A couple of things people say really bother me because I like "straight talk.".
First, when people say "a little bit" when they really mean "a whole lot."
Second, when people say "duckunder" when they really mean "crawl under."
Mark
kissmethod wrote: SamHow are you getting into the central isleway, a duckunder or a swing bridge section? As time goes on you will dislike a duckunder. I am 62 and would not design a layout with a duckunder for any amount of money.Steve Moore
Sam
How are you getting into the central isleway, a duckunder or a swing bridge section? As time goes on you will dislike a duckunder. I am 62 and would not design a layout with a duckunder for any amount of money.
Steve Moore
Apparently I didn't make myself clear on either post. I have no intention of any duckunders. I will have 2 swing down bridge sections but no duckunders. If I want to move between isles I will stop the trains, swing the bridge down,put it back up and start again....... Sorry if I sound cross but I hear everybody loud and clear " no duckunders" Trust me I just had back surgery at 40 so I am not going to put any.... Some of you are missing my concept I want and need wide radius curves. 40" is my minimum with an "E" shape dog bone etc how can I get that? I don't mind the comments of the plan but we all have criteria that we want or need in our layout. Mine is running large steam PRR T1's, Q2's S2 etc. I am going to want to sit and watch them. I am not into switching, or proto running with a fast clock etc... As for the turntable section.... I have already laid it out on the floor with the roundhouse. I need 6 ft accross just to accomodate the roundhouse half moon area. How can I get that section narrower with that design? I don't want to change that part since I do want to model that section of the Lawrence Jct as closely as possible. Maybe this will clear up some issues.
PRRT1MAN wrote:Some of you are missing my concept I want and need wide radius curves. 40" is my minimum with an "E" shape dog bone etc how can I get that? I don't mind the comments of the plan but we all have criteria that we want or need in our layout. Mine is running large steam PRR T1's, Q2's S2 etc. I am going to want to sit and watch them. I am not into switching, or proto running with a fast clock etc... As for the turntable section.... I have already laid it out on the floor with the roundhouse. I need 6 ft accross just to accomodate the roundhouse half moon area. How can I get that section narrower with that design? I don't want to change that part since I do want to model that section of the Lawrence Jct as closely as possible. Maybe this will clear up some issues.
What we're trying to tell you is, sometimes you need to compromise between what you want and what is practical to have. Many of us, myself included, speak from experience.
But hey, go ahead and do what you want. You'll find out the hard way. It'll cost more and waste your time, but maybe that's all right with you.
PRRT1MAN wrote: Some of you are missing my concept I want and need wide radius curves. 40" is my minimum with an "E" shape dog bone etc how can I get that? .<snip>...As for the turntable section..<snip>.. I have already laid it out on the floor with the roundhouse. I need 6 ft accross just to accomodate the roundhouse half moon area. ..<snip>... I don't want to change that part since I do want to model that section of the Lawrence Jct as closely as possible. Maybe this will clear up some issues.
We haven't missed a thing, but other than mentioning Lawerence Jct, this is the FIRST time you have mentioned a minimum radius or that you require this big of a roundhouse or what your target engines were. If one were picky, one might notice that you haven't even told us what scale your are designing for. I'm assuming HO, but you haven't said. I'm sure you have some very specific goals but if you don't share them, then you leave it up to OUR imagination to design stuff. A camel is a horse designed by a committee.
My suggestion is that you define your goals, objectives and restrictions are and share that with us. Then sketch out the basic prototype trackplan and the train flows. Once you figure out the train flows, then that will tell you where you need staging in relation to the other components. Then its just a matter of fitting those pieces into the room.
Dave H.
Dave H. Painted side goes up. My website : wnbranch.com
PRRT1MAN wrote: Apparently I didn't make myself clear on either post. I have no intention of any duckunders. I will have 2 swing down bridge sections but no duckunders. If I want to move between isles I will stop the trains, swing the bridge down,put it back up and start again....... Sorry if I sound cross but I hear everybody loud and clear " no duckunders" Trust me I just had back surgery at 40 so I am not going to put any.... Some of you are missing my concept I want and need wide radius curves. 40" is my minimum with an "E" shape dog bone etc how can I get that? I don't mind the comments of the plan but we all have criteria that we want or need in our layout. Mine is running large steam PRR T1's, Q2's S2 etc. I am going to want to sit and watch them. I am not into switching, or proto running with a fast clock etc... As for the turntable section.... I have already laid it out on the floor with the roundhouse. I need 6 ft accross just to accomodate the roundhouse half moon area. How can I get that section narrower with that design? I don't want to change that part since I do want to model that section of the Lawrence Jct as closely as possible. Maybe this will clear up some issues.
Getting a little whupped with what you think is a brilliant idea is normal. Folks are actually looking out for your best interests. If you really didn't want criticism, don't put it out there in the 1st place. If the criticism is coming from an unexpected direction, then all the more reason to listen carefully.
My initial sticking point is the two rather long, separated aisles - especially in light of your statement about wanting to sit and watch the trains run. Taking you literally at your word about how you want to operate, 3 narrow aisles separated by a barrier that requires you to shut down operations to cross doesn't fit well with sitting in a comfy chair watching them run. Your aisles aren't wide enough for a roll-around chair without hitting the layout as you move to view the layout from all the vantage points a long aisle set provides. Building it high (by high, I mean track at 52" and higher), it's not going to be very visible from a seated position unless you use a bar stool. Bar stools are not the easiest things to get up and down from, and carry to a new vantage point. And the roundhouse section at 6ft across is going to require a low layout (and a good strong back) just to reach the middle for both initial construction and future maintenance. Or do you truly believe you will always have 100% perfect alignment between the turntable and the roundhouse tracks? Or that you will never accidently run a locomotive into the turntable pit (even the prototype managed that feat occasionally)? I fear your layout will quickly become too inconvenient to both operate and maintain - assuming it gets built to completion.
Doesn't matter whether it is a swing bridge or a duck under or a liftout - any kind of barrier in the aisles during operations is a design disaster waiting to be revealed. How convenient is the situation going to be when you want to view operations from one of the other aisles? What happens when one of your prize locomotives decides to take up floor diving in another aisle? I learned something from my father's layouts with various access arrangements (liftout, swing down, and duckunder) - all barriers become duckunders or crash-throughs in moments of crisis.
To get your 40" radius on a peninsula, how about an 84" wide section with a 24" separation aisle in the middle?. The middle access aisle would only be used when it made construction more convenient because there is only a 30" reach from either primary aisle. During operations, the center access would never be used. Just a suggestion.
My rule of thumb is that aisles can be separated by barriers for construction if it adds significantly to the plan. But barriers between aisles during operation don't work for me.
Which is why I had to ditch my inital plan for my space that was basically a doughnut with center pit and an aisle on the outside of one side of the doughnut. The pain in the neck to get to the center pit was worth it for the extra layout space I gained, but I realized that having to get to both outside and inside during operations was not worth the pain it would inflict.
my thoughts, your choices
Fred W
Here is a plan for your consideration.24 ft x 31 ft room.
2 ft shelf all around the room. From each of the 24 ft sides there is a peninsula sticking out in the room. That should allow you to have minimum 3 ft aisles, 2 ft wide pinch points at the widest point in the blob, 2 ft wide shelf, 4 ft wide penisulas, 24 ft long with blobs big enough for 40" radius. I have posted a blue-sky for layout plan. It has 3 divisions, red, blue and green that radiate out from the wye. In addition there is the terminal/yard (magenta) and staging (lt. blue). Orient the trackplan in the room so that the the entrance door is on the blue division. By doing that you can leave the drop leaf/liftout/swingout open during open houses and still run a looooong continuous loop on the red and green divisions. If you don't want that much red division I'm sure you can put a loop in at the base of the peninsula by staging and route the red line into staging, then use the red peninsula for the PLE/B&O/NYC railroads. By double tracking or triple tracking the PRR (not a stretch usually) you can get a whole bunch of cars and trains orbiting at the same time.