Ballast - Discolored

[NP2626]

Richhotrains,

I hope my opinion on what I see as a non-issue over the discoloration of your ballast isn't a factor in what appears to be a rancorous turn taken by this thread.  I can see no reason that moderation should step in to close this thread!  Very good people are attempting to help remedy this problem!  

Wishing you the best for the resolution of your problem!

Mark

 

 

[richhotrain]

I just sent an email to Liquitex asking if they have a solution to remove the discoloration.  I will let you all know the nature of their reply.

Rich

[zstripe]

richhotrain

Last I checked, you were neither the moderator nor the forum administrator.  So, I don't think that it is up to you to decide when it is time to move on.

I believe it can be said of You also when You complained of a thread about where the Young people have gone. What I said was in jest, You meant what You said about the thread should be locked.

End Of no-where conversation.

Good luck with Your ballast.

Take Care! 

Frank

 

[richhotrain]

zstripe

  

modelmaker51

 

zstripe

I'm sorry.... Woodland scenic's ballast cement and denatured alcohol mix. Dries pretty quick, compared to other ways and is solid. Can be removed very quickly with plain denatured alcohol. I use the denatured alcohol a lot, use it on all the Tamiya acrylic's that I air brush with so I get it by the gal. sizes, which are cheaper.

  Woodland Scenic Cement is eccentialy the same as matte medium.

 

Woodlands Scenic cement is a water based adhesive, seals product on layout, dries to matte finish (flat).

Matte Medium, is useful for exstending colors, (Artist) decreasing gloss and increasing film integrity. It is not an adhesive,there's a difference.

LOL, They even smell totally different.

Take Care! 

Frank

 

This little debate piqued my curiosity so I sent an email to Woodland Scenics.  Their reply?  Scenic Cement is matte medium.

Matte medium is both an extender and a binder.  Artists use it to extend their paints, but another common use of matte medium is as an adhesive.

Rich

[richhotrain]

I received a reply from Liquitex regarding the possibility of removing the discoloration.  

Unfortunately, my thought is no, it cannot be removed. Once the discoloration is in the medium and the medium cannot be removed, it is permanent discoloration on the surface. 

So, I have no choice but to live with the problem or remove and replace the ballast in the affected section of my layout.

I appreciate all of the replies from those who were sincerely interested in trying to help me solve this problem.

Rich

[NP2626]

Even though the Mfger feels nothing can be done, that would not stop me from trying.  Someone suggested Bleach, that just seemed like it would be worth a try, to me.

[superbe]

Why not try a grey wash of your choice and you may be surprised. What have you got to loose.

I have already given away my 2 cent's worth so take this advice for what it cost you. 

And Good Luck

Bob

[ricktrains4824]

Note of interest: Could the discoloration be caused by the dye in the WS ballast coming out/off when the matte medium was applied? Looks to be a brown discoloration, and the WS ballast is made from ground up shells, right?

Only asking because my display shelf, and a section of my yard that are ballasted, (had not finished scenery yet, now rebuilding a large portion of the layout so that was put on hold for now) using WS cement (aka matte medium) did not discolor in the last 4 years.... But I also used real rock ballast, and on top of basswood or plywood, topped with cork. Slightly differed from you, but, if it was the plywood reacting with the matte medium.... (Now, my handlaid segment, that has real wood ties, the stain did run, but, that happens on real tracks too, so I thought no big deal.)

But, is it at all possible that it is the actual ballast discoloring the matte medium? Ground up shells could have been brown(ish) originally, and dyed other colors, therefore, you dilute the dye, you see the underlying color, right?

Just a thought....

[mlehman]

Ricky,

I'm thinking that it's not the colorant in the ballast leaching out. WS must use something rather permanent, or we'd be seeing a LOT of this. Plus, I think Rich was fairly certain this took place long after the matte medium dried. Certainly, if you were going to get any color to bleed from the ballast, this would happen pretty soon after its bonded. Once the matter medium is dry, there's nothing to mobilize the color from the ballast. Which is not to say there may not be some other chemical reaction going on, but not the dye or whatever WS uses to add the color to ballast.

[richhotrain]

mlehman

Ricky,

I'm thinking that it's not the colorant in the ballast leaching out. WS must use something rather permanent, or we'd be seeing a LOT of this. Plus, I think Rich was fairly certain this took place long after the matte medium dried. Certainly, if you were going to get any color to bleed from the ballast, this would happen pretty soon after its bonded. Once the matter medium is dry, there's nothing to mobilize the color from the ballast. Which is not to say there may not be some other chemical reaction going on, but not the dye or whatever WS uses to add the color to ballast.

 

Mike, that is true.  I ballasted that area in 2006, and in a 2011 photo there is no discoloration.

I have thrown my hands up in the air on this one.

It is also interesting to me that this discoloration has not taken place over the entire length of the layout, just in a 4 to 6 foot section.

Rich

[Anonymous]

Rich,

Ive seen this happen to other layouts/module sets.  You can re-ballast the section (12" to the scale foot railroads do it from time to time), it can be time consuming, but it would add a bit of realism to your model railroad. 

$0.02

Andrew

[NorthWest]

Is it possible to add interest to the layout by taking advantage of the discoloration through creating a ballast repair scene?

Stage a couple ballast hoppers on a nearby spur, set up a slow order zone, and pry up some so it looks like it is being replaced?

[SepticSceptic]

1st time posting, came across this when looking for something else, but yes, I have the same issue with different shade WS ballast of the same colour. A few years ago, I picked up a WS Grand Valley Layout kit, and have been steadily working thru it, as a complete novice, learning and making mistakes, etc, After all the track etc had been ballasted, I required more ballast of the same colour, but slightly finer to make the gravel roads. The current batch of the fine Brown Ballast is definitely lighter than the medium ballast that I had laid a few months earlier. I did manage to tone it in some with a 1:4 burnt umber wash in some of the lighter areas, but as the last couple of months have gone thru summer, I have noticed that the lighter finer ballast that I had recently laid down for the gravel roads, and NOT washed with the Burnt Umber had slowly darkened to match the originally laid ballast, so everything is now relatively uniform in colour. I am using 1:4 dilute PVA spray, and 1:2 dilute PVA dropper. So perhaps a combination of heat, humidity and adhesive type ? I do know that PVA will go yellow-ish after a while, but I guess in the long run it removes the "brightness" and colours it to more natural tones. Cheers SS