Stein,
Why do you want to make life so difficult?
Mark
Stein et al
Having been through the "design a layout for me" battles on another forum, I'll say just one point on that subject. The folks who you most want to follow your suggestions and rules are the ones least likely to do it. The only method that seems to work is have a few sticky threads, such as the Givens and Druthers questions, and gently point the "design my layout for me" poster to that and a couple of references such as Chip's web page, and perhaps the Heart of Georgia or 10 Commandments of Yard Design. Then do nothing else until the original poster comes back with something based on his reading.
The above process probably won't work on this forum where there are too many would-be advisors who can't resist posting to a possible "noob".
Stein, you are correct. The discussions of contest criteria keep bogging down as each seeks to push criteria that favor his particular design philosophy or interests. And I'm guilty of that. Personally, I prefer the contest be as open as practical. Why haven't I entered in the past? I've started all 3 contests. But my mastery of XtrkCad just isn't. Translating my ideas through XtrkCad takes a lot of time (for me) that I need for other activities.
And I also agree with others that the "voting" should be just as easy as we can make it. The voting and the design efforts are the heart of the contest, and both parts need to be encouraged to have as wide a participation as can be obtained. To me, the comments are the priceless jewels that I am seeking by posting my design in the contest. In reality, votes are a quick substitute for comments for the readers. Though I would rather have comments, the voting is far better than no response at all. At least I know some eyes have actually looked at my design, and thought about it a little. And the number of eyes viewing will be more in the contest format than if I post in a separate thread to compete with everybody else for eyeballs.
I do like the 32 square foot contest idea. I think keeping it open with regards to scale is reasonable. I do believe that the assumption that because an N design can put more in the same space, it will do better, is erroneous. I give our "voters" more credit than that.
As to whether the event should be a contest or challenge, to me it's semantic games. As I said earlier, more design review input is gained by allowing votes than by requiring comments. The cost is that the quality of the comment inherent in a vote is much less than a thoughtful comment. For this reason only, I favor the contest format.
my thoughts, your choices
Fred W
wm3798 wrote: I prefer "challenge" or even "exercise". The goal is not to prove one design as being intrinsically better than another, but to help each other develop our own design that is workable in our own defined spaces, the only caveats being the available square footage, orientation to a corner of a room, and my suggested theme of an urban setting.
I prefer "challenge" or even "exercise". The goal is not to prove one design as being intrinsically better than another, but to help each other develop our own design that is workable in our own defined spaces, the only caveats being the available square footage, orientation to a corner of a room, and my suggested theme of an urban setting.
Excellent point!
wm3798 wrote:Rather than a complicated judging process, why not just make the designs available for comment and critique, asking the designer first state what he likes about it, why he did what he did, and talk a little about the operations he plans. We can then comment on the designs we feel like commenting about, offer praise, suggestions for improvement, and question things we find questionable.
Rather than a complicated judging process, why not just make the designs available for comment and critique, asking the designer first state what he likes about it, why he did what he did, and talk a little about the operations he plans. We can then comment on the designs we feel like commenting about, offer praise, suggestions for improvement, and question things we find questionable.
Agreed, something is needed to encourage more interaction.
The Old Dog would also suggest that we use the term "rate" instead of "vote" to reduce the contest aspect.
Have fun
fwright wrote: The folks who you most want to follow your suggestions and rules are the ones least likely to do it. The only method that seems to work is have a few sticky threads, such as the Givens and Druthers questions, and gently point the "design my layout for me" poster to that and a couple of references such as Chip's web page, and perhaps the Heart of Georgia or 10 Commandments of Yard Design. Then do nothing else until the original poster comes back with something based on his reading.The above process probably won't work on this forum where there are too many would-be advisors who can't resist posting to a possible "noob".
The folks who you most want to follow your suggestions and rules are the ones least likely to do it. The only method that seems to work is have a few sticky threads, such as the Givens and Druthers questions, and gently point the "design my layout for me" poster to that and a couple of references such as Chip's web page, and perhaps the Heart of Georgia or 10 Commandments of Yard Design. Then do nothing else until the original poster comes back with something based on his reading.
You are right, Fred. That would be a major obstacle to the RTFM approach, of course. Thanks for pointing it out - can't believe I failed to observe that on my own. Must be getting old
fwright wrote: To me, the comments are the priceless jewels that I am seeking by posting my design in the contest. In reality, votes are a quick substitute for comments for the readers. Though I would rather have comments, the voting is far better than no response at all. At least I know some eyes have actually looked at my design, and thought about it a little. And the number of eyes viewing will be more in the contest format than if I post in a separate thread to compete with everybody else for eyeballs.<snip> For this reason only, I favor the contest format.
To me, the comments are the priceless jewels that I am seeking by posting my design in the contest. In reality, votes are a quick substitute for comments for the readers. Though I would rather have comments, the voting is far better than no response at all.
At least I know some eyes have actually looked at my design, and thought about it a little. And the number of eyes viewing will be more in the contest format than if I post in a separate thread to compete with everybody else for eyeballs.
<snip>
For this reason only, I favor the contest format.
Good point. I agree 100% with you. Comments is what you want. Not just votes. But a thread with less volume will disappear quicker. Catch-22.
Oh well - you do what you can, I guess. Good enough now beats perfect never.
fwright wrote: I do like the 32 square foot contest idea. I think keeping it open with regards to scale is reasonable. I do believe that the assumption that because an N design can put more in the same space, it will do better, is erroneous. I give our "voters" more credit than that.
I can live with that.
Grin, Stein
It sounds like consensus is beginning to gel. Chip, boil it down, and let's get started. (And you're right... 3 out of 4 ain't bad! Thanks for pointing that out)
Lee
Route of the Alpha Jets www.wmrywesternlines.net
fwright wrote:The folks who you most want to follow your suggestions and rules are the ones least likely to do it.
SpaceMouse wrote:Because, unlike you, most people have strong opinions about how it should be done.
1train1 wrote: IMHO ; Contests and challenges are a waste of bandwith - 'someone else's' bandwith. Aren't these forums supposed to be the sharing of info et al ? Not to be cranky about it but isn't that why most forums discourage the - 'what color is your favourite ....?' polls that were trendy for a while.
IMHO ; Contests and challenges are a waste of bandwith - 'someone else's' bandwith. Aren't these forums supposed to be the sharing of info et al ? Not to be cranky about it but isn't that why most forums discourage the - 'what color is your favourite ....?' polls that were trendy for a while.
Just a thought.
If you think they're a waste of bandwidth, space, time, whatever, neat thing about forums.
They have a subject, if the subject has the word 'contest', you ignore it and move on.Pretty cool, eh?
For the rest of us that like these, we can read them, and enjoy what happens.
tomikawaTT wrote:I rather suspect there's a vast difference in the experience levels of the entrants in your contests. There certainly is a vast difference in their approaches to the concepts laid down. I'm something of a curmudgeon, so I probably won't enter a contest unless the "givens and druthers" exactly parallel something I'm going to do - or have done. That doesn't stop me from participating as a voting spectator. (It isn't my fault that Mark Newton's entries are so obviously his, even with no name given.
exPalaceDog wrote: ...Agreed, something is needed to encourage more interaction. The Old Dog would also suggest that we use the term "rate" instead of "vote" to reduce the contest aspect.Have fun.
...Agreed, something is needed to encourage more interaction.
Have fun.
I think that no matter what you might wish to call it, rating or voting, it is still inviting judgement. For many, having fun is the antithesis of submitting to judgement. Their lives are filled with it, thanks very much, and they don't want to face it during their learning to appreciate the hobby. So, challenge, contest, vote, rate, compare, contrast....it all boils down to the same thing in the end....who gets bragging rights.
My