Brass Custom Painting Options

[Loco]

I was wondering if you all have any thoughts on who might do custom painting of brass?  I’m just learning how to use my equipment (air brushing and such) and don’t think I’m mentally, physically, or spiritually ready to breakdown and paint a brass loco!  I’ve done some painting in the past and I’m confident I’ll one day not think twice. But for now, would welcome some options.

As always, thanks in advance

[dante]

Check the ads and/or better yet, if you can get to a train show, you might find a vendor who does that kind of work (and you can check the quality).  I found such a person from Batavia, NY, at a train show in Syracuse, NY.

[Loco]

Well, I don't have any brass engines as yet.  I'm considering purchasing one.  I model UP in HO and will be running DCC.  So this puts me in a bit of a bind as most all brass is DC and many of the locos are unpainted. Was just wondering if there was someone out there who does this.  Much in the same way one can send a loco in to have it wired up for DCC.

By the number of responses it would seem these guys are rare (or ladies as the case may be )

I did happen to talk with one local shop and they want some $500 - or there abouts, depending on decals and such.  I really didn't need to hear more.  Sheesh, I can re-paint one of my bikes for that!  Maybe I'll tune up my learning curve with this small scale stuff.

One thing I was wondering, would it be nessesary to bake on the coats with brass?  I've done this with tanks and fenders and such on bikes.  I guess it's time to hit the local metal suppy company, get some scrap brass and see what takes.

[Loco]

Thanks David. All very good points.  Seems the Harley and Brass crowd have about the same things in mind when it comes to paint. 

I've always had the philosophy "I ride my bikes" and it's going to be the same with my trains.  Build 'em, paint 'em, and run them. 

Again, thanks for the good comments.  Looks like I'm a bit on my own with this one.... 

[Jake1210]

I dont even get the point of brass engines. I think they are over priced (I know it is because they are [obviously] made of brass which is a decorative and expensive metal) & ugly. This is just my opinion. If you want to get a brass engine, by all means go ahead.

[dante]

I dont even get the point of brass engines. I think they are over priced (I know it is because they are [obviously] made of brass which is a decorative and expensive metal) & ugly. This is just my opinion. If you want to get a brass engine, by all means go ahead.

Whether or not they are overpriced depends on the beholder (and I rather believe the major cost is in the labor, not the material).  They are generally considered collectors' items and can return a profit on the investment if you are considering the economic factor.  Many would also consider them beautiful - painted or not - rather than ugly.  A quality brass model comprises spectacular detailing and faithful representation of the prototype.

Personally, the reason I have purchased a few brass models is because they are models of prototypes important to me that were unavailable in any other manner [other than scratch-built by me (not in a million lifetimes!)].    

[Hudson]

Hmmmm.............

 If a high degree of prototypical fidelity is ugly then, well, great!

 Ugly for me. 

[Loco]

The one major reason for the possible purchase of brass was the two Loco's have not been built in any other medium that I know of.

However, over the last few days, I'm finding that with the need for DCC, sound, and in one case paint, it's really looking like more of a hassle than it's worth..... I may just have to wait until Overland makes them again and puts installs DCC at the factory......

[PRRT1MAN]

Well from looking at this thread I guess I underprice my painting! I have done some brass painting for myself and others. But my price is not nearly that expensive. I guess it is because I enjoy it and I know it is only a hobby and not a way for me to make a living. I thrive on the pennsy so I paint mostly DGLE (for those non pennsy nuts it is Dark Green Locomotive enamel) I have also done a couple of SP brass locos.  The whole point to this is try it yourself! I felt so insecure the first time I took a screwdriver to my own brass loco. But really you are more likely to screw up a plastic one than a brass.  If you are interested,   See some of my work Both of these I bought as basket cases:

Before

 

 After:

Before:

After:

SamV

[twhite]

I dont even get the point of brass engines. I think they are over priced (I know it is because they are [obviously] made of brass which is a decorative and expensive metal) & ugly. This is just my opinion. If you want to get a brass engine, by all means go ahead.

 

Jake--

One of the major reasons for investing in brass locomotives (besides collecting, I mean) is that many of us model railroads where prototype models are just not available in plastic.  For myself, I model Rio Grande standard gauge steam, and aside from a fairly questionable model of a light Rio Grande 2-8-2 by BLI, I am relegated to brass.  I have a large roster, 98% brass, and they don't sit on the shelf, they RUN.  And if you look for them, you can find used brass at prices that are at, or below current steamers from BLI or P2K. 

Loco may be in the same position if he is thinking of purchasing UP steam models that are NOT either a Big Boy or a Challenger.  Except for those locos, UP steam is as rare in current plastic as Rio Grande. 

Brass needs to be worked on and tuned, but it can be made to run as well or better than current plastic steam, and it is easily converted to DCC.  Granted a lot of brass may have 'snob' value as never-run collectors items, but there are those of us out here that run brass because it's really the only thing we can run that replicates the prototype. 

Tom

[Loco]

Very nice work there PRRT!  I've made up my mind to just dive in and do it my self... LoL.  It might take a while before I get around to doing a UP Turbine in brass, but I'm not going anywhere.  I bought some brass scraps today, small pipe and such.  I'll play with brushing, air brushing, baking, different paints.  But it's not on my rush list... I also dropped a good dime on new chrome front and rear breaks for a Softail Custom I'm working on today and going to install them Monday and ride Tuesday so it might be a while fer I get to painting!

[Jake1210]

I dont even get the point of brass engines. I think they are over priced (I know it is because they are [obviously] made of brass which is a decorative and expensive metal) & ugly. This is just my opinion. If you want to get a brass engine, by all means go ahead.

Your right....why even bother with brass?

David B

 

Okay, you got me there. What I'm speaking of are the unpainted models. If someone wants to sell painted brass, (and if I have the extra coin to burn...) I'll buy it. It is just a majority of brass (well brass that I come across anyway) is not painted. No DCC, Okay, I can actually DO  a DCC conversion. Completely painting an engine, not for my life.

I dont even get the point of brass engines. I think they are over priced (I know it is because they are [obviously] made of brass which is a decorative and expensive metal) & ugly. This is just my opinion. If you want to get a brass engine, by all means go ahead.

 

Jake--

One of the major reasons for investing in brass locomotives (besides collecting, I mean) is that many of us model railroads where prototype models are just not available in plastic.  For myself, I model Rio Grande standard gauge steam, and aside from a fairly questionable model of a light Rio Grande 2-8-2 by BLI, I am relegated to brass.  I have a large roster, 98% brass, and they don't sit on the shelf, they RUN.  And if you look for them, you can find used brass at prices that are at, or below current steamers from BLI or P2K. 

Loco may be in the same position if he is thinking of purchasing UP steam models that are NOT either a Big Boy or a Challenger.  Except for those locos, UP steam is as rare in current plastic as Rio Grande. 

Brass needs to be worked on and tuned, but it can be made to run as well or better than current plastic steam, and it is easily converted to DCC.  Granted a lot of brass may have 'snob' value as never-run collectors items, but there are those of us out here that run brass because it's really the only thing we can run that replicates the prototype. 

Tom

 

Really? I might give a looksee on google then!

[ndbprr]

There is nothing to fear in painting a brass engine.  if anything it is more forgiving then plastic because it won't melt or distort from solvents or drying temperatures in an oven with a pilot light on.  One of my GG1 shells bit the bullet whern my wife took the masking tape off the oven dial and preheated it.  made a rather free form modern sculpture.  Worst case scenario with brass is you just strip it and start over.

[ndbprr]

Well to tell the truth I don't do it and have not had a problem.  Let's see - E6, 2-K4s, M1a, I1s, B6sb, A5s, Vgn EL3a so that is 10 that I didn't disassemble the running gear to paint on any of them.  If you think about it you have an axle the identical size as the hole in the bearing filling the hole with a wheel center covering the axle.  There is no way you are going to get paint in there particularly if you put a drop of oil at the junction before you paint.  Most bearings have flanges which protect them from being glued to the frame by the paint.  What possible reason would there be to disassemble the running gear then?  A few turns of the worm and you can hit the frame areas you missed because the spokes were in the way.  Now do I drown it in paint? Of course not.  I use just enough to color the frame and put it on pretty dry.  When done I use a Qtip to clean the tires and flanges with thinner.  Not one has ever not run or ever had a problem.  I did remove the boilers so I could paint them properly and I did take the lead and trailing trucks off as well as the tender trucks but As I said I have never had a problem so why do something that adds two hours or more to the job for no reason?  I also lightly weather an engine when all put back together using antique white around the ashpan and graphite on the top of the engine and tender to represent ashes.  I will also highlight the drivers with a very light coat of dust so they show better but never have I had one that didn't take off immediately upon reassembly. if a problem ever did happen I would have to then take the time to take it apart and clean it but just because somebody said that is the way to do it doesn't mean you have to do it that way.  Now some person is going to tell me I don't know how to paint one so here is my challenge.  Has anybody ever done it my way that regretted it and had a problem?  if not then that is the answer.

[Loco]

Right on Ndbprr!  Keep in mind the my first one will a brass UP Trubine, not a steam :o)  I think the only thing I have to really worry about is the pin strip'en.  As posted, it is metal, you mess up, take it off!!!!

 

[modelmaker51]

I am a custom painter and I do paint and repair brass. Contact me by email.

[greendiamond]

I think you shoud give Roy a shout at Mount Vernon Shops Mt.Vernon Indiana [phone]. He's been in the custom painting business for years and does a marvelous job.  He's also doing DCC installs and sound as well.  I've done business with him for years.

[ndbprr]

No I don't bake the running gear and I don't use Scalecoat.  I still use Floquil.  When you are the painter and the customer you can do what you want :-).  Mine are runners not museum pieces.  Your concerns might be valid if you are baking an engine at a temperture that would distort plastic.  I have always found the heat from a pilot light in an oven is adequate for my purposes.  But again there has been no challenge to my premise that no one has had a problem doing it my way and your arguments are hypothetical. 

[ndbprr]

Once again.  I don't use Scalecoat I use Floquil.  I understand your concerns but unless you have had problems by not disassembling it is a theory.  No one has said, "I did that and had a problem".  I am not painting for others.  I am painting for myself as would be the originator of this thread.

[NevinW]

There have been some very good series of articles published over the years about preparing and painting brass locomotives.  The one in the SL&NGG was particularly good but MR has run good articles too.  The secret of disassembling a locomotive is keeping parts together and good notes about where the parts came from.  Taking pictures as you go helps too.  -  Nevin

[Loco]

Thanks for all the good debate and input.  The brass item thinking about painting would be a UP Gas Turbine.  Which I think would be a tad better for a first time run at painting.  For me, breaking thing down is and assembling is not a big deal.  A good friend and myself once build a complete jet engine from scratch, out of the crates with NO documentation.  That was some 2000+ parts.  Took us three weeks. 

I've got some good equipment for painting... And like I've mentioned, got some bras scrap to see how a few different paint work.  With scrap you can bend it, hit it, scratch it and see how well the paint hold up.  Not to mention different methods of prepping - i.e., etching, primers.

In any case, it’s been fun to learn more about this topic.