GraniteRailroader Your conductors are going to hate you if it's going to require extra moves to switch out the plant. There's no reason that the switch crew can't go in with the empties, swing the loads to the main, and shove the empties back in. In reality, that's probably how a crew would do it anyways. There's no reason to make the extra moves to the storage track back and forth. The switchback for the new customer is unnecessary as well. Either switch them off the siding, or get rid of that three way switch.
Your conductors are going to hate you if it's going to require extra moves to switch out the plant.
There's no reason that the switch crew can't go in with the empties, swing the loads to the main, and shove the empties back in. In reality, that's probably how a crew would do it anyways. There's no reason to make the extra moves to the storage track back and forth.
The switchback for the new customer is unnecessary as well.
Either switch them off the siding, or get rid of that three way switch.
That's why I like coming here...plain as day, but I never saw the answer like you did! How does this version look?
Don Z.
Research; it's not just for geeks.
TZ,
I didn't want to go to the expense of buying sectional track to do a dry run, so I made paper templates of track and placed them as in the drawing. I ran the switching scenario in my mind dozens of times and thought what I had drawn would work because the extra moves would slow down an operating session, but I don't want that part of the layout to be a pain so it becomes the orphaned stepchild.
I think the last drawing works much better.....but I could be wrong! Thanks for the help.
Don ZMike, Thanks for the input. After many hours of studying and arranging paper templates, I have come up with this setting as shown in the diagram. The cement plant has been moved back and will fit in the area shown after I shorten the conveyor leading up to the silos. I have created a passing siding for the branchline so trains will have an easier time working the different industries in the area. I know a train should be able to work a plant without fouling the main, but then again this is a branchline and the only traffic is going to and from the customers located along the branchline.A train of empty cement hoppers arriving from the yard can ease into the siding, cut off the power and then run back down the main to the cement plant lead. The power then pulls the loads from the loading track and then stages them in the storage track. Once the loading track is clear, the empties are pulled back and then pushed into the loading track. The power then couples onto the loads and departs back to the yard.
Mike,
Thanks for the input. After many hours of studying and arranging paper templates, I have come up with this setting as shown in the diagram. The cement plant has been moved back and will fit in the area shown after I shorten the conveyor leading up to the silos. I have created a passing siding for the branchline so trains will have an easier time working the different industries in the area. I know a train should be able to work a plant without fouling the main, but then again this is a branchline and the only traffic is going to and from the customers located along the branchline.
A train of empty cement hoppers arriving from the yard can ease into the siding, cut off the power and then run back down the main to the cement plant lead. The power then pulls the loads from the loading track and then stages them in the storage track. Once the loading track is clear, the empties are pulled back and then pushed into the loading track. The power then couples onto the loads and departs back to the yard.
So, you have dropped the idea that your branchline main will have an incline from the midpoint along the wall up towards to the left ?
If your branchline main has an incline, your passing siding also will have an incline (since a passing siding is connected to the branchline main at both ends, and thus need to be at the same elevation as the branchline main at both ends), and you will have trouble leaving cars in that siding.
From a later post by Don:
Don Z
You should should show where the passing (ie double ended) siding connect to the branchline main at the left end of the siding. The length of that double ended siding is a relevant design parameter when picturing how you will do your switching of that new industry at the bottom right. It might be smart to move the branchoff point for the industry spur left or right, depending on how long that double ended siding will be, and how long cuts of cars you plan to shove into or pull from the industry spur.
Smile, Stein
steinjr So, you have dropped the idea that your branchline main will have an incline from the midpoint along the wall up towards to the left ? If your branchline main has an incline, your passing siding also will have an incline (since a passing siding is connected to the branchline main at both ends, and thus need to be at the same elevation as the branchline main at both ends), and you will have trouble leaving cars in that siding.
Can't slip anything past you, can we Stein? The branchline main still has a grade....and the siding is flat for about 90% of its length, then it also rises on a 2% grade to meet the main at the far left end of the drawing......remind me to never bluff in a poker game against you!
Don Zsteinjr So, you have dropped the idea that your branchline main will have an incline from the midpoint along the wall up towards to the left ? If your branchline main has an incline, your passing siding also will have an incline (since a passing siding is connected to the branchline main at both ends, and thus need to be at the same elevation as the branchline main at both ends), and you will have trouble leaving cars in that siding. Can't slip anything past you, can we Stein? The branchline main still has a grade....and the siding is flat for about 90% of its length, then it also rises on a 2% grade to meet the main at the far left end of the drawing......remind me to never bluff in a poker game against you!
Sorry - I was not trying to "call a bluff" or any such thing, just to point out a possible operating problem. If the math of those inclines work for you, then by all means go for it.
Merry Christmas!
Smile, Stein, who is a pretty lousy poker player - not good at bluffing at all
Why don't you install a double-slip switch, which will give you both options and a lot more? Bob hahn
HHPATH56 Why don't you install a double-slip switch, which will give you both options and a lot more? Bob hahn
Bob,
I don't understand....where are you suggesting the double-slip be installed? Most prototypes would probably avoid a double-slip unless it was the only workable solution. I don't see how a double-slip would help the situation.
Thanks,
steinjr Kinda hard to read the text on the tracks. How about something like this ? Would take relocating the loading shed to the other side of the silos - but that's not hard to do. Smile,Stein `
Kinda hard to read the text on the tracks.
How about something like this ? Would take relocating the loading shed to the other side of the silos - but that's not hard to do.
`
I llike the one on the top of the page. I am also doing a cement plant, and have been looking at the ideas on this topic. I thought about doing a siding into the cement plant, and maybe one off to the side for extra switching. I don't think I will have enough room on the layout for most of the ideas alreayd posted. I have about 2ft to work with.
"Rust, whats not to love?"
Robby,
If you mean your benchwork is 2' deep, you should have plenty of room to work with. My benchwork in the area drawn is only 28" deep. I will have to modify the conveyor to fit the set of structures in place, but that shouldn't be a problem. If you use all of the buildings as designed, the whole plant stretches out about 4' in length (left to right).
Good luck!
bladeslingersteinjr Kinda hard to read the text on the tracks. How about something like this ? Would take relocating the loading shed to the other side of the silos - but that's not hard to do. I like your overall idea here, but working for a real railroad gives me a simpler insight. the delivering train would probably hold the empties, and proceed to the far end switch, reach in and grab the loads, then set them out on the mainline. then shove the empties back to a spot on the pit, cutoff and then come out on the opposite end switch to grab the loads and return to where it originated from...assuming that this was the last stop on the line, otherwise, they'd probably go back out the original switch, couple up and take the loads with them to the next destination in that direction. and if you were holding some additional cars on the head end for the "next" destination, this would work perfectly with that idea too.
steinjr Kinda hard to read the text on the tracks. How about something like this ? Would take relocating the loading shed to the other side of the silos - but that's not hard to do.
I like your overall idea here, but working for a real railroad gives me a simpler insight. the delivering train would probably hold the empties, and proceed to the far end switch, reach in and grab the loads, then set them out on the mainline. then shove the empties back to a spot on the pit, cutoff and then come out on the opposite end switch to grab the loads and return to where it originated from...assuming that this was the last stop on the line, otherwise, they'd probably go back out the original switch, couple up and take the loads with them to the next destination in that direction. and if you were holding some additional cars on the head end for the "next" destination, this would work perfectly with that idea too.
Good (and important) point. On a real railroad you probably could safely assume that the main line will continue left for at least 16 car lengths + an engine length (6-700 feet in real life, about 7 1/2 feet in H0 scale, assuming 40 foot cars) past the leftmost switch on the double ended siding, and that an engine could haul 16 cars (8 empties, 8 loads) towards the left without trouble. That is not necessarily a given on a model railroad where the owner has not specified how the line looks further to the left and further to the right from this one scene.
You could do it as straight trailing moves exactly like you describe. You don't even strictly need the a double ended siding with the four switches shown (unless you intend to run around a cut of cars that will fit between the switches on the main before the return trip trip towards the right and need a switcher engine pocket on the leftmost end of the double ended siding).
For a real railroad, you could have a much simpler setup with just one single trailing switch on the branch line and a single spur going rightwards from the switch on the branch line through the loader by the silos, and do a straight trailing switch move like you described above. At the end of your switching on this branch line (whether there be further industries to be switched to the left or not), you could just back up all the way to the right on the branch line when going back with the loads. With or without a shoving platform or a second engine at the right end of the train.
But I think the most elegant and flexible model railroad setup that maximizes switching potential with minimum requirements for extra space to the left of the scene is the one Dave H described - putting two crossovers tail to tail between the main and the siding slightly to the left of the loading shed.
Where an arriving train with empties just has to pull forward (leftwards) on the branch line far enough past the leftmost crossover , then shove empties back (rightwards) onto the loading track and then pull forward back on the branch line again. Then you either continue left on the branch line to switch more industries or move right past the rightmost crossover, back into the siding with loads, pick them up and depart rightwards with loads.
You can have a small industry switcher (like a trackmobile) or a car puller (imaginary or implemented as a small hidden motor on a timing circuit pulling on a string that pulls the cars being loaded leftwards under the loader) as a cool effect. More complex track work with either two crossovers after each other or a double crossover - which probably would not be all that popular with a real railroad, compared with the single switch and single straight spur in the example above, but saves linear space, which is what you usually run short of on a model railroad.
Btw - the Dave H solution also is good for allowing two long(ish) level spurs for the loading track and the loaded cars track, while only demanding that a relatively short part of the mainline (or branch line in this case) to be straight and level (the length with the two crossovers). You can have the mainline climb/drop on both sides of the crossovers - no requirement that the mainline needs to be level for cars left not to roll away. And it is dead easy to just mirror this track configuration over on the wall side of the main - where the spurs can run all the way into the corners. As a layout design trick, this is a neat one that gets quite a few birds with one stone.
Following the prototype's practice is a great idea in principle. But on a model railroad, you don't always have enough linear length to do things strictly prototypical.
In this case - who knows ? Don hasn't really described in much detail how things look left and right of this scene on his layout.
steinjr In this case - who knows ? Don hasn't really described in much detail how things look left and right of this scene on his layout.
Okay, as stated previously, the branch dead ends into an industry across an interlocking and also dead ends in the gravel plant down the tracks to the left of the cement plant location. Here is an attempt to show the area under discussion. The tracks in bold are the branchline in question:
Don Zsteinjr In this case - who knows ? Don hasn't really described in much detail how things look left and right of this scene on his layout. Okay, as stated previously, the branch dead ends into an industry across an interlocking and also dead ends in the gravel plant down the tracks to the left of the cement plant location. Here is an attempt to show the area under discussion. The tracks in bold are the branchline in question:
Looks like a nice, big, interesting layout that it would be fun to run trains on! Not too crowded and with biggish industries.
Thanks for showing us this image - I'd love to see your whole layout plan some day!