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Lazy 8 RR

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  • Member since
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  • From: Tacoma, Wa USA
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Lazy 8 RR
Posted by zakowitz on Tuesday, March 20, 2007 2:49 AM

 Some fellow in one of the many forum postings I have read in the past month or so said, "Just lay some track and run some trains." So I have. Here are some photos of what I have done so far:

 

http://www.flickr.com/photos/7392037@N05/sets/72157600010787853/

 

The temporary road bed is old 1x4 cedar decking that I had laying around. I cut it the same length as the track pieces to be put down , and arranged the cedar pieces into the figure 8. Then I just plopped the Aristo-Craft track on top. The Cedar will all come out and be replaced with either one long trestle or gravel road bed.  

Man what a trip! I have a couple of 7.9% grades, if I am calculating that right. (3.75 inches/4ft). So this initial set up will be a short haul logging or mining operation. I hope to add a ground level yard, station, and long haul freight and passenger routes later this year. I will have my hands full for a while building the trestle and rocking the grades to each circle. Anyway it has been a blast!   "Jump right in and run some trains", has been good advice so far. Smile [:)]

 

                                   Regards,

                                                Zak  

Keep On Railroad'n..............

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Posted by John Busby on Tuesday, March 20, 2007 5:59 AM

Hi Zak

I think you need to try and ease the grades a bit if you can.

Looks like a good start take the time to enjoy what you have for a while and find its limitations the ones you can change and improve on while you work out whats next.

Don't forget to re use the key stones or what ever it is that's created those two circular beds as the line grows.

Borrow a few books on your chosen theme and throw a couple of buildings together or maybe a very utilitarian loggers ?? miners coach just to make sure the theme is what you want

You now have a bit of breathing space to smell the roses and experiment.

regards John

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Posted by zakowitz on Tuesday, March 20, 2007 8:10 AM

Thanks for the nice reply John,

    Great Idea about using the stones, and I am going to ease the grades also.

                                           Zak

Keep On Railroad'n..............

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Posted by Tom The Brat on Tuesday, March 20, 2007 8:29 AM

Nice start!

You'll want to ease those grades a little. It might help if you got the low point on the underneath line under the bridge and continued the grade through the corners and the upper straight.

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Posted by dwbeckett on Tuesday, March 20, 2007 12:26 PM
Food for thought, remove one layer of blocks on both planters and rase the lower section by one layer of blocks. That should give you a 4% or less grade. Hope that helps, BTY there is a excelent post on trestle bent buliding.  

The head is gray, hands don't work , back is weak, legs give out, eyes are gone, money go's and my wife still love's Me.

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Posted by ttrigg on Tuesday, March 20, 2007 7:53 PM
Zak:

There are quite a few of us who constantly tell folks, "Get track and go play in the dirt."  I am glad to see that you did just that.  Now as you play, you will start working out the different solutions to all those unforeseen problems.  

Like John said
 John Busby wrote:
  I think you need to try and ease the grades a bit if you can.

Looks like a good start take the time to enjoy what you have for a while and find its limitations the ones you can change and improve on while you work out what's next.

You now have a bit of breathing space to smell the roses and experiment. 


I would look into the idea of using those retaining wall stones (bricks) to elevate the entire GRR area,  maybe two stones tall, thus reducing the relative height of the two elevated flower beds, and cutting the grades by at least one half.

I could be mistaken, but it looks like you are working entirely with manufactured sectional track.  I would recommend going with more of the longer flex track (5 or 10 foot lengths [1.5 or 3 meter]).  Longer sections of track equate to fewer rail joints and lees probability of derailments caused by wheels "picking" an uneven joint.

Just do not be in too big a hurry to do anything.  Play with it and let it grow, you will get much more pleasure that way.

Tom Trigg

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Posted by zakowitz on Wednesday, March 21, 2007 10:12 AM

Wow....thanks for all the great tips you guys...I can't wait to get out and play in the dirt this weekend...raising the lower level with the landscaping brick and cutting the grade in half is a great idea!

                                                   Keep on Railroadin'

                                                              Zak

                                                             

Keep On Railroad'n..............

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Posted by dwbeckett on Thursday, March 22, 2007 10:58 AM
Glad the forum could help, dont forget to post new pictures as you go we all like to see progress even though we sometimes, I for one, don't make any ourselfs.

The head is gray, hands don't work , back is weak, legs give out, eyes are gone, money go's and my wife still love's Me.

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Posted by ttrigg on Thursday, March 22, 2007 8:18 PM
 dwbeckett wrote:
dont forget to post new pictures as you go we all like to see progress even though we sometimes, I for one, don't make any ourselfs.

YES!!!!!!  We love pictures!

Tom Trigg

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Posted by vsmith on Thursday, March 22, 2007 10:57 PM
Wow I thought I had planned some steep grades at 5%...yes, try to ease yer grades on down a bit.  nice start, keep us posted

   Have fun with your trains

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Posted by Ray Dunakin on Thursday, March 22, 2007 11:40 PM
Congrats on taking the first steps into the hobby!

 Visit www.raydunakin.com to see pics of the rugged and rocky In-ko-pah Railroad!
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Posted by spikejones52002 on Friday, March 23, 2007 7:46 AM

For crying out load. 90% of the replys I read is Criticism. Why didn't you do this or You should have done that.

You built something you liked. YOU are having fun.Sooner or later you might want to try something else. GO for it. When you see a problem You will have fun correcting it.

Right now Your pride and Joy is give you fun and relaxation and a lot of suspender stretching pride.

You took the first step to happiness pulling your hair out.

BLOW YOUR WHISTLE AND RING YOUr BELL

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Posted by John Busby on Friday, March 23, 2007 8:44 AM

Hi spikejones52002

Part of this thread and a previous one is that we where asked what to do and for our opinions 

We have now been shown what has been done our opinion was asked for those of us that know must let those that don't what we think there are no telepaths on this forum we cannot mind read either.

I have not seen one destructive criticism in any of the replies.

So with respect I request you apologize to the forum for the unpleasant tone of your message this is a forum for like minded hobbyists intent on enjoying our hobby and assisting those that asked for our opinion

This is not the houses of parliament or congress so we expect people to behave like gentlemen

with apologies to the rest of the forum for my tone

regards John

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Posted by RR Redneck on Friday, March 23, 2007 9:52 AM
Wow! Almost 8% grades. Sounds like you need a shay.

Lionel collector, stuck in an N scaler's modelling space.

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Posted by dwbeckett on Friday, March 23, 2007 10:22 AM
 zakowitz wrote:

Wow....thanks for all the great tips you guys...I can't wait to get out and play in the dirt this weekend...raising the lower level with the landscaping brick and cutting the grade in half is a great idea!

                                                   Keep on Railroadin'

                                                              Zak

                                                             

SPIKE

I for one agree with John WE ALL TRY to play nice and share our idea's when asked.  

The head is gray, hands don't work , back is weak, legs give out, eyes are gone, money go's and my wife still love's Me.

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Posted by zakowitz on Friday, March 23, 2007 5:00 PM

Hey Howdy Again,

 

        Thanks fellas for all the great ideas.  I am going to lesson the grades and add some sidings. I will post some more pics in another month or two for you guys to opine on. I enjoyed all of your comments. I am a noob at this and your advice is very much appreciated. :)        Regards...

 

                                           Zak 

Keep On Railroad'n..............

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Posted by John Busby on Saturday, March 24, 2007 4:02 AM

Hi Zak

Don't forget to let us know of any problems you find interesting solutions too 

If you get stuck with a problem we will try to assist

Just because we may have been in this game a bit longer doesn't mean we know everything and you might just have the solution for one of our problems.

As others have said "LOTS OF PICTURES PLEEEASE"

regards John

 

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Posted by spikejones52002 on Wednesday, March 28, 2007 9:28 AM

Appoligize for what?

TTRIG & DWBECKETT does not like his wall!

TOMBECKETT does not like how his grades run!!

JOHNBUSBY does not like the amount of grades!!!

Lazy 8 RRis running on what he constructed.

Why tear apart what he has when it works?

If you spend all of your time and money rebuilding what works. You will never have time to expand.

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Posted by John Busby on Wednesday, March 28, 2007 11:01 AM

Hi spike

How about we start with the first few words in your first message which automatically set the tone of your message as attacking and offensive in the extreme

I would suggest going in your garden set up a grade like in Zack's first message get a nice train say 10 box cars and a caboose LGB or Aristocraft or other US "G" scale manufacturer will do not a particularly large train now fit every car with solid metal Aristocraft wheels or heavier ones if you have them.

Get an 0-4-0 locomotive and drag that train up the hill without a rack rail or banking loco

A garden sized 0-4-0 should not have trouble with such a short train as described I can assure you it will not cope very well with a 7.5% grade change it to real steam and it will not get further than the length of the loco on that grade.

Its not HO indoor toys the cars are heavy and the recommended grade is about 3% the loco will not do it. 

I have built a garden railway I was fortunate to have people stop me making a few mistakes

Do you honestly expect me to sit silent when I see a potential problem and you should have read Zack's message properly and the previous thread he started

Now when you have done what I suggested and are prepared to be a gentleman and read and think before bashing those computor keys we might listen to what you have to say.

But if you want to use an attacking tone thats your problem

regards John

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Posted by Anonymous on Wednesday, March 28, 2007 11:12 AM
 spikejones52002 wrote:

If you spend all of your time and money rebuilding what works. You will never have time to expand.

Spike,

Real Rail Roads spend there money also rebuilding and redoing as some of us.

I can understand your point but if it is to help a person increase his/her engines life span, then yes I do agree with lowering the % of grade.

Unless you have so much money to buy new motors and engines, please by all means up the grade.

Normal high grade is 4%.

Spike, I feel it was a WOW factor they seen and helpful replys came after.

William

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Posted by dwbeckett on Wednesday, March 28, 2007 11:35 AM

SPIKE, Opion's are like a**hole's everyone has one. If you can't provied construtive input when asked then suht up. we ,at least I for one, don't care to blasted for replying to a request for input on OUR thougths on HOW TO do something.

TO THE REST OF THIS FORUM I appliogize comments above

Dave

The head is gray, hands don't work , back is weak, legs give out, eyes are gone, money go's and my wife still love's Me.

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Posted by vsmith on Wednesday, March 28, 2007 1:15 PM

Spike, so your saying we should say nothing till he strips the gears on his brand new loco?

If you look at the comments , every one of them has been supportive on getting started and praising of the gumption to get out their and get yer hands dirty.

Where comments have been made have almost exclusivley been regarding that one 8% grade.

Theirs a reason for that, those with experience know its a thing to avoid and are simply trying to inform Zak that he should raise the approaching rails to allow a reduction in the grade to someting more reasonable, its called ADVICE, not criticism. Its called Dont make the same mistakes WE'VE made Wink [;)]

Those with experience know from experience that very very steep grades like that are very limiting to what you can run, how much you can haul, and greatly increase wear and tear on the locomotive gearboxes not to mention the risk of the wieght of the train literally pushing the train down the grade and derailing, also going right into a very steep grade like this absolutly require a vertical transition easement, liiteraly track section bent to ramp up or down to give the train the ability to transition from grade to level without derailing. Very steep grades without these transitional easements might be OK for 2 axles locomotives, but anything larger or with pilot or trailing wheels in gaurenteed to derail without those transitions. I know because I have been torture testing my stock on a 5% grade test track planned for my insane pretzle of a layout. I will be using these easements at each grade transition.

Zak shows in his pics has plenty of room on his approach to make a gentler grade, so much that he likely will not require the vertical easments. Its ultimatly his choice to do it or not.

Big Smile [:D]

   Have fun with your trains

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Posted by tomgb on Wednesday, March 28, 2007 5:39 PM

Strange - I haven't made any comments on this topic at all. How come I get slammed for some comment about grades I never made?

 

Tom Beckett 

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Posted by Sweet Santa Fe on Wednesday, March 28, 2007 8:48 PM

I think what has been said here, should help all of us.  I've heard that a 4% grade is about the normal grade for any rr.  But then I'm new to all of this and have only one train.  But if you ask for someones opinion, you expect to get their honest answers.  That's what I would want.

 If I was making a long term mistake, I would want to know, so that I could correct it and not have the damage done to my engines.  Yes, I also think that you should be able to build exactly whatever you want to.  And add to it as you can.  

I do find the bold type and capital letters as yelling an opinion however.  Come on guy's, we are all here to share and help each other.  Lets try to keep it civil.

Just my humble opinion.

 

Melissa 

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Posted by John Busby on Thursday, March 29, 2007 6:30 AM

Hi Sweet Santa Fe

Haven't seen you post before so a belated BIGSign - Welcome [#welcome]

Generally speaking as I understand it writing in capitals is concidered to be yelling as far as Internet manners are concerned.

But we on this forum at least tend to try and ignore large bold type 

We got caught out by a genuine case of it has to be that big and bold so I can see what I am writing.

But as you have been unfortunate enough to see we will stand up when we feel it necessary.

Which train do you have? and what plans do you have for your railway

regards John

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Posted by S&G Rute of the Silver River on Thursday, March 29, 2007 9:35 AM
Great start, Sort of what I want to build (olny a little more complex) Just hope you don't have pets that consider that tressal a rubbing post! Love the name
"I'm as alive and awake as the dead without it" Patrick, Snoqualmie WA. Member of North West Railway Museum Caffinallics Anomus (Me)
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Posted by zakowitz on Thursday, March 29, 2007 2:03 PM

Holy cow!

   I never expected my little post to stir the pot like this....

   To answer John's question, I am running a LGB 2-4-0 at the moment. I have started to build the trestle bents and I will post a picture after I get them set. I will be raising the lower level up so the resulting grade should be around 4% or so...maybe even less. I will be expanding at the ground level with a yard and another strictly long haul route. I live in the NW (Tacoma, Wa) and the weather on my days off has not been very cooperative.

   I truly appreciate all of your comments. :)

 

                                             Zak

Keep On Railroad'n..............

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Posted by Sweet Santa Fe on Thursday, March 29, 2007 7:40 PM

John,

 I have a small train.  The engine is a 4 4 2 with two rolling stock and a caboose.  All in G scale.  I'm planning to add to it as I can. It's by Lionel. 

 I was just trying to calm down the situation, not get my self into a mess.  And if you must know, I have O scale and HO scale trains.  Is that considered good enough to be on the forum????

 

Melissa 

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Posted by John Busby on Friday, March 30, 2007 3:42 AM

Hi Zak

Don't worry about it, not your fault you did not set the cat amongst the pigeons

Hi Melissa

Hope I have not offended or caused you offence not my intent

Of course you are most welcome

And tipping a bucket of water on the fire is just what was needed.

My question on trains was to try and move things back to where they should be 

What is the Lionel "G" 4-4-2 like  I have heard mixed stories on them as to there reliability but have never been able to ask some one who has one what they are like

I recently acquired a Lionel 0-4-0 it seems to be OK

regards John

 

 

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Posted by Sweet Santa Fe on Friday, March 30, 2007 8:57 PM

John,

 No offense taken.  I sometimes get a little defensive as this seems to be a mans hobby.  I like my Lionel train.  It doesn't hop the track, as long as I make sure nothing is in the way.  It's big and heavy.  I especially like the way that it starts, stops, and goes in reverse.  It's easy to set up, and take down when necessary.

 

Melissa 

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