yard tracks off the double ended siding instead of the main, you can do a little switching of the yard, using the rest of the double ended siding as a switching lead, while another train passes on the main.
By having a double ended siding at all, you can run around cars, or arrange a meeting of trains.
By having the branch line train needing to run a short bit on the main, you get to coordinate movement on the main - having mainline trains (or the branch line train) wait for the shared part of the main to be free before proceeding. Which translates to a little extra play value.
And the way Paul drew it, you use that hard to use outer corner of the layout (which is hard to use for anything else) in a sensible way, while getting fairly long straight yard tracks.
How do you plan to have your yard tracks off the main?
Are you thinking of having the yard tracks branch between the main and the aisle, or between the main and the backdrop?
Yard tracks branching off towards the left or towards the right?
What will you do with the double ended siding?
Smile, Stein
i vwould leave everything the same but instead of the turnout leading from the siding there would be a crossing between the turnout on the main and the yard. or maybe a single slip switch
Paulus Jas hi, The grade is almost 3%. The hidden curve at the bottom is 10", the 180 degree turns at the upper right are 11.25 and 12.5, as are the radii in the station labelled industrial zone; the remainder has 15"radii. Switches are Atlas #7. Paul
hi,
The grade is almost 3%. The hidden curve at the bottom is 10", the 180 degree turns at the upper right are 11.25 and 12.5, as are the radii in the station labelled industrial zone; the remainder has 15"radii. Switches are Atlas #7.
Paul
are you sure of those curve radii? ive been trying to make this plan in anyrail but i cant make it work. it seem that has to be that either the outside radius is larger than you said or the inner is smaller or a combination (i think this is most likely). if those are the real radii how did you get them to fit like that?
on another note, i think i have an idea about the staging, instead of using hard to access through staging, use a stub staging yard on either end of the rr. each yard would be removable and have three tracks. my ideas for placement are on the left along the wall pointing to the closet (maybe even entering it) and along the lower window.
that way i can easily access it and dont have to worry about derailments. so is this a good idea or bad?
Hi Teen without a name,
I drew my plan in RTS with Atlas snaptrack, without easements. If you look carefully to the plan all radii could be made an inch larger. And all stations can be made a bit longer as well. So when laying down the tracks you could use that space for easements. I used the standard Atlas 1.25 spacing.
Good idea; i would only build one cassette, And use the junction with the branch as a terminal. Trains have to change direction from time to time in the terminal and head back to the cassette. But you still have to occasionally clean tracks in the tunnel, so access remains needed. Can you pull your pike from the wall if needed?
i was going to put the layout on castors so i could roll it out of the way. i was also going to keep the door part seperate (just bolted to the rest) so i could swing it to the wall for more open space.
here is my version of your plan that i made:
it shows my idea for the yard, i like the form of your newest plan better though. here is a picture of the second stage:
i omitted the yard because of the 50 piece limit, but you can see the point. im off to ponder your new plan and mess around in anyrail some more. (just remembered, i forgot to add staging, oops)
train lover12i was going to put the layout on castors so i could roll it out of the way. i was also going to keep the door part seperate (just bolted to the rest) so i could swing it to the wall for more open space.
Should work. Don't need to be bolted, btw - a couple of clamps will work just fine.
here is my version of your (ie Paul's) plan: it shows my idea for the yard, i like the form of your newest plan better though.
here is my version of your (ie Paul's) plan:
it shows my idea for the yard, i like the form of your newest plan better though.
Looks okay. Don't forget to think about what industries you want on the upper side of the layout and check footprints, leave room for roads etc. You can find footprints of a lot of industries if you browse at walthers.com. You don't have to build them exactly as in the drawings, but it gives you an idea about what you realistically can fit into the scene.
Btw, and I know I am nitpicking here - but that extra crossover you want to add will cost you a few bucks extra (for the crossing/single slip/double slip), without really giving you much more in terms of functionality, and it would be a track element that would look more at home in busy city yard than in a rural RR junction. I would still advice dropping it. But it is your call, and tracks can be both added and removed later, if you change your mind.
train lover12 just remembered, i forgot to add staging, oops
Might be a good idea to consider a fairly simple form of staging - having just one narrow shelf with a few tracks along the left wall heading towards the cupboard on the upper wall.
If you are going with single ended staging anyways, nothing prevents you from just backing a train into (or out of) staging, if you want to go in the opposite direction around the loop.
train lover12
I think this version's industrial zone is too cramped. Especially the spur on the right, its too close to the branch line to have enough scenic separation, IMO. Paul's plan is a bit sleeker and more realistic looking in the industrial zone and uses the upper left corner better.
To solve some of the crowding, I think the backdrop can be shifted down towards the rural junction scene. It doesn't really take alot of space to realisticly scenic rural countryside. Alot can be accomplished by how effective the backdrop is. However, as Stein implied, an industrial zone needs space for buildings and roads as well as the track, so I would shift the backdrop from being off-center and biased towards the top to being more biased towards the bottom. Looks like about 8 inches down would work and maybe at more of an angle.
- Douglas
hi without a name,
this is what I had in my mind.
Have fun
i was trying to fit in tho gas plant that i wanted, but i just cant make it fit. i guess it will have to wait till section 2 is built. now that i see the scenery i like that version better. what is the switchback coming from the last yard track? is it an industry, engine servicing, or something else? im guessing that the other spur would be a team track?
here is another version that i made:
the large grey area is a coal dealer, the track at the top is a team track, and the track near the yard, i dont really know, i may omit it when i build the layout, any ideas for it? the oval track in the lower left corner will be in a tunnel, the mine branch will be on a mountainside. the track that goes to the left edge at the top is an interchange. any questions or suggestions? oh, the mine branch ends up about 2.75" above the lower track. is this high enough? and yes i did account for vertical easements. any problems i missed? thanks everyone for all the help.
hi mr Noname,
you forgot to draw in your scenic divider(?). But you were ahead of me. The industries I've drawn were placed for scenic reasons. Mostly to obscure tracks going through the divider. A rather tall industry at the upper right corner hides the tunnel entrance. So the other track, the one you want to remove, is the team. I also placed an industry before the tunnel entrance of the branch; and with help of trees, an other tunnel entrance is concealed too.
Second: the track-end against the upper wall has to be hidden, that's why I placed a view block(industry) between the aisle and the track.
After(?) I've drawn the main (and staging), I draw in rivers and roads. Both can be used as scenic dividers as well. Industries are placed were roads and tracks meet. At the very same time i am looking at possible scenes and their background. Always you will have to obscure the line where the end of your layout meets the backdrop. Buildings in front of it are coming to help. (Upper left corner)
The industry and the little forest are also separating the upper station from the two curves at the left, beside obscuring the branch-line tunnel. Creating more small scenes is making your layout seem larger.
Building your layout at almost eye level well help to achieve these effects. Hopefully I gave you some clues to having a new look at track/scenery plans.
okay, here is the newest version with the divider drawn in:
the 2 track industry is a coal yard/machine plant. the top track of that industry will be a coal trestle, the lower will be a loading/unloading dock on the main building. the building will be 2-3 stories tall and will take up most of the space between the spur and the divider. the track just to the right will be a small freight/passenger depot. the track on top will be an interchange. the spur on the corner will be another interchange or something of the sort. nothing has changed about the yard. the blue is a river, the mainline will cross it with 2 bridges, the bottom one will be a wooden trestle and the other will be a plate girdir bridge. the track above the yard will be a team track for the town. the inner turnback on the right will be going up a hillside on both sides of the divider. there will only be that one hill/mountain on the top side of the layout, the lower will have a mountain ridge all along the divider that the branch will ust to gain elevation. the dashed track will be in a tunnel in the mountain that the (current) end of the branch is on. the branch grade will continue to the very end of the branch. i plan to stop cars from rolling down by attaching an empty hopper to the very end and coupling all the cars to that. im not sure how to support the track above the main, i was thinking about a small flat piece of wood supported on one end by the foam and on the other by a wooden post glued to the foam i will cover the door with to make the river.
any problems with this design? i know i didnt leave too much room for town scenery on the top but i think i can make it work. there will be another town just above the yard. any more ideas?
oh, by the way, my name is Kyle
here is a better plan with staging and a full river:
the shorter interchange is now the staging lead. i also added some buildings to show the mining town. the river now goes all the way to the top layout edge (i forgot that the plan was bigger than my view area). the staging could be open or i was thinking i could put main street in front of it, that way i can have all my spurs and have town scenery too. same questions as before.
thanks for putting up with me,
Kyle
hi Kyle,
I can't follow you,
I see no staging, which track is the staging lead? I see some houses, but no mine, where is the mining town? And for the river and its slopes you have just 3 inches of width; must become a very narrow stream.
The dotted line was meant to be temporary, so I wouldn't build any thing there.
Are you going to use the closet as well for your layout?
BTW it would be nice to give names to the spots on your pike. Talking about the Woodsville teamtrack is easier then about the second lower spur at the top right corner. Where left and right are dependend of your POV too.
Paulus JasI see no staging, which track is the staging lead? I see some houses, but no mine, where is the mining town? And for the river and its slopes you have just 3 inches of width; must become a very narrow stream.
Wall on the west side of drawing, closet to the north, bed to the east, wall with big window to the south.
Kyle wants to put a few staging tracks on a shelf along the left wall, up towards his closet, with two tracks in the upper left of his drawing (straight and curved) both apparently leading to staging - in effect creating a wye up there.
I believe the mining town will be on the extension/phase 2, which will be to the lower left of the drawing. Mine can also be modeled as a temporary track on a shelf along the wall for the time being.
Smile,Stein
yeah, the mine will be on a removable cassette. that row of buildings was supposed to represent the main street of the town at the junction (from here on known as robertsdale). yeah, i guess the river is kinda narrow, any ideas for better placement, or should it be left out? the staging will be on the west wall north of the layout, is there a recommended number of tracks? i was going to have 6 and i think that is plenty but i could be wrong. so now im off to find a better spot for the river.
thanks,
kyle
here is a labelled version of the plan:
i couldnt find a way to keep the river.
I still had a different plan, with underground staging at a more reachable spot. But getting the grades right was tricky.
The lowest drawing was the starting point. I used all kind of ways to separate the nine scenes. Beside the double sided back-drop, a tunnel, roads, rivers, trees and buildings were used.
The area under Blackville, and if needed the space under the mine as well, can be used for staging. The number of switches will be between 25 and 30.
The tricky grades and the number of switches can be beyond your wishes. (also financially)
BTW I didn't change the names yet into yours. I like the Black Devil Brewery and Mine however.
you're right that plan may be a bit beyond me but it gives me an idea. by the way what is the minimum radius on that plan? other than the curve into the mine it seems to be a lot larger than 10". so anyways here's my idea: what if i used 2 hollow core doors? i would probably put them in an "L" shape (only the end of one door would touch the wall so no reach issues there). that way i could still have simple benchwork but also the long mainline i wanted. does this seem like it would work? ill try to make some possible track plans in a bit.
here is an idea for a two door layout:
the mine is on the bottom left of the layout. there would be two towns; you can see where one is, the other will be on the right of the lower door. there will be a river where the two doors join (forgot to mark it, 3 feet from the left side going vertical, just to the right of the crossing.) in the crossing the top right-to-bottom left track will be about 3" above the other one. does this plan seem workable? any major problems so far? oh, staging will be in the far left where the hidden track will be.
Hi Kyle,
Are you going for another orientation of your layout in your room?
I am not so sure if the combination of a hollow-core door with a multilevel plan is the best way to go. You need to have below track-level scenery, e.g. for the river. And a lot of grades are needed for the rest of your plan; not easy on a table top.
Maybe you should choose a flat-plan!?
I am not convinced about the way you have connected the mine with the rest of the layout, so I drew another version with grades as well. As you can see lots of parts are the same in both designs.And you can take the mine from plan 1 and swap it for the mine from plan 2 or visa versa.
the east wall (where the table now is) is on the bottom so the closet would be on the left. although maybe you are right ive been think about it and i now think that i should scale it back a little. so now im going to go with single level, though i may keep a few grades (i like the look of tracks crossing bover themselves), but no lower level staging. i think i will keep the plan on two doors, i like the long run it gives you. i will put staging on a cassette unless i see an easy to reach space where it would fit nicely. the scenery will be at least partially foam, most likely with a section of the layout using plastercloth. the doors will be covered in a layer of 1" foam to cut the river. though i am going single level i am okay with tracks going into mountains with more (exposed) tracks further up. thanks for the advice.
-kyle
train lover12 although maybe you are right ive been think about it and i now think that i should scale it back a little. so now im going to go with single level, though i may keep a few grades (i like the look of tracks crossing bover themselves), but no lower level staging. i think i will keep the plan on two doors, i like the long run it gives you. i will put staging on a cassette unless i see an easy to reach space where it would fit nicely. the scenery will be at least partially foam, most likely with a section of the layout using plastercloth. the doors will be covered in a layer of 1" foam to cut the river. though i am going single level i am okay with tracks going into mountains with more (exposed) tracks further up. thanks for the advice. -kyle
although maybe you are right ive been think about it and i now think that i should scale it back a little. so now im going to go with single level, though i may keep a few grades (i like the look of tracks crossing bover themselves), but no lower level staging. i think i will keep the plan on two doors, i like the long run it gives you. i will put staging on a cassette unless i see an easy to reach space where it would fit nicely. the scenery will be at least partially foam, most likely with a section of the layout using plastercloth. the doors will be covered in a layer of 1" foam to cut the river. though i am going single level i am okay with tracks going into mountains with more (exposed) tracks further up. thanks for the advice.
Kyle.
I think these are sensible comments and a good approach to this layout. Keeping the parameters that you have laid out above should help focus the eventual plan down to a few basic arrangements, so you won't have to spend time trying to come up with so many perfect plans. Personally, I would have your only grade being the track that leads to the tipple, no matter where you eventually place it.
you can't have just a few grades. On a small layout like yours getting one track over another (3 inches vertical spacing) will cost you 100 inch length; add space for vertical easements and we are talking about 10 feet. Ten feet up and ten feet down, so a big part of your main will be on a grade.
Easy to reach underground staging was the reason I used the space under Blackville. (see the second reduced plan; reduced in a sense to keep the number of switches down to 15)
Your mind is going back and forth but you will have to be clear in the end. Go flat and your doors are great; go for different levels and some kind of a frame would be a better option. You could read a book on this subject.
http://www.kalmbachstore.com/12241.html
Paulus Jas
That is a good looking plan.
Maybe put the mill siding on the aisle side of the industry instead of on the wall side, since reach will be hard back there, but that is a very minor issue that can be changed any which way you like while building the layout.
5" of vertical distance on the top right there between the track coming from the left under the central divider and the end of the runaround by the mine. Kyle could later expand with a couple of simple bookshelves (or just detachable cassettes) along the wall up towards the closet for single ended staging.
Easy to do a continuous run connection (or a couple of double ended staging tracks) under the mine scene.
Good job!
Grin, Stein, heading out to find a spade so I can dig out my snowblower enough to get it started without suffocating the engine :-)
i found after measuring my few peices of rolling stock and locos that the tallest one, even when sitting on bachmann EZ track, is only 1 5/8" tall so i think i can go with a 2.25" to 2.5" track spacing, which means a 3% grade is 83" long without vert. easements. so with its about 100" each way. that means that i could fit it. does anyone see any flaws in my reasoning? i was planning on using WS risers to form the grades and foam for the level parts of the track.
hi Kyle'
train lover12 is only 1 5/8" tall so i think i can go with a 2.25" to 2.5" track spacing, which means a 3% grade is 83" long without vert. easements.
In this plan there are two critical spots. The bridge and the spot I indicated. It all depends on the kind of bridge you envision; but for the other spot it depends on the kind of subroadbed you will use. WS inclines and foam are fun as long as there is no lower level track.
Problems like these can be solved, Studying a proper book will help you see the flaws (and benefits) of each bench-work system and how to overcome them. Knowing before you start building or even before you start dreaming is at stake.
my idea for crossing over hidden track is to cut the part over the track and put in a piece of 1/4" ply. here is a very bad picture of what i mean:
you can see i would notch the corners to get the ply to sit right. does this seem like a feasible solution?
i may end up going flat, im kinda torn.
thanks everyone,