LGB Amfleet cars

[tmcc man]

I will be in Florida the Wednesday before Memorial Day, through the rest of the week. Are you going back down?

(By the way, I don't care about scale, but I am not going to bash other people's idea of "fun" in our hobby, as there may sometimes be too much criticism in the hobby. Maybe someday I will)

[Bucksco]

Colin,

I'll be in Florida until next week and then I return for the last week of the flower and garden festival so I don't think our paths will cross. Do make yourself known to the LGB folks at the display/demo area!

[tmcc man]

Jack, that's too bad. I am doing the Steam Up with my Dad, and is there a way I can meet some of the train guys before opening hours? By the way, I am going to email you an application form for our club. We had a very "heated" meeting yesterday, but all is well now. We are really trying to make it better now, because it was falling, but we brought it back up.

(PS, is there a way I could help run some stuff?)

[spodwo]

"If I had know LGB was building KIDS TOYS rather than SCALE MODELS I would have saved my money for a scale model! I may be just one, but I will be heard-I dont care if it falls on deaf ears, I want scale fidelity! "

How can you talk about scale fidelity then in Large Scale - you mention Aristocraft? They are generally 1:29 which is the wrong scale to gauge of track you are running on...measure the height of your Aristocraft and tell me how accurate it is...
As I said in another forum but when people get upset over fidelity to prototype and then ignore the 1:29 thing PLUS run them on track that is WAY to high profile for considered realism and stick HUGE couplers on the engine [and it goes on and on]....well then by their own admission - they have "compromised" the total experience kick of the model. It all goes down to this: what is the acceptable % of compromise that a Large Scale RR'er will accept? 1%? 2%? 5%? By accepting "fealty to the prototype" in 1:29 - you are already [more or less] accepting a 10 % fudge factor, yes?

Even the AMS fleet of 1:20.3 cars that are generally considered to be the best accurate bang for the buck built their gondola .2 of inch to high...

Regardless - if scale fidelity is your thing....and you like US Mainline stuff - you need to look to other manufacturers than Aristocraft or USA Trains or widen your track to 49.5 mm.

[RhB_HJ]

Pod,

Most of the US standard gauge following in Large Scale would be happy if - even if it's not to true scale - the mfgs could at least stick to 1:29. That has been accepted as the de facto compromise.
But hey, give us items that are consistent i.e. length, width, height are all in 1:29!

IMNSHO the scale cocktail that LGB serves up is a direct result of their past. If they would go with 1:29 like the others - Aristo USAT - it would show up their "models" from the past and recent past as what they are - not to scale!

If I read Jack Lynch's statement of "As close to 1:29 as I can get it" and then see the results, I draw two conclusions

either Jack can't measure all that accurately

or Jack's pull/influence at LGB/EPL is not quite enough to make sure we get 1:29 models uniform in length, width and height. If someone tells me the incorrect width and height are a result of R1 conformance - yes sure and pigs fly!

As the saying goes "It doesn't cost more to do it right!" [;)][:)][;)]

PS On the Flying Pigs, two years back on the way to Switzerland we had some time in Vancouver Airport. Well, wouldn't you know one of the souvenir/novelty shops had flying pigs (on a stick, no less) cruising around the ceiling. My immediate comment to my equal half was "Perfect gift for some politicians". Of course it was a toy, there are lots of those around! [;)][:D][;)]

[gtrainman1]

QUOTE: Originally posted by RhB_HJ




As the saying goes "It doesn't cost more to do it right!" [;)][:)][;)]

Sounds like a line from, well, never mind [:D][:D][:D]

[RhB_HJ]

Kenny,

I always find it very entertaining when you roll out English usage. As a rule it is a clear indication that there are no factual errors in whatever you take aim at; in which case one quibbles about word definition.

In my opinion it's a hoot since I read so many of your posts and articles to have a reasonably good idea how "well versed" you're in English.

BTW for those who have further quibbles with my translations, verbatim or otherwise, I would like to remind them that

QUOTE: The translations are not done in strict verbatim form but rather in a manner that conveys the meaning. Some expressions can simply not be translated, neither from German to English nor vice versa. In those cases we will substitute the closest expression that comes to mind. Also there are portions of the translations which refer to specific websites, anticipated release dates, actual release dates. All of these refer to the original text i.e. if release dates differ around the globe then the release dates mentioned are the ones which apply to Germany. Please keep in mind GARTENBAHNprofi is a German magazine, reflecting what happens in the German large scale scene.

Being as this is neither poetry nor prose, we refrain from struggling in search of the perfect phrasing and hope the translations will be of use. We appreciate your feedback and suggestions. Thank you!

Direct quote from our company website http://www.easternmountainmodels.com/eng/html/gartenbahnprofi.html

I'm the website author therefore I can assure you: that's how it is.
As a rule I find that the English speakers appreciate getting meaningful reviews, as a matter of fact some even ask for reprint rights for their club. A good indication that "things fit"!

Since you're so observant, did you see our ad on page 118 in the April GR with the slogan "North American or European...... our products and services fit!" [;)][:)][;)]

[gtrainman1]

HJ,
I think your confusing my post with Axles. I mention nothing about translation. I simply pointed out, the use of one word in a sentence, (rudimentary) and looked up the meaning of the word used in a sentence.

Thanks.

[RhB_HJ]

QUOTE: Originally posted by gtrainman1

HJ,
I think your confusing my post with Axles. I mention nothing about translation. I simply pointed out, the use of one word in a sentence, (rudimentary) and looked up the meaning of the word used in a sentence.

Thanks.

Kenny,

I'm not easily confused, least of all by posts I read. [;)][:)][;)]

[spodwo]

HJ - I know you didn't miss my point - the 1:29 manufacturers are not as 1:29 as everyone thinks....and even if you box it right with height, width, length - they still fall short on many details. Aristocraft consistently has the height wrong - pick on them for awhile lest we all think you have it in for LGB....[;)]

But in truth, I think the Genesis looks great as do the Amfleet cars. Let everyone pick and nit as they will. I just love people getting their kicks on this stuff and making sure that LGB is held "accountable" to "scale ethics".

[RhB_HJ]

QUOTE: Originally posted by spodwo


...................................
Aristocraft consistently has the height wrong - pick on them for awhile lest we all think you have it in for LGB....[;)]

But in truth, I think the Genesis looks great as do the Amfleet cars. Let everyone pick and nit as they will. I just love people getting their kicks on this stuff and making sure that LGB is held "accountable" to "scale ethics".

Pod,

That's possible, I just do the translating. [;)] But the review of three boxcars (Aristo, LGB, USAT) in this http://www.easternmountainmodels.com/pdf/3_05Pre.pdf sure gives pause for thought.

As you know I model Swiss RhB and prefer scale products to "hey, it's a nice paint finish, the rest is close enough" ware - all because of being in the smaller HOm scale and getting spoiled. And my work background tells me there's no reason for doing peculiar things with width and height, if you manage to get the length more or less correct.

Holding LGB "accountable" would be too much of a job; but if there are a few more people finding out that LGB is much more toy than model without going the "gotcha" route that Eric (The Rockmodeler) took, at least there's some benefit.

As a rule the "static" eminates from the same few who can't stand seeing LGB not judged by the pretty finish, but if, whatever they call a model, actually is a model. That's what makes me smile when some sign off with "proud member of RBB" - I assume that stands for Red Box Brigade.[:D][:D][:D]

Since I'm incurably intrigued with language I thought the "RBB" was a bit lopsided - RRBB as in Rabid Red Box Brigade would have a better visual balance. Of course it could also stand for "Rolf Richter's Blind Bunch". [;)][:)][;)] [:D][:D]

[gtrainman1]

Imagine that!
Flattery and jealousy all in the same post [:)]

[spodwo]

HJ - But it is just baiting....Large Scale will never be a purist model hobby. There are no 100% accurate North AM Largescale trains that I know of running out there in the great outdoors. I know there are some Euro companies that do wonderful stuff but don't know em and don't run em....

The only 100% accurate engine I know of come from Precision Models. And running them isn't a real consideration. Some have tried with poor results.

Even the Bachmann Spectrums have their compromises. Not as many as some, of course... you have greater accuracy with them but you always have to do elective surgery to work out some of the kinks [the 4-4-0's and 2-6-0's seemed to be the exception].

De Facto scale 1:29.? ..ya wouldn't know it if you went to the Aristocraft forum and listen to the ranting and raving about some of their engines from some.

USA trains is pushing the envelope on the most accurate for 1:29. But then again it IS 1:29.

MTH is doing the most it can do with fairly good accuracy AND the right scale for the mainline....The Challenger is very nice....but I find the boxcars lacking in detail. But then again - no tiny broken pieces. I love the flats and the tank cars...

But compromises abound. No one has to accept them and as always - no one has to buy them...

Regardless LGB does proclaim what it is on it's main website - and after reading that - I certainly wouldn't expect scale fidelity.

I just got aomeone asking if I would be interested in 15 LGB CB&Q coal hoppers. It is tempting to add them to the fleet. Detailed no...last forever? Yes. Hmmmm.....

[RhB_HJ]

QUOTE: Originally posted by spodwo

....Large Scale will never be a purist model hobby.

Pod,

Agreed.

Perhaps you missed this post in the thread :

QUOTE: "The model designer who can not replicate width, length and height in a consistent, uniform scale is an artist; namely a caricaturist" Hans-Joerg Mueller

That's it in a nut shell![;)][:)][;)]

[Bucksco]

I thought the point of the thread was to show pictures of LGB's new Amfleet cars.....[?]

[RhB_HJ]

Hi Jack,

Well, how about providing some information?

The prototype cars are 85 footers (85ft 4"/26009mm over the couplers), the LGB website lists length of 800mm; that comes to 1:32.5

What is the overall height and width of LGB Amfleet cars? Just curious. [;)][:)][;)]

For those interested in such matters here are the respective proto dimensions

Length over Couplers...............85'4"

Width.........................................10'6"

Height-Rail to Roof Top.........12'8"

Top of Rail to Step Level........17"

Top of Rail to Vestibule Floor.51 1/2"

(Above from http://www.trainweb.com/accommod/amfleet.html)

[spodwo]

Jack - that was what the original intent of the thread was. But you know forums. They start there and wing up here. At least we are not bringing up "Scrapple" here! [:D] Regardless - I certainly appreciate the early look at these and your efforts on the LGB Genesis.

HJ - these cars are long. IF you did them to scale - they would look ridiculous on any curve 10 foot or less [diameter] due to overhang. I have the same issue with my 21" in length KLine Ogauge cars. I run 81 inch diameter curves on my Ogauge layout - HUGE by most standards - and the overhang is noticeable. I wish I had bought the 18" versions. I don't want shelf queens.

Selective compression. MTH did it with there 1:32 cars which I was a little dissappointed in - I figure at 1:32 they could do the proto length but they felt that the selective compression makes them "look" better on curves. The vast number of people generally run 8 foot diameter track or smaller in Large Scale.

[RhB_HJ]

Pod,

I realize how they "do" those "artsy things". I will patiently wait 'til the Amfleet cars become available through the dealers, buy a coach style and measure.

I took one of Jack's pictures



cropped to size, enlarged and then measured from known dimensions - in this case height of track profile - did the calculation and hope that what finally comes from the factory is better than what interpolation indicated.

So now we wait and see.[;)][:)][;)]

For interesting twists and turns of threads and topics look no farther than the Genesis Review thread on several fora. [:)][:D][:)] Or for that matter any of the other threads where measurements collide with "artistic impressions".
Which was precisely the reason why I decided to generate my "infamous" comparison tables, [;)][:)] so far nobody told me "HJ, you didn't measure or calculate correctly". But there have been expressions of surprise at just how far off the scale mark certain things are.

[Bergie]

HJ, let's try to keep in mind that this forum is offered for those who are in pursuit of information regarding their hobby... yes, a hobby... not a matter of life and death.

Thanks for sharing the photos, Jack. I'm certain 99.9% of our readers appreciated your efforts.

Erik

[Anonymous]

When will the Lgb amfleet cars be in stores. I have ordered two just waiting to see when the will arrive i have already have the phase 3 engine and do they all have lights in them?     thank you in advance please get back to me as soon as possible 

[Anonymous]

When do these puppies get to be BOUGHT??  in other worlds, when do they get on store shelves?

 

Very nice!

Tom M.