I'm in the enviable position of starting fresh with an unfinished basement that will allow me a sizeable layout as I retire and change from N to HO and DC to (probably wireless) DCC. But in the process of finishing the room, I'll need to decide about electrical supply. The house was built in 1949 and has only a couple of overhead pull-chain bulbs, no wall outlets, and presently no ceiling; the floor joists are only about 7 feet from the floor. What can you advise about number of circuits, amperage, location of outlets, overhead lighting in a low ceiling, and so on? I don't have an unlimited budget, but I can afford to do things right--the Chancellor of the Exchequer is with me on this.
I expect to have an around-the-wall, more or less L-shaped layout about 25 feet on the long side and 15 on the short, plus a little 7-foot "serif" on the L. I don't expect to own more than three or four locos and will likely never have more than an occasional great-nephew operating with me. I don't anticipate any special lighting effects, but I'd be open to suggestions about dealing with the low ceiling: track lighting up in the joists or a short valance all around or the like. These would presumably affect the total current requirements in various ways (the contractor I'm working with says that a standard drop ceiling with light panels will make the room too "short").
I'd be grateful for advice, especially based on actual experience. Thanks.
I used the existing ceiling light circuit for room lighting. I then added another 20 amp circuit that was split between wall receptacles and the actual 'layout' lighting. I added insulation/vapor barrier, and had a 'sub' sheetrock the walls/ceiling. If you are not comfortable with doing the wiring, get a qualified electrician. A 'drop' ceiling is nice, but can be a lot more expensive and you already have a low ceiling clearance as is.
I used a series if standard shop lights(4' dual flourescent) for the layout jighting. They work fine, but I would look at some kind of track lighting now. Do not get the high intesity type - way too much heat. Get the cheaper ones that can use standard CFL lamps. Track lighting has the advantage of being able to focus your lighting, but also has the disadvantage of being 'spotty'. A friend used track lighting, and would up buying twice as many lamps as he originaly calculated to get even coverage. They sure work nice though!
Jim
Modeling BNSF and Milwaukee Road in SW Wisconsin
My quick advice (more detail below) is that for an older basement, you can never have too many outlets and never have too much overhead lighting. And it pays to have a professional look over the situation and advise on adding capacity to your circuit breaker boxes.
The other piece of advice is -- suspended ceilings look wonderful compared to the usual basement ceiling but don't necessarily go that route if your basement ceiling seems low. read on ...
When we bought our house, the area which I quickly called "the train room" , somewhat "L" shaped, had just two wall outlets, a suspended ceiling, rather low and almost industrial sized duct work [even our HVAC guy marvels at it], and a relative handful of flourescent light fixtures. We added more wall outlets, many more lights, and split the lighting circuit so that not all of it is controlled from one switch.
At the same time we put in two entirely new circuit breaker boxes due to some other electrical work we did. So overall capacity was not an issue but the work needed to be done on our circa 1952 house. This work needs a pro in my opinion (and likely a building permit and inspection at least where I live it does).
First mistake was that I did not change out the light switches, which may have been original with the house, and we soon learned they were old old 5w capacity: they overheated and smoked. That was easy enough to fix and I did that work myself. the electrician should have thought of that.
While the suspended ceiling that came with the house (presumably added in the 70s) is nice looking and helps control dust, overall the height of the basement is low, and the sense is that you are hemmed in from above (or rather that is my sense, at 6'8"). The workshop room does not have a suspended ceiling and I do not get that hemmed in feeling there at all.
If I was starting from scratch I would actually toy with the idea of NOT having a suspended ceiling but putting the light fixtures between the joists and painting the entire basement ceiling pure white. So do not assume you need to go with a suspended ceiling unless you have an extra course or two of cinderblock wall.
Due to the duct work there are some spots where I simply could not put a light fixture. I told myself the room was so well lit that I would never notice a gap or two in the lighting. Ah but I was wrong. You do notice it -- it is like looking at someone smile who has one gray tooth.
And yet maybe this is the wrong time to be putting flourescent tubes everywhere. Given where technology is going, I think that within a few years you are going to see ceilings that are a very solid grid of LEDs.
What do I hate the most about my situation? The flourescent fixtures that came with the house are two tube fixtures and the covers are these plastic egg box things that are almost impossible to remove and put back when changing out a tube. The new ones are four-tube fixtures and the cover is hinged. i should have changed out ALL the fixtures.
Dave Nelson
While other folks have commented on lighting, I will talk about outlets etc.When I wired up my room, I put in a couple of dedicated circuits. - One was for anything that had to do with the layout. I would recommend one outlet on each wall minimum. These outlets can / should be controlled with a wall switch. Mine is above the 'sky' at about head level next to the entry door. This controls anything that has to do with the layout, such as the DCC system, power for building lights, etc. I use a power strip, also with a switch, to control the DCC system at the primary electrical location. Since I have an upper level also, this circuit also controls some CFL lights under the upper level benchwork that help light up the lower part of the layout. This light string is just 'plugged in to' a layout wall outlet. These outlets are marked for train use only. However there is an exception. My workbench power strip is plugged into one of these outlets. So when I leave the room and turn off layout power, the power to the workbench turns off as well, just in case I for got to turn off the soldering iron or other equipment.- The second circuit was for the normal working receptacles. Anything that had to do with the normal everyday work or electrical use in the room. This is a normal house circuit with no wall switch. One or two outlets per wall. Used for work lights, vacuum cleaner, etc.- And then there is the room lighting circuit as has been talked about before.
Elmer.
The above is my opinion, from an active and experienced Model Railroader in N scale and HO since 1961.
(Modeling Freelance, Eastern US, HO scale, in 1962, with NCE DCC for locomotive control and a stand alone LocoNet for block detection and signals.) http://waynes-trains.com/ at home, and N scale at the Club.
The LION is building his layout in a former classroom above our library. Yes, not every house has classrooms and libraries, but that is what you get for being a peon!
Anyway, this classroom was built in the 1940s, and has two outlets, one in the north and one in the south. It has 12' tall ceilings with a pair of 8' florescent fixtures. As you might guess, the LION needs far more outlets than this.In the front of the room I put an extension box on the outlet and then made a whole string of outlet boxes above my workbench, and supplied them with a switch, so that all of the power can be cut off when I leave the room. This provides all of the power that I need for the work bench and for the layout...
BUT IT DOES NOT SUPPLY ENOUGH POWER for building a layout! You need outlets every few feet along the layout in order to plug in drills (2), motor tools (2), work lamps and a soldering iron. And a walk in layout has many many fascia feet to work with.
In an older layout I put outlet boxes every 8 feet or so, but when I took that layout apart and re-used the tables, I abandoned those circuits. I would not now even try to energize them for the lines have been cut in several places as the tables were rearranged.
THOUGHTS:
CEILING: Forget the drop ceiling, since you have not started yet, just spray paint the ceiling white (or black or blue--LION would do white) and let it go at that. This leaves you with studs to hang clamp on work-lights. As a matter of fact, dad has his basement ceiling covered with outlet boxes, he can put work lights wherever he likes and he doesn't even do model trains. (Thus he does not need to worry about tool cords destroying HO scale features)
WIRING: Make three or four circuits: Room Lights and room outlets; workbench (and maybe the layout fascia); and the railroad proper. IF YOU ARE NOT COMPETENT OR COMFORTABLE DOING HIGH VOLTAGE ELECTRICAL WORK UP TO CODE: GET AN ELECTRICIAN TO DO IT FOR YOU. If this is the case, you may want to build your table first so that he will have a fascia to mount outlets on. Electricians are cheap and will do the work more quickly than you can.
The Route of the Broadway Lion The Largest Subway Layout in North Dakota.
Here there be cats. LIONS with CAMERAS
Thank you, friends, for your responses. I should have said at the outset that I haven't the least intention of doing any of this myself, but I appreciate the consensus on having the professional brought in. I particularly like the idea of one circuit for outlets (and lights?) and another for everything train, including the workbench. As I'll have room for a sort of lounge at one end, this will be especially useful. And thanks for the views on ceiling and lighting options, too.
I'd make a few suggestions:
Before I added fixtures over the aisle.
AFTER.
Marlon
See pictures of the Clinton-Golden Valley RR
I have a single 15 amp circuit controlling the electrical needs of my layout which is 42' x 25'.
Remember this regarding the number of outlets and light fixtures. A 15 amp circuit requires 14 gauge wire and will support up to 1800 watts before tripping the circuit breaker. A 20 amp circuit requires 12 gauge wire and will support up to 2400 watts before tripping the circuit breaker.
Rich
Alton Junction
1. You want at least two separate circuits, one for the lights and another for the wall outlets. This way should a power tool pop a circuit breaker the lights stay on. It looks foolish (and may even be dangerous) to have a stalled power tool plunge the room into darkness.
2. It's really nice to have all the wall outlets controlled by a single switch at the door. This way you can flip off the power on your way out and not have to worry about that soldering iron you left plugged in somewhere.
3. You want a duplex wall outlet every 4 or 5 feet. You want to be able to use power tools every where on the layout and power tools only come with 4 foot cords. If you cannot provide this many wall sockets, plan on buying some extension cords.
4. Think about lighting. For working on the layout you want all the light you can get. For operations and showing the finished layout to visitors, you want good light on the layout and the aisles dimmed down somewhat. Ideally to have lamps concealed behind the fascia lighting the layout and some of the ceiling lamps turned off. Think about putting half the ceiling lamps on one switch and the other half on another switch, so you can turn half of them off, to lower the light level to something relaxing.
5. Think about good color rendition from your fluorescent lamps. The new fluorescents are much better than the standard 40 watt tubes we have used since WWII. It worth shopping a few lighting stores and looking at the colors of the lamps. Bring some colored samples especially of red and boxcar brown which fluorescents don't render well. You should be able to find some lamps that make your samples look good. For photography you want the best color rendition you can get.
6. Don't install a suspended ceiling unless you will have adequate headroom afterward. If the basement ceiling is too low, a suspended ceiling makes it worse. Those bare ceiling joists and subfloor will look better for a coat of paint, in fact two or three coats of paint to cover dirt and stains that have been accumulating since 1949. It's worth renting a spray gun to do the ceiling. Think of a light color to make the room brighter.
7. These days a branch circuit is wired with #12 wire and takes a 20 amp circuit breaker. 20 amps will run any kind of portable power tool. It's likely to be just you working on the layout, so you can only run one power tool at a time. I'd think a single branch circuit for the wall outlets would be enough, and two would be overkill. For lights, a 20 amp branch circuit will power 60 of the standard 40 Watt fluorescent tubes. If you use two tube fixtures that's 30 fixtures, which seems like more than enough to light a single layout.
David Starr www.newsnorthwoods.blogspot.com
dstarr 1. You want at least two separate circuits, one for the lights and another for the wall outlets. This way should a power tool pop a circuit breaker the lights stay on. It looks foolish (and may even be dangerous) to have a stalled power tool plunge the room into darkness. 2. It's really nice to have all the wall outlets controlled by a single switch at the door. This way you can flip off the power on your way out and not have to worry about that soldering iron you left plugged in somewhere.
Better yet, put half the lighting and half the wall outlets on one circuit and the balance of the lighting and wall outlets on the other circuit. Then, add two single pole switches at the door.
Look into adding a "whole house" surge suppressor - Covers whole house!!
Before thinking about drywall on the ceiling I would suggest that seeing as it is an old house you might want to add some outlets on the first floor as old houses did not have many outlets in these rooms. Once you put up drywall you will not be able to get to the upstairs walls without taking down some of your new ceiling. I am a retired electrician and I have been out to repair electrical problems and have not even been able to find junction boxes in the basement because someone put drywall on the ceiling and covered them all.
lotrain Before thinking about drywall on the ceiling I would suggest that seeing as it is an old house you might want to add some outlets on the first floor as old houses did not have many outlets in these rooms. Once you put up drywall you will not be able to get to the upstairs walls without taking down some of your new ceiling. I am a retired electrician and I have been out to repair electrical problems and have not even been able to find junction boxes in the basement because someone put drywall on the ceiling and covered them all.
Which is of course not legal. There must be access to all boxes.
scoutII Look into adding a "whole house" surge suppressor - Covers whole house!!
Don't forget the back-up Generator. Ours comes up automatically with a power failure. We are back to full power within five seconds, even if the utility is dead. The computers still need battery back-up to bridge that five second drop. My battery back-up can keep up 20 amps for 20 minutes, but then it powers four servers and three workstations. The transfer switches are directly below my train room. There are three of them for different circuits on our campus. They make a lot of noise when they throw, but then they are big switches.
roar
Unfortunately your choices with a low ceiling are limited. One good ways to go though is recesed lighting, cheap to install in an unfinished ceiling and very nice looking after the ceiling goes up.