Hello,
I usually use Plaster Cloth for all my hills, but I want to try a new avenue. I recently bought Window Screen with Plaster of Paris. Does anyone have any thoughts on this? I first put down Foam, then newspaper, then I am going to put the screen over the top with Plaster of Paris. I'm sure this is good, but wanted to know if someone has had bad luck with this.
Thank you.
I'm not sure what the window screen does for you. If you've already got a foam base for the hills, you could just put the plaster on top of that. Or do you have a flat foam base, and you're using the newspaper and screen to form the hills? In that case, the newspaper seems like the extra step.
It takes an iron man to play with a toy iron horse.
Yeah, not sure what the window screen is buying you here. It's typically used to span gaps between supports, as with a cardboard web type of structure. You're already planning a base of foam plus newspapaer, so the screen may not be providing a benefit. Go ahead and try it since you've got the materials, though. You may find that you like it.
Rob Spangler
I used plaster-over-screen for my scenery, but opted for Durabond-90 instead of plaster of Paris. The 90 minute hardening time allows plenty of time for application, and buying it in 33lb. bags is economical. I used temporary wood supports, clamped in place and easily removed from below with open grid benchwork. The area shown below still needs to be covered with trees, but the hardshell is plenty strong enough to allow me to support myself when stretching for those hard-to-reach areas.
I used flat interior latex house paint to colour the hardened plaster, but thinned it about 50% with tap water. This made it much easier to apply. Once the ground cover and other scenery is in place, the plaster isn't generally visible.
Wayne
I would stick with the Plaster Cloth. It is marvelous stuff and easy to work with.
As others have asked, why bother with window screen? And, as far as plaster of paris goes, it dries unevenly, releases heat while setting, hard to work with, and cracks unexpectedly.
Rich
Alton Junction
I would not use plaster of paris. It is too brittle for that application,.
Window screen in this case is cheaper than plaster cloth and holds shape better, though you will probably find you need to staple it to wooden supports to get it to remain formed. I'm assuming the foam is just there for support and very rough shaping. That's a pretty typical style.
I agree with the others -- sounds like you have multiple scenery methods going.
If you're using window screen, the foam and newspapers are superfluous. Personally, I've always found metal window screen to be too finicky, and those edges are sharp, too. But go ahead and try it -- you might like it more than I do.
Connecticut Valley Railroad A Branch of the New York, New Haven, and Hartford
"If you think you can do a thing or think you can't do a thing, you're right." -- Henry Ford
I have used screen wire, supported by coathanger wire, for 40 years. The coathanger wire forms the ridges and canyon bases in the mountain territory, and the screen wire is attached with small wires around the coathangers. The screen wire can be bent into smaller terrain features. I use 2-ply paper towels, dipped in Hydrocal b-11 (or equivalent), laid on the screen. When dry, rock molds can be applied where desired, after "misting" the dried towels-and-hydrocal with a sprayer, to assure the hydrocal in the molds will adhere. Results can be seen in the January 2011 MR, "Diamond stacks in the desert".
The screen provides a firmer base than cardboard strips or wadded newspaper for mountains, and leaves the area underneath open for hidden trackage. Coloring can be done with acrylic paint washes.
If you already have the foam, just carve that and save all the extra steps and the plaster mess. You can carve anything you want with a steak knife including rock walls and cliffs and just color it.
If I'm going to plant trees, I use foam. If there will only be puff ball trees, a shell works fine.
As for using the screen, it has been used successfully for years. You can use plaster cloth, plaster soaked paper or paper towels or glue soaked paper towels over it.
Good luck,
Richard
If you want to go with plaster cloth, check out American Science and Surplus. It goes for $12.50 for 10 yds by 12"; quite a bit more material than Woodland Scenics at a comparable cost.
Marlon
See pictures of the Clinton-Golden Valley RR
You said new... there is nothing new with plaster paris
This is new
http://kitforums.com/viewtopic.php?f=8&t=4737&start=10#p90572
Very lightweight when dry.
model in O. the Western NY and Ontario Railroad
Well,
Thank you everyone for all your input, you can always count on multiple answers to try and solve a problem.
To answer some of your questions, I was using the 1" Foam just for basic structure and height. I then bought the window screen that is flexible. It's not metal. So I was going to use the news paper to form the basic terrain in between the foam & the lay screen to hold the shape with the plaster cloth. Now, I would like to hear more about this plaster soaked paper towl. What kind of plaster? Could I just dilute 90-min. sheet rock and soak paper towls with this?
mj
Typically, the Hard Shell method was developed before plaster cloth was found to be of easy use for model RR scenery.The original hard shell method used torn strips of paper towels dipped in a wet plaster mixture, then laid on a form made of cardboard strips that formed a webbing of sorts. The plaster used was Hydrocal, a form of gypsum cement. It dried really hard. Then a layer of plaster of paris about 1/4 inch thick was applied over that after it was dry, to form the more detailed shapes. Plaster rock castings were added to that and blended in with plaster. The rock castings were cast in place most of the time.Since then, the mountain base for hard shell can be made of almost anything including window screen, balled up newspaper, foam, and anything else one can think of.You can use plaster of paris for dipping the paper towel strips in, but you will need more than one layer to get the same strength that you will get with Hydrocal.Dipping paper towel strips into soupy plaster was a rather messy method, but it did work good. Since then, plaster cloth has become the norm. It does cost more and you should put at least two layers on, but doesn't create half the mess that the original hard shell method created.
Wall patching products or dry wall mud are not acceptable as they are not very strong.
Elmer.
The above is my opinion, from an active and experienced Model Railroader in N scale and HO since 1961.
(Modeling Freelance, Eastern US, HO scale, in 1962, with NCE DCC for locomotive control and a stand alone LocoNet for block detection and signals.) http://waynes-trains.com/ at home, and N scale at the Club.
gandydancer19 Wall patching products or dry wall mud are not acceptable as they are not very strong.
I'll agree with you on the drywall mud, but Durabond, a patching plaster, is extremely strong. You can mix it thin or thick and it will set in the allotted time. It may be applied as a skim coat or an inch thick. and I've had no problems with cracking or weakness in either case.
I use it directly over screen, applied with a wide putty knife or scraper. This does require decent support for the screen, but on L-girder or open grid layouts, that can be removed once the plaster has set. Before it begins to harden, I use a cheap 2" brush, dipped in water, to smooth the more obvious tooling marks.
It also makes passable water effects, and is useful for casting bridge piers and abutments, too.
Dear Wayne
Your curved benchwork is gorgeous!
What did you use to wrap around the curved exterior?
--Jaddie
I was using wire screen and plaster since my first attempt at a layout sometime around 1954. Also used plaster and-or Paper Mache' and even Permascene over broken bits of cieling tile, and even wadded up newspaper. Then sometime around 1954, RMC carried a 2 page article on using plaster impregnated gauze bandage over a relativelely open framework. I don't recal seing the first article on hardshell until 1959 or 60, when I was in high school (memories a bit fuzzy on the year) in MR. I have a scan file of an article in Sept 1986 RMC about using regular synthetic dress material applied over window screen with thinned white glue for large open areas, with foam glued undeneath where trees could be stuck in. I also seem recently to have read about something called Red Rosin paper, a kind of building mataerial. It's a thick paper that can be wetted with water and molded into shape, that when dry can be used as a form for any of the other methods.
When I was working, some of the Electonics supply houses I dealt with when working used to use a slitted heavy paper as a packing. When pulled from the ends, it stretched into a pattern that reminded me of some of the metal mesh that Micro-Mark handles as a scenery backing. I've seen it in ofice supply stores, and looks more reasonaly priced than window screen or extensible mesh.
I've even read about having a scenery feature made from layers of homosote or ceiling tile glued together, rasped into shape, and just paintesd with a layer or two of the desired color of house paint.
Heck, I even remember trying to find something else that was discussed in one of the publications. Fiber filled Texture Paint instead of Plaster. Guess what the fibers were back then? Of course!! What else! Asbestos!
Lots of alternatives. Back when I first read aout the cast bandage, I wanted to get some, but couldn't find a pharmacy that carried it. At 10 or 12, I probably couldn't have afforded it, anyway.
Hi Jaddie, and thanks for your kind words.
The layout fascia and the coved corners of the backdrop were done with 1/8" Masonite. Most of the layout is on 1"x4" open grid framework, so there's a solid backing for most of the fascia, except, of course, on the area in the photo to which you're referring. For that, I simply added risers (1"x2" and other lumber which was on-hand) around the perimeter of the curves, then used countersunk drywall screws to secure the Masonite. Some of the risers also support the 3/4" plywood subroadbed, while in other places there are separate risers for each. Don't waste money on "Tempered" Masonite, either - the "tempering" refers only to the hardness of the surface, and it's no more flexible than the regular stuff.
Here's a better look at the support structure:
Once fastened in place, it's quite strong and doesn't require continuous support to hold the curves:
This outside corner is about an 8" radius, but you can go even tighter if necessary:
In the photo above, you can also see the curved corner of the backdrop. The gap is to allow for framing for an eventual second level of the benchwork.
Hey:
If I want to do the soaked Paper towl, how would i go about that? Do I just dip it in water and then put plaster on, or do I put plaster on then dip it?
mjmueller If I want to do the soaked Paper towl, how would i go about that? Do I just dip it in water and then put plaster on, or do I put plaster on then dip it?
You make a thin mixture of plaster (say 50/50 plaster/water) and dip the towel in that.
Hi MJ
When I started in the hobby about 3 years ago I tried different methods of doing things. With mountains I like the foam and carving best. In the first mountain and almost everything else I used foam. I can cut and flick a piece of foam out and get what I think is a more natural cracked and broken look. I used the 4'X8' sheets of 2" foam. It may be that some prefer the older and more rounded look of plaster and cloth, for older mountains. The second picture is plaster cloth draped over crumpled news paper with rock castings glued on with light weight Hydro Cal. Just my
There may have been a glitch (lines) in the first picture in uploading.
Lee
[View:http://cs.trains.com/TRCCS/themes/trc/utility/:550:0]
Thanks for replying. Truly gorgeous work!