I made an interesting discovery today!I took a putty knife and carefully pried up an 8 foot section of WS foam roadbed on my center table, and carefully glued it backdown with clear latex caulk.
So when my train is running on the first table ( glued down with white glue) it is noisy), as soon as it runs onto the center table, it gets real quiet, and as it rolls onto the last table( glued down with white glue) it gets noisy again.
So I will slowly pry up all of my outside roadbed, and reglue it with clear latex caulk.
I read elesewhere that white glue dries hard, and acts like a noise conductor, while clear latex stays soft, and is less of a noise conductor.It works!!!
Moral of the story, don't use white or the yellow wood glue to glue down raodbed on foam subroadbed.
TheK4Kid
TheK4Kid wrote: I made an interesting discovery today!I took a putty knife and carefully pried up an 8 foot section of WS foam roadbed on my center table, and carefully glued it backdown with clear latex caulk.So when my train is running on the first table ( glued down with white glue) it is noisy), as soon as it runs onto the center table, it gets real quiet, and as it rolls onto the last table( glued down with white glue) it gets noisy again.So I will slowly pry up all of my outside roadbed, and reglue it with clear latex caulk.I read elesewhere that white glue dries hard, and acts like a noise conductor, while clear latex stays soft, and is less of a noise conductor.It works!!!Moral of the story, don't use white or the yellow wood glue to glue down raodbed on foam subroadbed. TheK4Kid
I use yellow glue with no issues but I am gluing to wood not foam. Was it quieter than cork or the same ?
Engineer Jeff NS Nut Visit my layout at: http://www.thebinks.com/trains/
Hi Engineer Jeff!
Glad you asked,a buddy of mine was over today, and we did another experiment, using 8 feet of flextrack on mounted a scrap piece of 2 inch foam.Cork on one side, WS foam on the other, both glued down with clear latex caulk.I have a very sensitive DB meter I used to use on a micrphone setup I used for model airplane engine noise measuring in the past( I also build and fly RC).
The Ws foam setup was quiter by just a sllight amount over the cork setup.Several engines were tried on each side.
Each time, Ws foam was slightly quieter, and as engine speed was increased, the cork was noisier, by 1 to 2 Db at top RPM's.
On plwood, it may make less of a difference, but we didn't try that setup.
So if someone wants to experiment and report back, have at it!
TheK4Kid wrote: Hi Engineer Jeff! Glad you asked,a buddy of mine was over today, and we did another experiment, using 8 feet of flextrack on mounted a scrap piece of 2 inch foam.Cork on one side, WS foam on the other, both glued down with clear latex caulk.I have a very sensitive DB meter I used to use on a micrphone setup I used for model airplane engine noise measuring in the past( I also build and fly RC).The Ws foam setup was quiter by just a sllight amount over the cork setup.Several engines were tried on each side.Each time, Ws foam was slightly quieter, and as engine speed was increased, the cork was noisier, by 1 to 2 Db at top RPM's.On plwood, it may make less of a difference, but we didn't try that setup.So if someone wants to experiment and report back, have at it! TheK4Kid
Interesting. Those are the results I would have expected. If you are into experiementing, I'd be curious as to whether yellow glue exhibits the same properties as you've seen with the white glue on foam. I've found that yellow glue has a better bonding agent and may not. I've only used white glue for scenery and ballast.
jbinkley60 wrote: TheK4Kid wrote: Hi Engineer Jeff! Glad you asked,a buddy of mine was over today, and we did another experiment, using 8 feet of flextrack on mounted a scrap piece of 2 inch foam.Cork on one side, WS foam on the other, both glued down with clear latex caulk.I have a very sensitive DB meter I used to use on a micrphone setup I used for model airplane engine noise measuring in the past( I also build and fly RC).The Ws foam setup was quiter by just a sllight amount over the cork setup.Several engines were tried on each side.Each time, Ws foam was slightly quieter, and as engine speed was increased, the cork was noisier, by 1 to 2 Db at top RPM's.On plwood, it may make less of a difference, but we didn't try that setup.So if someone wants to experiment and report back, have at it! TheK4Kid Interesting. Those are the results I would have expected. If you are into experiementing, I'd be curious as to whether yellow glue exhibits the same properties as you've seen with the white glue on foam. I've found that yellow glue has a better bonding agent and may not. I've only used white glue for scenery and ballast.
Hi Engineer Jeff,I would imagine that yellow carpenters glue isn't much different than white glue.Anytime I have used the yellow glue on wood ,it usually hardens after it sets up.I once used it on an RC sailplane wing maade of balsa, and after about hundred landings, glue joints inside the wing started to come aprt because they didn't flex enough,instead, the glue joints that broke apart had rough to sharp edges indicating it became brittle.
Also take into account this wing set in the sun , and heated up and coooled down a number of times, which certainly had to effect the glue joints.
It certainly is less flexible than latex caulk.
TheK4Kid wrote: jbinkley60 wrote: TheK4Kid wrote: Hi Engineer Jeff! Glad you asked,a buddy of mine was over today, and we did another experiment, using 8 feet of flextrack on mounted a scrap piece of 2 inch foam.Cork on one side, WS foam on the other, both glued down with clear latex caulk.I have a very sensitive DB meter I used to use on a micrphone setup I used for model airplane engine noise measuring in the past( I also build and fly RC).The Ws foam setup was quiter by just a sllight amount over the cork setup.Several engines were tried on each side.Each time, Ws foam was slightly quieter, and as engine speed was increased, the cork was noisier, by 1 to 2 Db at top RPM's.On plwood, it may make less of a difference, but we didn't try that setup.So if someone wants to experiment and report back, have at it! TheK4Kid Interesting. Those are the results I would have expected. If you are into experiementing, I'd be curious as to whether yellow glue exhibits the same properties as you've seen with the white glue on foam. I've found that yellow glue has a better bonding agent and may not. I've only used white glue for scenery and ballast. Hi Engineer Jeff,I would imagine that yellow carpenters glue isn't much different than white glue.Anytime I have used the yellow glue on wood ,it usually hardens after it sets up.I once used it on an RC sailplane wing maade of balsa, and after about hundred landings, glue joints inside the wing started to come aprt because they didn't flex enough,instead, the glue joints that broke apart had rough to sharp edges indicating it became brittle.Also take into account this wing set in the sun , and heated up and coooled down a number of times, which certainly had to effect the glue joints.It certainly is less flexible than latex caulk.TheK4Kid
I see in the other thread folks are talking about it getting louder with ballast. I suspect it may be the type of ballast and how it is applied. I use real stone from Arizona Rock & Mineral with 50/50 white glue and water. I haven't noticed any increase in sound. I'll do some additional testing this weekend, since I have just over 50% of my layout ballasted. I do know it gets louder if I get the ballast to high or in an area where the wheels can hit it. I generally use a small screwdriver to remove unwanted ballast. I'll let you know the results of my testing this weekend.
I'll offer my standard caveat with regard to this issue...
I used WS Trackbed. I think it's a wonderful product. But it has a big disadvantage in at least one area I've experienced: superelevated (or banked) curves.
Unfortunately, I found WS Trackbed was so forgiving and "sponge-y" that it practically absorbed my shims (I model a heavy-duty mainline in N scale and so I shimmed the curves with 0.020" styrene):
Cork would have been better on the curves.
Modeling the Rio Grande Southern First District circa 1938-1946 in HOn3.
Dave Vollmer wrote: I'll offer my standard caveat with regard to this issue...I used WS Trackbed. I think it's a wonderful product. But it has a big disadvantage in at least one area I've experienced: superelevated (or banked) curves.Unfortunately, I found WS Trackbed was so forgiving and "sponge-y" that it practically absorbed my shims (I model a heavy-duty mainline in N scale and so I shimmed the curves with 0.020" styrene):Cork would have been better on the curves.
I shimmed one of my curves the same way. I wouldn't say it practically absorbed the shims but there is some give. I didn't find it to be too much of an issue.
I shimmed my curves with 1/16 inch high by 1/8 inch wide balsa strips, worked just fine, without any of the issues you guys mentioned.I glued them in place FIRST ,then layed my track with the balsa strips underneath the outer edges of the ties.Worked great!
Ed
Wow! I've read all the great posts on the subject. "?" All things being considered, which would you consider the EASIEST to use for 3-rail tubular O27 track? As always, thanks.
traindaddy1 wrote:Wow! I've read all the great posts on the subject. "?" All things being considered, which would you consider the EASIEST to use for 3-rail tubular O27 track? As always, thanks.
Hi traindaddy,Are you referring to "superelevating" your track, or roadbed and ballast?If you are superelevating on 027 I am going to take a guess and say you could use either about 3/16 inch balsa strips, but I think basswood strips would work better.Once you know your radius, you can soak the basswood strips in some warm water such as in a bathtub, then take them out, let them dry slighlty, but start to form your radius, and pin them in place as you glue them dowwn .Once they are dry, they will hold their shape.On my track (HO) I already had my roadbed in place, so I layed down my balsa strips,holding them in place with modellers "T" pins, then glued them in place with a "hypodermic" type of glue gun, forming a very small bead of glue on both sides of the strips, let them dry, then used grey latex caulk ,spreading it evenly with a putty knife, so it went just over the balsa strips, then placed my track into it, pinned and weighted the track in place, and let it dry.
As far as going from flat to elevated track, I simply sanded a taper into my balsa strips before I set my track in place.This effectively worked for me, but everyone has different ideas and methods.What I liked about the balsa strips all the way around my radiused curves, is all of the track ties are supported, and I also could sand in the taper from flat track into the "superelevation", instead of using varying thicknesses of materials.Once I was ready to run a train around it, I tried several of my different steam engines, from a BLI J1, a BLI M1a, and a BLI T1 duplex, then a IHC Mountain steamer, and my Proto 2-8-8-2 steamer, and they all negotiated the radiused and superelevated curves just fine, so I started to add cars behind them, and all went well as they made more passes around the curves.My curves on the ends of my layout are 34 inch radius.Since I was using WS foam roadbed, I felt that by putting down the balsa elevating strips, I wouldn''t have to wedge individual pieces in later, under the track, and risk the "dimpling effect" which some guys are experiencing with the foam roadbed.Hope this helped.
traindaddy,
Glad I could help.Happy MRRING !!!
jbinkley60 wrote: TheK4Kid wrote: jbinkley60 wrote: TheK4Kid wrote: Hi Engineer Jeff! Glad you asked,a buddy of mine was over today, and we did another experiment, using 8 feet of flextrack on mounted a scrap piece of 2 inch foam.Cork on one side, WS foam on the other, both glued down with clear latex caulk.I have a very sensitive DB meter I used to use on a micrphone setup I used for model airplane engine noise measuring in the past( I also build and fly RC).The Ws foam setup was quiter by just a sllight amount over the cork setup.Several engines were tried on each side.Each time, Ws foam was slightly quieter, and as engine speed was increased, the cork was noisier, by 1 to 2 Db at top RPM's.On plwood, it may make less of a difference, but we didn't try that setup.So if someone wants to experiment and report back, have at it! TheK4Kid Interesting. Those are the results I would have expected. If you are into experiementing, I'd be curious as to whether yellow glue exhibits the same properties as you've seen with the white glue on foam. I've found that yellow glue has a better bonding agent and may not. I've only used white glue for scenery and ballast. Hi Engineer Jeff,I would imagine that yellow carpenters glue isn't much different than white glue.Anytime I have used the yellow glue on wood ,it usually hardens after it sets up.I once used it on an RC sailplane wing maade of balsa, and after about hundred landings, glue joints inside the wing started to come aprt because they didn't flex enough,instead, the glue joints that broke apart had rough to sharp edges indicating it became brittle.Also take into account this wing set in the sun , and heated up and coooled down a number of times, which certainly had to effect the glue joints.It certainly is less flexible than latex caulk.TheK4Kid I see in the other thread folks are talking about it getting louder with ballast. I suspect it may be the type of ballast and how it is applied. I use real stone from Arizona Rock & Mineral with 50/50 white glue and water. I haven't noticed any increase in sound. I'll do some additional testing this weekend, since I have just over 50% of my layout ballasted. I do know it gets louder if I get the ballast to high or in an area where the wheels can hit it. I generally use a small screwdriver to remove unwanted ballast. I'll let you know the results of my testing this weekend.
Sorry for the delay. I did some testing last night. Except for a couple of spots on the track, I found no difference in sound between areas where I had WS foam on 1/2" plywood glued with yellow glue and other areas where I have the same configuration ballasted. On the couple of spots I found some ballast that I missed that was hitting the wheels (i.e got caught near turnouts where wheel flanges could rub against it). I fixed those spots. I am using Arizona Rock & Mineral ballast glued down with a 50/50 mix of white glue and water.
I guess my ears are more sensitive than your meter....
Dave Vollmer wrote:I'll offer my standard caveat with regard to this issue...I used WS Trackbed. I think it's a wonderful product. But it has a big disadvantage in at least one area I've experienced: superelevated (or banked) curves.Unfortunately, I found WS Trackbed was so forgiving and "sponge-y" that it practically absorbed my shims (I model a heavy-duty mainline in N scale and so I shimmed the curves with 0.020" styrene):Cork would have been better on the curves.
I used stripwood to shim my HO track on the curves and I too did not have a problem with it sinking in to the foam. Doesn't seem to sink in or level out when a heavy loco runs over it, so I can't imagine it happening with N scale. I don;t see how wood vs palstic shims would matter wither, My strips run parallel to the track, about 3 ties long for each shim. I use caulkt o fasten the track to the foam,a nd slide the shims in after the track is down but before the caulk dries, so perhaps the bit of caulk they pick up being slid in is really what holds things up.
--Randy
Modeling the Reading Railroad in the 1950's
Visit my web site at www.readingeastpenn.com for construction updates, DCC Info, and more.