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Layout Progress - York Central Railway

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  • Member since
    July 2009
  • From: Newmarket, ON Canada
  • 334 posts
Posted by Aralai on Monday, February 1, 2010 11:20 PM

Good points Bob. I'll take a closer look at options for a crossover. I plan to use both background industries to hide the hidden staging (although that is mostly at the bottom right) and some kind of removable mountain / hillside for the staging at the left and top left. 

There is also the ability to do a runaround with the loco in the hidden staging in order to run a freight forward into the yard, then do a runaround in the yard to reverse direction. It's probably not prototypical, but in real life the yard would be double ended.


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Posted by HHPATH56 on Monday, February 1, 2010 8:30 PM
Economically, ( in the real world), the tracks to a yard should be as short as possible. Having to back up all the way around the layout to back freight cars into a yard, seems a little unreal. If you moved the top spur and spur to the hidden staging to the right, the extended cross-over to the inner track would require a lesser grade. Make footprints on paper or cardboard of intended industries that the spurs are to serve. As drawn, the top spur, and mainline track below it, are too close together, to place an industry (with a loading dock), between them. Start the curve of the mainline directly after the cross-over , to gain space for an industry. Or do you intend to use modified backdrop industries in front of the spur to the hidden staging. Have you considered lift out Styrofoam mountains to hide your "hidden staging" ? Bob Hahn
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Posted by Doughless on Monday, February 1, 2010 7:49 PM

Aralai,

I don't want to be a spoil sport, but I don't think you will solve much of your first concern, the illusion of distance, by simply separating a double track mainline into two mainlines that are about 8 or 9 inches apart, like you have now.  You might achieve the illusion of distance by having one mainline, with as many (few) spurs as you need to model your prototype, and then simply running numerous laps around same the loop until the train reaches its destination.

The illusion of distance could be achieved by the TIME it takes the train to run the number of laps it needs to reach its destination.  Visually, you will have to use your imagination.  Effectively separating scenes on a small layout is tough to do unless you change the scenery theme from the wide open spaces you have now to something that has hills and tunnels and possibly hiding some mainline behind backdrops, IMO.

- Douglas

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  • From: Newmarket, ON Canada
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Posted by Aralai on Monday, February 1, 2010 6:27 PM

HHPATH56
One problem with your last layout proposal is that to get to, or get from the left yard, a train has to go all the way around to the lower right side. Why don't you make a cross-over extension from the top cross-over to the inner track, leading to the yard. This would allow a train traveling clockwise to back into the yard and then escape to either loop. Bob Hahn

 

I did not put elevations on, but the yard is lower, so a crossover extension there would be too steep an elevation. The other reason the layout is that way is that I planned that the trip to the yard would be long to create a greater sense of distance. I am hoping to use scenery to make the illusion better. Not sure I am explaining clearly, but the idea is that the main line, although curved around in almost a double circle is in prototype more of a straight line, so there could be no 'short-cut' to the yard.

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Posted by HHPATH56 on Monday, February 1, 2010 6:11 PM
One problem with your last layout proposal is that to get to, or get from the left yard, a train has to go all the way around to the lower right side. Why don't you make a cross-over extension from the top cross-over to the inner track, leading to the yard. This would allow a train traveling clockwise to back into the yard and then escape to either loop. Bob Hahn
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Posted by tgindy on Monday, February 1, 2010 5:59 PM

Aralai

2. The double tracks don't give me the long-run illusion I was looking for.

While a 2-track main won't necessarily look like a longer run, when designed in conjunction with crossover turnouts, it does provide possibilities for running two trains plus bidirectional operations.  For example, with a 2-track main beside a yard, one train consist can be continually run (on the outer main) while another train consist is switched in/out of the yard -- so, a minimum of a runaround (around) the yard can prevent yard/mainline congestion even if only a 1-track mainline is employed.

Conemaugh Road & Traction circa 1956

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  • From: Newmarket, ON Canada
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Posted by Aralai on Monday, February 1, 2010 3:55 PM

Update - my railway has been in state of suspension since before Christmas. My Dad got ill and passed away on Jan 6th and my wife got in a major car accident on Jan 12th, and is off work recovering slowly.

I spent some time reviewing the track plans, and am ready to re-do the layout. I tore up most of my track on the weekend and will be re-laying it according to the new layout.

For newbies - a lesson learned by me - my first mistake was to put my track too close to the walls to get the longest possible track, and also to run a double track all around. My lesson learned is to pull the track away from the wall at least far enough for background buildings and in some places more space. For hidden staging, being close to the wall is ok. Conversely, I want some space at the front of the layout in most cases too, so I guess my rule of thumb is to run tracks more towards the middle - or at least a few inches from the wall or front.

I have also added some space for a Town Square - I realize it make for a bit of a reach across the layout, but felt it needed the space for that element. I now have two areas for hidden staging and my mainline now runs basically two full circuits of the layout before repeating.

Over the next month or two, I will be carefully laying track and testing.

 

 

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Posted by Aralai on Monday, November 23, 2009 3:04 PM

 Thanks Paul - Yes, I think a row of industrial buildings would make a good block for hidden staging, and like the idea of the road crossing there.

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Posted by Paulus Jas on Monday, November 23, 2009 2:43 PM

hi Aralai,

my opinion only, the green line was meant to be a scenic devider in genaral. I do not fancy hidden tracks at all; so TMHO just of row of houses and/or industrial plants would be sufficient. Call it concieled staging, if you like.

As with all plans you have to tinker. The part I am not so happy with, is just at the right of the drop-in, where the green line starts. A roadcrossing on that spot and the industry as a view block would be my choice now. Depends also on the heigth of your pike and your length of course.

Have fun, keep smiling
Paul

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Posted by Aralai on Thursday, November 19, 2009 9:29 AM

Thanks Dave. I pulled out all my old plans, and the funny thing is the new plan is close to a plan I had, but ended up changing!  On that plan, the hidden staging DID go round the curve.

I was thinking that either a removable view block for the staging, or to be able to have access from above, but visibility from eye level would not show the tracks? Ex: Standing on a stool to pull out any derailments. 

Agreed that it is a good idea to stop and evaluate at this point. I'm glad I did, and appreciate the ideas. Making changes now will also allow me to widen the radius on a few curves I have that are a bit tight right now.

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Posted by odave on Thursday, November 19, 2009 8:46 AM

Aralai,

I think it was a good call to take a step back, and also a good call to eliminate the double track main.

I really like Paul's proposal.  One suggestion I have is to extend the buildings hiding the two staging tracks on the right all the way up to the turnout, such that a person on the inside never sees two tracks there - they only see a single track coming out from behind the buildings.  This gives you the ability to hide longer trains in staging, as well as represent your area better (which is single-tracked IIRC).  I suppose you could leave it as-is and say that that turnout is the end of a passing siding that extends off-layout, and any trains visible there are holding for meets, etc.  Your call.

Having said that, one thing to consider is access for those staging tracks, especially if you decide to hide more of them. IIRC they are not accessible from the bottom, as a furnace and hot water heater block that area.  I don't think it necessarily torpedoes the idea, you'll just need to be aware of the restrictions for having staging there and come up with a plan for maintenance and access - like a removable view block or something.

--O'Dave
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Posted by Aralai on Wednesday, November 18, 2009 6:02 PM

 Perfect Paul - Thanks!

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Posted by Paulus Jas on Wednesday, November 18, 2009 4:50 PM

Hi Aralai,

in the past a wagon, drawn by a team of horses, could bring their cargo to the railroad by pulling the wagon aside a waiting freight car. Today we would call it a (small) transloading facility and trucks are used.

Paul

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  • From: Newmarket, ON Canada
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Posted by Aralai on Wednesday, November 18, 2009 4:41 PM

I don't want to get stuck in that way - never satisfied with the layout, but on the other hand don't want to be unhappy with it but it is built. I'm sure you understand what I mean. It's real close to what I want now. I am such a visual person, I think I needed to build and run trains before I really knew what was good and what was bad. Now - hopefully my track is not too stuck down where I will need to lift it :)

Where you have the word 'team' on the plan - what is that supposed to be?

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Posted by Paulus Jas on Wednesday, November 18, 2009 4:37 PM

Hi aralai

In another thread I confessed I did never get really into scenery building, because I changed my layout to often. Only the blob at the right and the peninsula were done.

Paul

And yes, south of the green line is staging.

  • Member since
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Posted by Aralai on Wednesday, November 18, 2009 4:25 PM

 Thanks Paul - some great ideas! Bottom right - is that hidden staging location? This has potential for sure. I appreciate especially the addition of the industries and roads - it makes it easier for me to visualize. A bit frustrating to start to build then run into these kinds of issues, but better now than later. I need to make sure now I take my time to make sure the layout does what I need - it looks like it does. I definitely like it better than my plan with the kind of Y junction. I appreciate your work on this!!!! :)

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Posted by Paulus Jas on Wednesday, November 18, 2009 4:15 PM

Hi Aralai,

I've put some idea's on paper. 

Only the staging is on an other location, and I added a passing siding. The minimum radius is 22"and switches are #4 unless indicated differently on the plan.

Have fun and keep smiling

Paul

 

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  • From: Newmarket, ON Canada
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Layout Progress - York Central Railway
Posted by Aralai on Wednesday, November 18, 2009 12:50 PM

I'm sure some of you have been in this situation. I have started to build, and have discovered some issues with my layout that I don't like. The main issues are:

1. The train coming out of staging is going the wrong way to run my long run along the main line.

2. The double tracks don't give me the long-run illusion I was looking for.

3. The tracks are too close to the background, not letting me use for sidings to an industrial area - It becomes more of squeezing stuff in.

Here is my layout as it is now:

Here is a plan that I think addresses the issues:

 

The yard area is low and inclines up to the main tracks. Before I do anything else -ie: rip up tracks etc, I'd like some feedback on good/bad, etc. The good thing about the new layout is I think it gives a nice run from the bottom left around twice. I am thinking of putting some scenery to hide the far right track to add to the illusion. Any of those kinds of ideas would be helpful. For those who don't know - I am running a GO Train passenger commuter service with three stations, with an option to run a loop, and some freight switching to industries.

ETA: I forgot the runaround in the yard, it should still be there...

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