Hi All
I have a rather simple question and I guess its answer will be one more of personal preference but here it goes. Do you prefer to build up blue foam scenery in stacks of singe large layer sheet, or in smaller individual easier to handle peices stacked in more of a jumble?
Heres my situation, as the pic shows, I am building up a small portable "pizza" layout, 36" square, that will have a large hill with a tunnel thru it, now logic says I should cut the foam in single sheet layers and simply stack them up, but after trying to cut the first two layers I have found a rub, namely thats its almost impossible to cut the stuff accurately no matter how big your knife is, to fit snugly against prefixed items like the 2 tunnel portals that will make up the "bookends" of the hill. now add in that I want a roadway to be cut into the foam from the bottom to the top and buildings will also be set into the hill. All this seams to make the logical way of stacking, then carving out, a very burdonsome task.
So instead I'm now considering a different tack, cutting the foam into smaller easier to handle peices and then assembling those peices together, stacking up as I go up. I think it will be easier to control the outcome than by trying to "carve it out" later.
So, what technics have other modelers here used in similar conditions? Any other options? I'm curious to hear what solutions others have come up with. Thanks.
PS I'm trying to make a large scale version of this:
Have fun with your trains
Oh, boy... If I'm reading you right, what I do is start with the lowest piece and get it to fit exactly. Then I take that piece and trace it onto the sheet to cut the next piece. The next piece should be the same size (or maybe even a bit bigger). Now, you can trim it down a little. I do this again and again, until I get a slightly tapered stack. Then I glue them all together (hot glue or Liquif Nails). Then I shape it with the hot wire cutter. Always easier to make the mountain smaller than bigger.
Modeling the Rio Grande Southern First District circa 1938-1946 in HOn3.
Do a search for a "hot wire" or "hot foam" tool system. It should give you the idea of how to work foam using the system. Other wise stacking will work just fine. A razor knife works best when carving foam (blue board). Its VERY sharp and cuts the foam like a hot knife through butter. ( AND YOU IF CARE IS NOT TAKEN )
I'm using foam board as a base for my layout because I do not like the mess of plaster but with such a small layout it maybe easier for you to build the mountain out of plaster formed over aluminum window screening.
Johnnny_reb Once a word is spoken it can not be unspoken!
My Train Page My Photobucket Page My YouTube Channel
Vic, first visualize and have a firm picture of the finished product. Diagrams with very close scale measurements would help you.
Secondly, do stack, but do also the initial shaping before you caulk them togehter, including cutting and rough slopes or edges at an angle to speed up the shaping. Tilt your blade at a 45 deg angle and slice that way if you can.
Then, add the odd blocking of foam for supports here and there...I have done that. Tunnel portals glue nicely to a blocked structure or brace behind them.
Lastly, use a combination of wire brush (intially), and then a sanding block to do the finer shaping and surface refining.
Don't be averse to adding some plaster of paris or spackle in gaps between layers that are hard to conceal.
-Crandell
Thanks guys, I tried to get a hot wire knife, but the biggest I could locally find was only about an inch wide at the local Micheals and it looked pretty useless, grrrr! I'm currently using a large Olfa type construction knife which works pretty well (if I can keep it straight) on my foam which is 2" thick. One of these bad boys:
After reading these replies I think I might have to consider a hybrid approach, namely stack a solid base of foam, but then using more individual peices cut to shape on the outcroppings on the hill. I do not want a smooth surface other then the roadway and building bases but am looking for a more jumbled rock formation elsewhere, so I'm thinking that if I have a rough base of stacked foam undernieth, I can then shape some of the outcropping from smaller pieces, and then attach them to the base stack, this way I can get a solid foam support structure but then use the foam natural rock like shaping abilities to maximum advantage. I'm very hestiant to use any plaster as I need to be able to carry this easily, so maybe non-expaning insulation foam might be a better choice for gap filler.
This is the effect I'm looking for:
And unlike the HOn30 micro, I'm only considering 2 or 3 structures, a whistle stop station and a couple buildings up top of the hill with a dirt road to them.
Sound like a plan?
This is what a serrated steak knife will do. First pic is 1/2 done. Second pic is after one coat of ground goop.
I use a hacksaw blade to cut blue foam, the blade is removed from the saw frame and just used by itself. Works very well.
When making mountains, I get a very rough shape with pieces of blue foam, secured with liquid nails, and then add crumpled newspaper to form the desired shape. This is then covered with plaster cloth from Woodland Scenics.
Hope this helps,
From you "neighbor up north" Wayne
Modeling HO Freelance Logging Railroad.
Hi Wayne
Time has been tight but, I've been cutting and stacking my hill and getting near the top, roughing out the road and some flat pads for future buildings. So far the biggest thing is that I have some gaps that I will have to fill with something, probably a latex foam spray that I have used on construction projects, its not a messy as the yellow spray foam, that stuff is nasty. This stuff cleans up with water to boot but is water resistant when cured and a heck of a lot easier to cut than the nasty yellow stuff.
This has to be easily movable by hand, so I'm not going to use any plaster coatings, too heavy otherwise, when I get to the indoor layout I will likely use a technic like yours, that doesnt have to be mobile. I'm hoping to have this done to at least a basic level by June for the Big Train Show here. The more finished I can make it the better.
http://www.bigtrainshow.com/
ARTHILL, those mountains are terrific!
I'll take some pics tonight to show progress.
I have reactivated my building log for this project, heres a link to show progress pictures so far.
http://cs.trains.com/forums/1421781/ShowPost.aspx#1421781
One evenings carving, not bad, starting to look like southwestern sandstone
Still need to sand some of the rough spots down and carve the back side a bit but this was very very fast!
I use the stack and stuff method. I'll use the blue foam to build up the general profile, then fill the cavities with scrap and newspaper, then cover it all with Sculptamold.
followed by paint and puff ball trees...
Lee
Route of the Alpha Jets www.wmrywesternlines.net
I watched this series of vids on Youtube, it was very helpfull.
http://youtube.com/watch?v=D1D4KBB_GC4&feature=related
Looks like things are progressing nicely.
BTW, could you post more info about the loco and structures in your first photo? They look interesting. Thanks.
- Harry
HarryHotspur wrote: Looks like things are progressing nicely.BTW, could you post more info about the loco and structures in your first photo? They look interesting. Thanks.
Thats all that remains of my once mighty (HA!) HOn30 empire. It started as a 18" x 24" micro I built living in an apartment, it got KO'd by the Northridge earthquake knocking it off a shelf, I later retried HOn30 on a 2'x4' but got so frustrated with the crappy drivetrians in N I gave up, and boxed almost everything, I did this layout when I discovered Carl Arendts microlayouts website a couple years later, its 9" x 12" on a built up wood base, using the shortened Woodland Scenery buildings you see, the train is a Bachmann Docksider rescaled with new cab, a modified gondola box on a N bobber chassis, and a kitbashed caboose also on a bobber chassis. I really need to finish it, I put this together right about the same time I got into large scale big time and havent looked back at HO since, I recently began collecting HOn30 but only on a small scale, old AHM minitrain stuff.
user=bob@osdVSMITH, is that a drywall keyhole saw in the picture of your sandstone-to-be? I think it may be the best tool of all for working foam. Bob T
VSMITH, is that a drywall keyhole saw in the picture of your sandstone-to-be? I think it may be the best tool of all for working foam. Bob T
Yep, between this, a small surform rasp and a shaped sanding block, I found to be the most usefull tools, that and a good vacuum cleaner
Progress: Painted, plain flat latex, the buildings on top are just there for ideas, I'm still deciding what I want to do there. The Piko buildings may be OK but the HofB hotel looms a little large, I really want to build a series of very narrow buildngs winding there way up the hill, so these would only be temporary anyway. Even the station would eventually be replaced. But I only have a little over one month to get this ready.
Small test area for scenery, Woodland Scenics stuff, guess it works for large scale, no ballast yet, gotta get some stuff without the blue "ore" in it.
Last photo came out too bright, it doesnt look this washed out in person
ARTHILL wrote: This is what a serrated steak knife will do. First pic is 1/2 done. Second pic is after one coat of ground goop.
ground goop is a phrase I read in a book by Lou Sassi. There was a nice formula for it. People say it works well. I use my own formula:
Premixed lightweight drywall seam compound. I get mine in a bucket at Menards. I keeps in a sealed container for months.
latex paint to get proper color. I use black for Minnesota farmland and light tan for Arizona
Saw dust. I use everything but from the plainer.
drop of Lysal for mold control in the sawdust.
Water for consistancy. For some mounding and gap filling I use no water.
I paint it on with an old paint brush
I add ground foam while it is still wet. It takes about a day to dry and can be cleaned up in the sink. DO NOT clean plaster in a sink. ( Plaster cures and gets warm. Drywall mud dries and get cool to the touch)
I used it because I had the sawdust and I liked the slow drying time and cleanup. I also liked that I could make up a batch and have it on hand. With plaster to have to mix it when you need it.
Interesting stuff, might try that on the indoor when I start scenery on it.
A tad more progress
I added highlight colors to the bluffs on the layout above. Going to go with 3 facades at the top with the watertank as shown, and the "house of relief" next to the water tank (eeewww!)
Got a bag of standard indoor large scale "Ballast", in the pet aisle of the local Theftway.... dam stuff has pink "scent control crystals" in it, another had blue ones, geez well at least pink looks more southwesterny than blue, but the white kitty litter looks like hell on the layout
So spent the evening "staining" my kitty litter, dark brown paint mixed with water in a small container dipping the kitty sand in a strainer into it, looks alot better now got to wait and see if it dries out by tomorrow evening, nice warm day tomorrow, otherwise its going to get baked a little in the stove to dry it out.
Well a hard push this weekend squeezing time in between yardwork and chores, yields results, I give you
Tincan JunctionOverall view
Station looking up the hill
Looking up the hill from the crossing
View of Brien's Pinnacle
Tincan itself, a one horse town and they had to borrow the horse.
Still lots of little detail stuff to add, I thought this would take another month to do but it went surprisingly fast, BTW this is a full dress rehersal for my bigger indoor layout.
I Have tried both of those methods and I think the best is a combination of the two.
I have an idea of what I hope to accomplish in my head and usually cut a full size base piece that I begin with (no larger than 4X4). I then cut other pieces of styrofoam into narrow strips 3-4" wide and about 8-18" long. I use liquid nails (for projects works well) and begin to build up the terrain in sandwich style and when they reach the height equal to the proposed size I cap them off. This style uses far less of the mateiral and is easy to shape with a shaping tool. give it a try. Ace - choo-choo
Sort of...
Took the finished layout to the Big Train Show, a local train show for large scalers.
It was a big hit, gots tons of questions and inquiries. The pizza layout in our group booth:
and a friend took a video, came out a tad dark but ya get the idea.
http://youtube.com/watch?v=yxrimi_8bNo&feature=user
Overall it was very worth the effort. According to one of our group, people would go by the house sized Del Oro layout and say, "I can't do that" walk by the garage sized Sundance Central and say "I can't do that, then they'd walk by our booth and say, Hey, I can do that!"
Next will be adding some custom built buildings with full interiors on the roadway up and a mine complex at the top, which was the masterplan all along...and as I found that even at 3x3 it's still a bit of a PITA to move, I'm thinking of really pushing the envelope...so to speak, with an even more portable G scale layout, say... 24" x 24" ????
Best Regards, Big John
Kiva Valley Railway- Freelanced road in central Arizona. Visit the link to see my MR forum thread on The Building of the Whitton Branch on the Kiva Valley Railway
That is really nice work, vsmith. What scale is it?
Also, could you post some pictures of the unfinished layout we can partly see in the background of one of your photos? It looks interesting.
Time to resurrect this thread, going to rework this puppy and may have some questions, as I'm going to add a second track to this monsterously oversized layout
How the devil you ask? ...stay tuned