Why "scale" can be such a difficult concept...

[kstrong]

G is not a scale.

Historically, it is. From the late 60s to the mid 80s, "G scale" was just that--1:22.5. The term was coined by LGB as a marketing tool. "G" stood for either "Gross" (large) or "Garten" (garden), depending on which piece of literature you were reading. Half-inch (1:24) was typically noted to be "compatible with 'G scale'," but not specifically called "G scale." 1:32 was still (correctly) referred to as "#1 scale." When Bachmann entered the scene, they chose LGB's established "G scale" of 1:22.5--not the equally common 1:24--for their Big Hauler line, adopting the term "G scale" to their line as well. It wasn't until Aristo-Craft and USA began their lines of 1:29 trains that the term "G scale" began to take on a more generic meaning. It didn't help the definition of the scale that LGB was beginning to produce standard-gauge(ish) models in scales other than 1:22.5, and still calling them "G scale." But yes, it did start out as a specific scale.

Currently, the statement "G is not a scale" is technically correct in the eyes of the NMRA. They group all outdoor scales from 1:32 to 1:20.3 together under the generic "G" designation, while at the same time (in a parallel set of standards) identifies 1:32 as #1 scale and 1:20.3 as "F" scale. They do not mention any scales between those (1:29, 1:22.5, or 1:24) in that parallel set of standards.

NMRA "Hi-Rail" standards

NMRA "Standard" standards

In my opinion, the NMRA has always relegated large scale trains to the world of "toys," and as such has never really known (or cared) what to do with us. That's why the NMRA carries little, if any weight in large scale circles.

So, yes--today, "G" is more of a generic term than a specific scale, and with MOROP's reorganization of the European scales, "IIm" would be the "official" scale designation for what LGB coined as "G scale." But for us old-schoolers, "G" will always have roots to 1:22.5, despite its generic overtones and what this or that group now says it means.

And Pluto will always be a planet.

Later,

K

[GearDrivenSteam]

But the gauge isn't necessarily the same. What if a modeler wants to run 1:20.3, but in standard gauge? Or, likewise, what if someone wanted to run 1/29...which is considered standard G scale, but wanted to run narrow gauge. In those two instances, the gauge certainly would not be the same.

[cabbage]

Here in the Uk -we have all gone our own way -in more ways than one...

O scale is normally refered to as 7mm scale or 1:43 on 32mm track.
1 scale is normally refered to as 10mm scale or 1:32 on 45mm track.

sm32 is 16mm on 32mm track sm45 is 16mm on 45mm track -both are 1:19.1

15mm scale is the scale normally used for LGB based products on metre gauge at 1:22.5 on 45mm track -BUT it is very close to the correct Gauge 3 Scale std gauge at 1:22.6 on 64mm track

This has lead to SEVERAL UK suppliers producing stuff that is suitable for both of the above!!!

Having ploughed through the morass that is the NMRA standards -I can find no match for 15mm or 16mm or Gauge 3 -let alone the great american favourite of 7/8ths scale....

So, yes scale is a very difficult concept -more so when it doesn't "officially" exist!!!

How does it go? Oh yes!

"This is not the Eighth Dimension -this is New Jersery"

regards

ralph

[Santa Fe Kent]

 

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[FJ and G]

Thought I'd throw up a picture illustrating scale and gauge.

2 steam: O gauge, O scale, quarter inch scale, 1:48, standard gauge 4'8.5"

boxcar: gauge 1, 7/8 inch scale, 1:13.7, 2'gauge

tipper and mine car: O gauge, 7/8 inch scale, 1:13.7, 18"gauge

Notice that the boxcar the mine cars are the same scale but different gauges

Notice too that the mine car and the steam locos are the same gauges but different scales

have a nice day

[TheJoat]

The problem is that the manufacuters use the term "G Scale" to indicate anything from 1:20 to 1:32.   And they don't get called on it.

This person and car are both "G scale", but you might not feel right having them together.

[vsmith]

The problem is that the manufacuters use the term "G Scale" to indicate anything from 1:20 to 1:32.   And they don't get called on it.

This person and car are both "G scale", but you might not feel right having them together.

Good example, however I found that even supposedly 1/22.5 figures can be too large for 1/18 die cast cars. Its such a hit and miss situation in large scale. I agree with thos who call G scale GUMMI scale, because like a Gummi Bear things are stretched and squeezed to shape.

[jerryl]

Reviewers could really do us a favor by giving us some actual measurements. Door openings, Heighth of people. height of barrels etc.   I've seen many reviews of "G" scale items that look interesting, but no way of knowing if they would fit in my 20.3 RR.   Just give us the measurements & we'll decide what scale they are.

   Another pet pieve of mine is the number of scales in the hobby industry.  Some are so close to HO, O, or the many "G" scales but not close enough.  One of the larger RR manufacturers brought out some nice vehicles in 43 to 1 scale & selling them to O gaugers.  There are nice woodie wagons out there very reasonable in 82 to 1 scale...too big for HO.  Last & least are Hot Wheels & Matchbox which are " fit in the box scale"  Manufacturers would sell many more models to cross over byers if they could agree on a few standard scales, preferably based on model RR scales.....My bias    Jerry

[Anonymous]

I agree. However I also carry around with me a model engineer. If I spot an item of equipment that I think might be suitable, I use the engineer as measure. My sentiments "If it lokks right it is right".

Kevins a pretty smart guy....

I'm not. 

Back when I got into the  G hobby I seen some of the scale info but, it was simple for me, I like this engine and it looks good with these cars , thus I'm going to buy them.  As time and age goes on I have learned alot about scale / gauge and understand it,,,but the principle still applies.

This looks good with this and I like that!!!!heheheheheeh 

 

[jerryl]

   I made up a card that fits in my wallet. The card measures 5'11 in 20.3. average height for a grown male. On the other side I glued photocopies of 20.3  & HO scales, + about 3 1/2'' of a ruler. covered both sides with clear packing tape.  It's with me all the time & comes in handy at train shows & hardware stores.. Jerry

[vsmith]

Jerry havent you seen these?

Comes in most large scales, I have one for 1/20.3 and 1/22.5, they also make 1/24, 1/29 and 1/32.

http://www.thescalecard.com/

http://modelingmadness.com/scotts/accessories/scalecard.htm

 

 

[Anonymous]

Vic....my b-day was in Feb and Christmas is coming up.....hint....hint.......

[Rastun]

   I made up a card that fits in my wallet. The card measures 5'11 in 20.3. average height for a grown male. On the other side I glued photocopies of 20.3  & HO scales, + about 3 1/2'' of a ruler. covered both sides with clear packing tape.  It's with me all the time & comes in handy at train shows & hardware stores.. Jerry

 

Jerry,

That average height would also depend on the era you are modeling, 1880's to 1900's average grown male was only 5 foot 6 inches. Which could go along way in explaining why some of these old engines and buildings seem to be very cramped  or outof scale to us.

Jack 

[jerryl]

Yes, I've seen these cards, but my card has 20.3, HO & inches on one card & it didn't cost anything.    Jerry